big plant ppk

[DHF]

I`m glad to still be gaining knowledge at this point in my life , and proud to say that I`ve always preached not chasing PH , but rather it drift slowly up as plants eat and PPM`s drop gradually.in a recirculating hydro setup.......now.....

This hybrid is an odd duck , but quite the amazing 1 since it`s "somewhere in the middle" of hydro and soiless setups , and thus why your advice to "re-learn" ppms and ph makes sense Bro......now....

My water supply will come from the lake via all the filtering from the inlet and pump up to the house , so my thing was always to mix rez`s a week ahead of needin em to allow the "buffering" before re-checkin em and turning the ball valve to release shit to the plants , and then ........

If re-adjustments were in order before the plants started usin em , I did so and then I was satisfied with knowin what the plants would receive till I got back a week later.......anyways.....

I`ll figure this shit out , and be proud for an auto fed self-sustained setup with 1 plant in a basement area surrounded by bare bulbs for major headies returns and minimal maintenance once dialed.....

Thanks again Bro.....Pm`s forthcoming.....

Peace.....Freds...........

 

[forkup]

Sounds like a plan d9. Low ph doesn't bother me either. When I ran coco dtw I set it to 5.2 and let it range upwards. I had better results than trying to keep it at 5.8. But in my current case you have to understand I was seeing ph dropping 7 points in 6 days with only 8 small clones in the system AND the displays. So there I was with a new untested system (at least by me) seeing rapid unexpected changes and the displays so I thought it best to ask advice. The plants may be starting to look a bit better, it's still a bit early to tell for sure. I'm still worried I may be poisoning them with my water even filtered after your first post yesterday. I'll let it ride several days then make a call. If I have to I'll get good water from elsewhere, load the system with it and see what effect that has. Thanks again for the advice and tech support

RVW what I did was thread 2" pvc with the 1/2" NTP tap stopping 2-3 threads short of running it in all the way. I glued in 1/2" cpvc male adapters with plumbers goop. The adapters have a 2" stub of 1/2" cpvc pipe to allow clamping the garden hose to. The outside diameter of the 1/2" cpv is 5/8", exactly the size of the garden hose we're using now. If I could do it all over I would not point the stubs up with a 90 degree spread between them leaning towards either side of the room. Instead I'd glue a 90 onto the end of the short stub of pipe so they point parallel to the main pipe run to allow my hosing to lay flatter on the floor. The 90 can be a street elbow so you can attach the hose or a regular 90 with another short stub of pipe glued into the end. OR you could just glue the adapters in from either side of the pipe instead of upwards like I did. Hope this description helps if you need more info or pix just ask.

Good luck on your headies run DHF!

Above all be safe!

 

[RipVanWeed]

Thanks Fork,

Think I got it now. I thought everything at Home Depot was pvc, just catching on to cpvc. Gonna go wander the aisles for awhile, I'll get back to you if I have more ?'s.

Peace

 

[Big John]

What's up ripvanweed? I've had some PH drop in turface ppks. The nutes I'm using buffer to about 5.5 with my tap water, but in the ppks it pulls it down low 5s and at times high 4s.

I think it has something to do with the acidity of the batch of turface you get. I have seen on garden web and here where some people get a batch of turface that tests out at 6.5. Mine came out really low, if I soak a cup of the turface straight from the bag in pH 7 water the water is at pH 4 after an hour. I washed the turface I'm running quite a bit and the above test put it at pH 4.5-5.

If you look at the turface mvp specs
( http://www.turface.com/sites/default/files/turface_mvp_sheet_6-12-13_0.pdf )
It's listed at pH 5.5+-1. So it's possible you just got some bags that were on the real low side of that like I did. The high CEC of turface may also have something to do with it.

Unfortunately I don't have a good solution for ya just yet. Right now I'm testing out some suggestions I got. I have been adding calcium carbonate (CaCO3) to the reservoir to raise the nutrient solution to around pH 6.5. The turface seems to buffer it right back down after a couple of floods. I've just tried adding enough CaCO3 to get the control res to 6.5, then adding CaCO3 to the bulk res to get it around 8. Now I will see if the continual add backs at pH8 will be enough to keep it up in the high 5s or so.

