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Big John's Trees

B

Born Loser

Member
are you running hot in the room/rez?

Im not a fan of chasing the ph around with up/down solutions either. Theres a sweet spot in there usually. a balance with the system. Check EC and maybe drop it and then see where the ph goes..
 
Big John

Big John

Member
delta9nxs said:
hey, it can only be the water, the nutrients, and the additives, of course as there is nothing else there to cause this.

something that you are putting in the res is not working well with something else.

i've just scanned your thread and don't see what your water is like. maybe i missed it but if you could list everything you are putting in the res it would help.

type of water, ro or tap with ppm.

nutrients at the concentration you are using.

and any additives including ph adjusters.

there is some kind of stimulation or antagonism going on.
Click to expand...

delta9nxs said:
hey, it can only be the water, the nutrients, and the additives, of course as there is nothing else there to cause this.

something that you are putting in the res is not working well with something else.

i've just scanned your thread and don't see what your water is like. maybe i missed it but if you could list everything you are putting in the res it would help.

type of water, ro or tap with ppm.

nutrients at the concentration you are using.

and any additives including ph adjusters.

there is some kind of stimulation or antagonism going on.
Click to expand...


Very clean tap water, 50µS or 25 ppm.

Veg + bloom 1 part nutrients ( http://www.hydroponic-research.com/our-products/ for guaranteed analysis)

Pro-tekt (potassium silicate)

Have been adding CaCO3 in small amounts (10ml of 20%CaCO3 at a time into a system that holds about 30 gal) to the control res to raise pH.

Started at EC of 1.2 mS. Let it fall to EC of 1.05 mS, to try and flatten out leaf claw. Too low?

pH was in the low 5s to high 4s most of the time.

I'm measuring with pH test drops and hydrion strips.
 
D

delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
Big John said:
Very clean tap water, 50µS or 25 ppm.

Veg + bloom 1 part nutrients ( http://www.hydroponic-research.com/our-products/ for guaranteed analysis)

Pro-tekt (potassium silicate)

Have been adding CaCO3 in small amounts (10ml of 20%CaCO3 at a time into a system that holds about 30 gal) to the control res to raise pH.

Started at EC of 1.2 mS. Let it fall to EC of 1.05 mS, to try and flatten out leaf claw. Too low?

pH was in the low 5s to high 4s most of the time.

I'm measuring with pH test drops and hydrion strips.
Click to expand...


john, i just checked out the link.

you have excellent water which is great but it also means little buffering capability.

which is not too bad if you are running a pure nitrate formula like jack's. this is because nitrate nitrogen tends to drive ph up slightly.

the ammonia, urea forms of nitrogen drive ph down fairly strongly.

the only formula your nutrient manufacturer shows has 1.5 % ammonia nitrogen.

but they also state that they have a ro formula.

maybe i missed it but i would like to see what their ro water formula looks like because that is probably the one you should use.

i bet it has no ammonium.

so you find yourself in the situation of having to add caco3 and or potassium silicate to drive ph back up.

but there is a tug of war going on all the time and you cannot stabilize the solution.

and the more stuff you put in the worse it gets until you have a display.

another thing is the price. it is much more expensive than jack's.

no matter what all the nutrient manufacturers say, there is no way to make a one size fits all formula.

this is because of differences in water quality from site to site.

greenhouse pro's don't generally use ro water because of the expense but they have a water analysis done and adjust the nutrient formula for their specific water.

no 2 water sources are the same.

with that beautifully clean water you have and jacks with no additives this wouldn't be happening.

other than the ammonia the formula looks pretty good. it is very similar to the one spurr was working on last year. i remember he had an ammonia component.

your tap water is so good that it's not typical. i used to let my ro filters get dirtier than that.

your nutrient formula looks to me like it is designed for what is probably the average tap water in the us, between 100 and maybe 150 ppm.

one thing to caution about is that the calcium level is high in relation to nitrogen you adding caco3 is only boosting that.

whenever you have to continuously adjust for ph something is wrong and cannot be made right. there is an intrinsic imbalance of some kind.
 
icdog

icdog

Member
I'm using advanced nutrients for the moment, free samples till I find a source for jacks. As long as I keep the ph up the plants are happy. Water is from the ac and dehumidifiers.
 
