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best/complete environmental/atmospheric controls

B

babelfish

Member
So.. i'm in the early stages for my next grow, i'd like to be up and running in ~30 days. On the other hand, my bud is starting his new indoors as well. We both have one thing in common - a desire to control as many growing variables as possible.

Things to control:
  1. heat in room
  2. temp of water in rez
  3. humidity
  4. co2 levels
  5. air exchange (none - sealed room?)
  6. ???
  7. profit!!!

nutes aside, i'm having a hard time finding clear threads discussing all-in-one controllers, or setups that approach total control.

I'm sure there are several things that should be on that list that are not, such as PH, and so on.

If you were doing this from scratch, and had a few K to invest (NOT blow!) what controls/controllers would you invest in?

Price, longevity and precise/accurate instruments are all key considerations.
 
H

hvac guy

Active member
Depending on how large your setup is, a PLC with analog inputs and a good electrician can build you an all-in-one controller using PLCs, Siemens Simatic is ideal. I've built a few custom controllers that were more functional and easy to change programs with PLCs. The whole controller can be built into a loadcenter and panel to pass CEC or NEC.
 
Fresh Start

Fresh Start

Active member
hvac guy said:
Depending on how large your setup is, a PLC with analog inputs and a good electrician can build you an all-in-one controller using PLCs, Siemens Simatic is ideal. I've built a few custom controllers that were more functional and easy to change programs with PLCs. The whole controller can be built into a loadcenter and panel to pass CEC or NEC.
Click to expand...

You are on another level homie.
What is a PLC?
What is CEC and NEC?
When you say loadcenter do you mean thermostat included?
 
B

babelfish

Member
few things on my mind re. co2:
1. dangerous to do it @ 1500ppm in your closet when u sleep in the same room?
2. do these controllers really do small enough quantities of gas for something near a 3'x3'x7' or 2.5'x5'x7' space?
3. never worth doing in a tent?
 
O

overbudjet

Active member
Veteran
1.no (never sleep in same room,but i am in my growroom several hour per day and i am alive and kicking)
2.yes
3.no
 
O

OG_TGR

Member
My biggest issue with "all in one" controllers is that if one element fails, the whole unit has to be replaced. If this happens on a day that ends in "Y", this could be a problem.
If you construct something from individual elements, then you can replace them each on a case by case basis.
Frankly I think that tents, if they are well made and grow-specific tents, are some of the best units to utilize CO2 in. They are supposed to be sealed to accommodate this, it is a smaller volume than a room so there is less CO2 used and the smaller overall ft^3 makes the whole environment easier to fine tune. In past cases I've considered using several smaller tents in a larger room but decided to just build partitions, instead.
If you are thinking about going the PLC route, I think this is one of the very best ideas for those that aren't afraid of technology BUT, I think the very best way to do so is not with an off the shelf PLC but rather something more flexible like an Arduino based system. This way you have very, very flexible implementation options that can be specifically tailored to your needs.
 
B

babelfish

Member
overbudjet said:
1.no (never sleep in same room,but i am in my growroom several hour per day and i am alive and kicking)
2.yes
3.no
Click to expand...

I don't really have that choice right now to sleep in separate room. I could lower the ppm to say 1k to compensate maybe?

OG_TGR said:
My biggest issue with "all in one" controllers is that if one element fails, the whole unit has to be replaced. If this happens on a day that ends in "Y", this could be a problem.
If you construct something from individual elements, then you can replace them each on a case by case basis.
Frankly I think that tents, if they are well made and grow-specific tents, are some of the best units to utilize CO2 in. They are supposed to be sealed to accommodate this, it is a smaller volume than a room so there is less CO2 used and the smaller overall ft^3 makes the whole environment easier to fine tune. In past cases I've considered using several smaller tents in a larger room but decided to just build partitions, instead.
If you are thinking about going the PLC route, I think this is one of the very best ideas for those that aren't afraid of technology BUT, I think the very best way to do so is not with an off the shelf PLC but rather something more flexible like an Arduino based system. This way you have very, very flexible implementation options that can be specifically tailored to your needs.
Click to expand...

I can certainly appreciate the complications that the complexity of a controller provides, and the issues that come with it. but it also can allow for a more consistent central viewpoint - read more features. the Arduino based sounds interesting, i've viewed the thread here a few times, just looks a bit complicated. I suppose it can't be that
bad - and since I could build my own logic...