Next time I fill ppks I am going to run highly alkaline CaCO3 solution through the turface after washing to charge them.

 

[forkup]

I think you're on the right track because mine tests low also. My main rez went from 5.9 to 5.2 in 6 days time flooding every 2 hours. Your remedy is the path I'd be taking and in fact was until D9s last post however I think i'll just wait it out unless things start looking worse. I've had it in my head for a few weeks now that turface seemed to have nearly the same CEC requirements of coco and if that's the case the buffers will fill as time goes by on its own. After this run and the experience it gives me with the system I'll feel better about testing new ideas. I have 3 ppks loaded in my veg room in line to start a perpetual system. When I stick in this weeks plant I may precharge it.

I also have a clone in 1 ppk trying out D9s new cloning method. Surprisingly to me the clone did not wilt under the glare of a 600 watt bulb at about 18 inches. It's been in 4 days now and if it roots successfully it will save me time and simplify my op. Chalk up another point for D9s ingenuity!

 

[delta9nxs]

the first one is just to show the overall condition of the foliage on the plant about to go to flower.

#2 is an un-rooted clone taken 4 days earlier.

#3 is a rooting one taken 12 days ago. i put a smaller back up cutting in too but since i've yet to lose a cut doing this i'll probably stop doing that.

#4 is one at 20 days. obviously well rooted and growing fast. it is larger and better developed than my normal cuttings at transplant into these containers which means i have a head start on size in the same room by just changing technique. no transplant = no stalls. it will be very interesting to see how big this gets in the 6 weeks allotted from cutting to flowering.

last is just a large fan leaf from the first pic plant. again to show condition.

to anyone new reading this these three cuttings in the middle photos are the meristems taken from plants going to flower. 6 to 7 nodes. trimmed to the extent you see here. no dome. bottom 3" scarified and dipped for 15 seconds in a 10% dip n grow solution.

stuck in a finger hole to within about 1/2" from the bottom of the container.

they are less than 3 feet from a 1K hortilux in a cool tube and were also illuminated by 400 watts of daylight flo's, t-12's. the 1k runs 12 hours per day and the flo's 24/7.

the containers are being fully flooded every 90 minutes with a 600 ppm solution of jack's and calcinit at .666.

24 hour temp spread of 80-88f and a rh range of 65-75%.

nutrient solution temp 82-84f.

no ph adjusters using new turface mvp screened to approx 33% air porosity and thoroughly washed.

tap water at 110 ppm on top of the jack's.

the turface, loaded in the containers, is cycled for about half a day before the cutting goes in.

since the cec of turface is rather moderate at about 33 meq/l. it is easily satisfied.

as you can see these plants are showing no symptoms of anything and therefore the ph is right, whatever it is.

i have been using turface for over 10 years and have never needed to treat it or do anything else to it other than the screening and washing.

you guys are still doing hydro think. you should, just one time, before you start treating it or anything else just load it, cycle it for a while without a plant, and then stick a plant in it and resist the urge to put anything else in that res.

no matter what the initial reading it will change on it's on in a few days.

and wherever it settles at, if the plants look good, leave it alone.

i am now effortlessly rooting cuttings in it. if you are having a problem it is most likely your water to blame and not the turface.

 

[DHF]

For all that don`t know about lower branches on bigger plants having/holding more "rooting" hormones , now yas do.....IOW.....

We got taught loooong ago that if yas took lower cuts even all the way up to 14-17 days after flip , scraped the skins lil bit after removing all nodes to be stuck in the 50/50 verm/perl mix , and then.....

Kept the nute solution semi - mild but with "lower" ph , that callouses and bumps formed a WHOLE lot faster and made it an easier transition into transplant/up-potting once foliage above container level started to form and blast off FTW.....

D9......Awesome shit my buddy.....love the lil hitch hiker on the side of the container waitin to be put into the mix once proper legs are grown, and it`s SOOOO easy ta wash off roots or not to up pot huh ?........anyways....

Peace....Freds...........