SecondAttempt

SecondAttempt

Active member
Been using jacks for about 6 weeks... 3 weeks veg, in my 3rd week of flower now... I've never had plants so nice... just my :2cents:
 
Big John

Big John

Member
delta9nxs said:
john, i just checked out the link.

you have excellent water which is great but it also means little buffering capability.

which is not too bad if you are running a pure nitrate formula like jack's. this is because nitrate nitrogen tends to drive ph up slightly.

the ammonia, urea forms of nitrogen drive ph down fairly strongly.

the only formula your nutrient manufacturer shows has 1.5 % ammonia nitrogen.

but they also state that they have a ro formula.

maybe i missed it but i would like to see what their ro water formula looks like because that is probably the one you should use.

i bet it has no ammonium.

so you find yourself in the situation of having to add caco3 and or potassium silicate to drive ph back up.

but there is a tug of war going on all the time and you cannot stabilize the solution.

and the more stuff you put in the worse it gets until you have a display.

another thing is the price. it is much more expensive than jack's.

no matter what all the nutrient manufacturers say, there is no way to make a one size fits all formula.

this is because of differences in water quality from site to site.

greenhouse pro's don't generally use ro water because of the expense but they have a water analysis done and adjust the nutrient formula for their specific water.

no 2 water sources are the same.

with that beautifully clean water you have and jacks with no additives this wouldn't be happening.

other than the ammonia the formula looks pretty good. it is very similar to the one spurr was working on last year. i remember he had an ammonia component.

your tap water is so good that it's not typical. i used to let my ro filters get dirtier than that.

your nutrient formula looks to me like it is designed for what is probably the average tap water in the us, between 100 and maybe 150 ppm.

one thing to caution about is that the calcium level is high in relation to nitrogen you adding caco3 is only boosting that.

whenever you have to continuously adjust for ph something is wrong and cannot be made right. there is an intrinsic imbalance of some kind.
Click to expand...

Thank you D9! I know, I'm a lucky son of a bitch to have tap water like this. It's good stuff!

I'm using the RO/Soft water formula, I'll snap a pic of the label and post it up when I get a chance.

For now though back to work! :)
 
Big John

Big John

Member
OK so I swapped to a new reservoir with all fresh solution in both tanks. I filled it at an EC of 1.24 mS, and the pH with just the nutes and water came out right in the 5.5 or so range. After a few days it seems the pH is holding steady!

Also D9 I checked the label and you were right. Calcium nitrite is the source for both calcium and nitrogen. There is ammonium molybdate but that's such a small amount I can't see it causing mass pH drop. The nutes tend to stay pretty stable with my tap at around 5.5 when it's just sitting in a reservoir or jug, for what it's worth.

The other plants still aren't affected, BD #4 has a few more leaves showing symptoms.

I'm thinking of a foliar feed tonight, going fairly light on everything and aiming to just hit the leaves as much as possible. I was thinking a bit of micronized soft rock phosphate, amino acids, magnesium sulfate, kelp, and fulvic acid. Any opinions?

And don't worry, I have not forgotten about the photo updates! I still have some photos of the whole garden taken at 28 days to post and I'll do another for day 35 coming up.
 
D

delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
i would still like to see that ro formula if you get a chance.

it could be a replacement for jack's for some people.
 
Big John

Big John

Member
delta9nxs said:
i would still like to see that ro formula if you get a chance.

it could be a replacement for jack's for some people.
Click to expand...
S2sf0SF.jpg


Here ya go man! Looks like I was mistaken, there is 1% ammoniacal nitrogen. My bad brother, I just scanned the derived from list real quick like last time around. I ain't too well versed in nutrient salts.

They also got a "dirty" formula now with extra organic crap in it. Probably not the thing for a recirculating system, but who knows?

I'm hesitant to recommend this stuff. I've grown great buds with it. But I know for a fact the formula has changed since the first time I bought a tub of it, yet the label remains exactly the same.

Maybe they changed some top secret unlisted ingredient. All I know is the company isn't very forthcoming when asked about that sort of thing.

I was looking into the jack's 5-12-26 + calcinit, it does sound good, and you can't beat the price! JR Peters says it buffers to 6-6.5 with RO water, which could work out real well for me.
 
D

DaveTheNewbie

i like the look of those nutes, i bet i cant get them in aus either :)
 
J

Jamorg13

Member
I like the cleanly look of the hardware cloth as a burn protector. I use bent up hoopty looking chicken wire, not so pretty...
 
Big John

Big John

Member
Jamorg13 said:
I like the cleanly look of the hardware cloth as a burn protector. I use bent up hoopty looking chicken wire, not so pretty...
Click to expand...

The hardware cloth does make it really easy to shape them! But whatever does the job and keeps you from getting those HID burns on the back of the neck right?
 
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