What kind of budget/time investment is involved making my own controller?

What tents have you used co2 in, or would you recommend a couple? ( eg. jardin, hydrohut silver, gorilla, etc) For now i'm just gonna patch this one I have, but with this CLW Solarstorm 400w light and no ventilation, my tent got to 91ºf - my a/c is only a single tube, so there's a chance for a 'hot exhaust' as long as its odor scrubbed that might not look too out of place from the outside. (temp/humidity release, high CO2 ppm release). I have at least a couple weeks before i'm flowering, so this is a good time :>
 
O

OG_TGR

Member
Making your own controller in the Arduino/Rasperry Pi platform could encompass time consideration anywhere from the time it takes you to receive a package to weeks or months; all depends on your own retention capabilities as well as knowing exactly what you want and sourcing the parts that you need to make that happen.
All of the parts and programs are out there, and the script is free. Beyond that your processor kit ($80-120) and your pH probe (~$60, cheaper if you are wiling to gamble....) are your greatest monetary expenditures. The rest can be pieced together and from there your investment is mainly time. (Raspberry Pi kits start ~$80)
Looking at similar systems that I have modeled the architecture for (but not yet implemented, to be completely honest) your budget will likely reflect <30-40% of what the same unit controls would cost you off the shelf.
The reason I would specifically recommend these platforms as opposed to PLC's is that by nature, the Arduino/Pi are purpose built to be user friendly. Any other available hardware/SW you will find is very much the opposite. Proprietary everything and little to no willingness on the manufacturers end to tell you how to "do it yourself".

Ever break the little seal on a CAP controller of any kind? The one that voids the warranty? You'd be surprised at what you find in there, and how you can reproduce it at somewhere like Home Depot for pennies. :)
 
O

OG_TGR

Member
Making your own controller in the Arduino/Rasperry Pi platform could encompass time consideration anywhere from the time it takes you to receive a package to weeks or months; all depends on your own retention capabilities as well as knowing exactly what you want and sourcing the parts that you need to make that happen.
All of the parts and programs are out there, and the script is free. Beyond that your processor kit ($80-120) and your pH probe (~$60, cheaper if you are wiling to gamble....) are your greatest monetary expenditures. The rest can be pieced together and from there your investment is mainly time. (Raspberry Pi kits start ~$80)
Looking at similar systems that I have modeled the architecture for (but not yet implemented, to be completely honest) your budget will likely reflect <30-40% of what the same unit controls would cost you off the shelf.
The reason I would specifically recommend these platforms as opposed to PLC's is that by nature, the Arduino/Pi are purpose built to be user friendly. Any other available hardware/SW you will find is very much the opposite. Proprietary everything and little to no willingness on the manufacturers end to tell you how to "do it yourself".

Ever break the little seal on a CAP controller of any kind? The one that voids the warranty? You'd be surprised at what you find in there, and how you can reproduce it at somewhere like Home Depot for pennies. :)
 
B

babelfish

Member
heh... doesn't surprise me. ok, i'm game to build my own controller, let me get the first round in the new box going and we'll build this up. i'm interested in a parts list if you could work one up?

<ps i need to spread rep around :/>
 
O

OG_TGR

Member
babelfish said:
heh... doesn't surprise me. ok, i'm game to build my own controller, let me get the first round in the new box going and we'll build this up. i'm interested in a parts list if you could work one up?

<ps i need to spread rep around :/>
Click to expand...
Haha ok cool, I should be able to get you something together in the next week or so. I am building something myself so I will keep track of what I do.
 
O

OG_TGR

Member
I haven't forgotten about you! haha. It's just taking much longer than I anticipated to get everything together that has to happen BEFORE I run the programming. I'll keep you posted!
 
Skyrancher

Skyrancher

Member
I've been looking at the growtronix...it has the ability to run all the things you want to control, but can control them in multiple rooms.

Overbudjet, thanks for posting...I haven't seem many reviews of the growtronix. I like the multi-room capability, but worry about a controller failure taking out the entire grow. If I'm not hi-jacking the thread, would you mind sharing your experience with the growtronix?

Another controller that gets good reviews is the iPonic 600. Check out this thread...

http://www.ehydroponics.com/?action=product&id=8765&cid=508
 
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