 

[delta9nxs]

hey, fred, these are actually the main stem as i top this plant every time i might as well use it rather than toss it but several of the first ones where from lower on the plant. i think you could stick anything in these and it would root.

the 20 day old one looked exactly like that first photo when i whacked it.

so that means that not only did it root in that time frame it also grew while rooting.

another interesting aspect to this cloning method that is going to become real popular with people observing strict plant count limits is that you could run with no mothers and yet maintain multiple strains.

in my current set up with 6 positions in veg and ten in flower harvesting once per week i would be capable of running 6 strains or any combination up to a total of 6.

 

[DHF]

hey, fred, these are actually the main stem as i top this plant every time i might as well use it rather than toss it but several of the first ones where from lower on the plant. i think you could stick anything in these and it would root.

the 20 day old one looked exactly like that first photo when i whacked it.

so that means that not only did it root in that time frame it also grew while rooting.

another interesting aspect to this cloning method that is going to become real popular with people observing strict plant count limits is that you could run with no mothers and yet maintain multiple strains.

in my current set up with 6 positions in veg and ten in flower harvesting once per week i would be capable of running 6 strains or any combination up to a total of 6.

Unless you`re not in medville , I think mom plants will become a thing of the past as long as there`s other specimens available from multiple sources in the future....

I love your wicking setup for rootin cuts Bro.....Me ?...I got taught to NEVER top a plant and use red solo cups with 50/50 verm/perl big cuts from lower branches scraped and rooted , then blasted with mega ppms and light to tits high and flipped per the krazy ass klown with regular flushes and I did it......and it worked.....anyways...

Glad you`re showin folks howta do it easier.....I slept a whole lot easier when I went to flip rooms side by side with ebb and flow buckets after Heath convinced me of the bulletproof setup for more plants with similar yields , but regardless.....

Your setup seems to be the epitome of maintenance free once dialed with all environmental equipment and feed setup in place , so as stated earlier , you`ll be getting pm`s cuz GF`s informed me that the "free" Pre-98 Bubba`s too strong and she`d like to see my old ass put up or shut up , and grow some dope.......sheesh.....

Women..........

Peace....Freds.........

 

[delta9nxs]

too strong? you better send it to me for the public's safety. i promise to destroy it.

 

[DHF]

too strong? you better send it to me for the public's safety. i promise to destroy it.

Trust me.....knocks her ass out if she hits more than couple bongs....Me ?....

Pre 98 Bubba is my go to for arthritis and insomnia meds till the day I die , and I`ve got the hookup from the left coast when the hell ever I run out , so I`ll grow somethin sativa-ish for the lightweight , but I`m lookin forward to some of Heath`s deep froze beans I`ve had hangin out too long.....anyways......

Bro.....Thanks for all you do , and I`ve got a feelin you'll get the chance to destroy some too strong FredsMeds some of these days one way or the other....bet on it.....

Got a bean or 2 up my sleeve from several different oldies and goldies.....

Peace.....Freds............

 

[Big John]

the first one is just to show the overall condition of the foliage on the plant about to go to flower.

#2 is an un-rooted clone taken 4 days earlier.

#3 is a rooting one taken 12 days ago. i put a smaller back up cutting in too but since i've yet to lose a cut doing this i'll probably stop doing that.

#4 is one at 20 days. obviously well rooted and growing fast. it is larger and better developed than my normal cuttings at transplant into these containers which means i have a head start on size in the same room by just changing technique. no transplant = no stalls. it will be very interesting to see how big this gets in the 6 weeks allotted from cutting to flowering.

last is just a large fan leaf from the first pic plant. again to show condition.

to anyone new reading this these three cuttings in the middle photos are the meristems taken from plants going to flower. 6 to 7 nodes. trimmed to the extent you see here. no dome. bottom 3" scarified and dipped for 15 seconds in a 10% dip n grow solution.

stuck in a finger hole to within about 1/2" from the bottom of the container.

they are less than 3 feet from a 1K hortilux in a cool tube and were also illuminated by 400 watts of daylight flo's, t-12's. the 1k runs 12 hours per day and the flo's 24/7.

the containers are being fully flooded every 90 minutes with a 600 ppm solution of jack's and calcinit at .666.

24 hour temp spread of 80-88f and a rh range of 65-75%.

nutrient solution temp 82-84f.

no ph adjusters using new turface mvp screened to approx 33% air porosity and thoroughly washed.

tap water at 110 ppm on top of the jack's.

the turface, loaded in the containers, is cycled for about half a day before the cutting goes in.

since the cec of turface is rather moderate at about 33 meq/l. it is easily satisfied.

as you can see these plants are showing no symptoms of anything and therefore the ph is right, whatever it is.

i have been using turface for over 10 years and have never needed to treat it or do anything else to it other than the screening and washing.

you guys are still doing hydro think. you should, just one time, before you start treating it or anything else just load it, cycle it for a while without a plant, and then stick a plant in it and resist the urge to put anything else in that res.

no matter what the initial reading it will change on it's on in a few days.

and wherever it settles at, if the plants look good, leave it alone.

i am now effortlessly rooting cuttings in it. if you are having a problem it is most likely your water to blame and not the turface.

I love where you are going with the cloning d9! I may copy your style yet again if you don't mind Not having to keep mothers would be great, and the vigor off of your plants going into flowering I think would be better than most mother plants anyways. Plus no additional cloning area or equipment? That's what I'm talking about!

I hear what you are saying about the pH. I may just be thinking on it too hard.

Maybe though different areas of the country turface is sourced differently, or just stored differently. I could see where at 6.2 pH it would work really well. But at 4.5 pH I think that could cause issues.

I don't have a really accurate way of testing it, I'm using drops, but I believe the turface mvp I have is very acidic.

At the moment I'm running into some deficiencies in one of my plants. Possibly self inflicted deficiencies

If any of you have a free moment pop on in to my thread! I could sure use the help

 

[delta9nxs]

I love where you are going with the cloning d9! I may copy your style yet again if you don't mind Not having to keep mothers would be great, and the vigor off of your plants going into flowering I think would be better than most mother plants anyways. Plus no additional cloning area or equipment? That's what I'm talking about!

I hear what you are saying about the pH. I may just be thinking on it too hard.

Maybe though different areas of the country turface is sourced differently, or just stored differently. I could see where at 6.2 pH it would work really well. But at 4.5 pH I think that could cause issues.

I don't have a really accurate way of testing it, I'm using drops, but I believe the turface mvp I have is very acidic.

At the moment I'm running into some deficiencies in one of my plants. Possibly self inflicted deficiencies

If any of you have a free moment pop on in to my thread! I could sure use the help

it's not the turface. the substance ph of turface is really not that important as it is almost inert after calcining.

i once took about 8 oz's of turface and washed it with tap water really well and then rinsed repeatedly with ro water to drive out tap water.

threw it into a quart jar and flooded it with ro water.

the whole thing tested initially at about 6 ppm if i remember correctly.

i left it in the jar for about 3 mos, shaking it whenever i walked by.

it never went above 30 ppm. that is so little that it is not worth compensating for.

and the ph did not change at all.

 

[flyer81]

So after reading most of the thread, here are my questions:

What does "precharging the medium" mean?

When it comes to volume reservoirs, you mentioned that you had 3 44 gallon brutes. Are these all tied into the same float pump? So, basically the volume reservoirs are continuously adding in water as the plants consume it? And it is just your primary reservoir (with the secondary tank/float valve inside of it) that is being used to flood the media containers?

I see that you are using vert lamps. Are there any issues here with using air cooled reflectors? I dont have the electrical capacity for an AC right now once everything is factored in.

And Im pretty sure I have this, but you are using a 2" PVC pipe for the flooding, and off of that you thread in 5/8" hose that then delivers the flood to the PPK units? Alternatively, you could run the large PVC into an electrical box configured with hose bibs that then go to each individual PPK unit?


And thank you, I really appreciate you pointing me to this thread. My weather is going to get hotter over the next 2 months and Im already at 82 deg while down to one flowering light. This gives a great alternative to battling the heat with AC and chillers.

 

[delta9nxs]

So after reading most of the thread, here are my questions:

What does "precharging the medium" mean?

When it comes to volume reservoirs, you mentioned that you had 3 44 gallon brutes. Are these all tied into the same float pump? So, basically the volume reservoirs are continuously adding in water as the plants consume it? And it is just your primary reservoir (with the secondary tank/float valve inside of it) that is being used to flood the media containers?

I see that you are using vert lamps. Are there any issues here with using air cooled reflectors? I dont have the electrical capacity for an AC right now once everything is factored in.

And Im pretty sure I have this, but you are using a 2" PVC pipe for the flooding, and off of that you thread in 5/8" hose that then delivers the flood to the PPK units? Alternatively, you could run the large PVC into an electrical box configured with hose bibs that then go to each individual PPK unit?


And thank you, I really appreciate you pointing me to this thread. My weather is going to get hotter over the next 2 months and Im already at 82 deg while down to one flowering light. This gives a great alternative to battling the heat with AC and chillers.

hey, flyer81, welcome to the asylum!

pre-charging is simply satisfying any cation exchange issues your choice of medium might have by running a bunch of nutrients through the medium before a plant goes in.

it is almost required in some media but not at all in others.

there is no float pump. the elevated volume tank or tanks gravity feed the float valve mechanism in the main res.

the main res then contains the pump, which is fired by a repeat cycle timer.

so the solution circulates between the plants and the main reservoir while being topped by the volume tank or tanks.

lights are your choice. use what you are comfortable with to start with, there are no constraints on either vertical or horizontal lighting.

what you see here in this thread is a veg system and a flower system just plumbed differently.

they do the same thing though.

in the flower room the 2" pipe in the center delivers the water and the 2" pipes along the walls drain it back to the reservoir.

in the veg room i run them off the electrical boxes instead basically because of room shape.

the 5/8" garden hose is used on both the input and the drains.

seriously, you should try a lights on temp of 86f with co2. it also decreases your need for cooling.

thanks for your interest and feel free to ask questions. if i'm not around there are a lot of qualified responders now.

d9

 

[gregor_mendel]

Sorry of this has already been answered, but has anyone tried other versions of Turface? Are they simply different particle sizes, or are they different composition?

I have a John Deere "nearby", but they seem to carry every version but MVP. I haven't asked, but I assume they can't order a single bag.

gregor mendel

 

[gregor_mendel]

After that question, I checked out all the spec sheets for Turface products. It looks like all the other products are much finer, and would have a near zero yield after screening. They are all the same composition, though.

 

[jason33]

ANY ONE TRY THE 420GS POTS WITH THE MOGUL IN THEM AND PIPE/ 420 MAKES THEM 5 GALLON POTS HOLDS 66 OZ OF WATER, ALSO CAN HOOK ALL 12 TO RESV.? ANY HELP????

 

[delta9nxs]

After that question, I checked out all the spec sheets for Turface products. It looks like all the other products are much finer, and would have a near zero yield after screening. They are all the same composition, though.

hey, gregor! how are you?

yes, the turface mvp or a product sold by turf care companies called "panera one".

the turface rep said they are exactly the same just branded different for distributors.

all the plants in this thread are in "panera one" except for one i have in the napa 8822 de.

the napa 8822 plant looks just like the turface plants. the napa stuff is a little softer than turface and can be crumbled in hand but doesn't break down any further during a grow.

the napa i think would not be a bad choice as a disposable medium.

i'm reusing all my turface now. it's actually faster for me to clean the roots out of a batch than to screen and wash a new bag.

which brings me to "axis playball". i got a pm about it and checked it out.

it is a premium ball field conditioner like turface but is all diatomaceous earth instead of clay.

it's water holding characteristics are better than turface and it is fired at 2000f, which would make it the highest fired particle out there.

i'm trying to get my hands on some for a test.

good to hear from you!

 

[delta9nxs]

ANY ONE TRY THE 420GS POTS WITH THE MOGUL IN THEM AND PIPE/ 420 MAKES THEM 5 GALLON POTS HOLDS 66 OZ OF WATER, ALSO CAN HOOK ALL 12 TO RESV.? ANY HELP????

hi, jason33!

i just looked at it and it's ok for hand watered apps but still won't grow a better plant than the ppk.

or a bigger, heavier plant.

they do not deal the perched water table adequately as there is not enough room physically for a proper "air gap".

they do not hold enough water for a big plant.

they do not hold enough water for most pumps to have enough operating depth.

they allow a lot of root material into the res.

they do not move gases around in the root zone as often as a ppk.

there are a number of engineering differences but you will produce more, if that's your goal, by building a ppk.