~Cannafornia Style~◆Area51~Kiddie Pool PPK◆VERT~Evolution~

[Born Loser]

Right on brother.
Don't know if Id like living/growing in a legal state. Im weird. LOL
I grew in Colorado for 10 yrs in an underground bunker. Wonder if the new owners know what they are sleeping on top of. As soon as I move, its legal. Go figure.
Spent the day here pulling wire, thinking too much...I did manage to get a stack of pools. Turns out they are dog pools, so the mutt got one. Going to do some vert trees in 2, and while they veg for ever, I will do a crop of autos next to them so I can have them all in the same room on 24/7.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...I love the corn! Im in lil Mexico in my town, might go get some.

Best to you.

 

[DamnUglyDogE]

Right on brother.
Don't know if Id like living/growing in a legal state. Im weird. LOL
I grew in Colorado for 10 yrs in an underground bunker. Wonder if the new owners know what they are sleeping on top of. As soon as I move, its legal. Go figure.
Spent the day here pulling wire, thinking too much...I did manage to get a stack of pools. Turns out they are dog pools, so the mutt got one. Going to do some vert trees in 2, and while they veg for ever, I will do a crop of autos next to them so I can have them all in the same room on 24/7.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...I love the corn! Im in lil Mexico in my town, might go get some.

Best to you.

Ya sound like good people,bro..
Glad ta know you...

How much would I love to be
re~flooring my floor in a new house
and find that...

View image in gallery​

Dude... I believe your the 1st
to jump in throw ya self a pool party...

This is going to make a killer down time show
for me and I suspect a few others would enjoy
watching someone else toss a little pool shin dig...

Rock on with ya bad self....

View image in gallery​

From the sounds of it...
I will be Vegging right behind ya as I
will only be chill for a couple months or maybe less..lol
Gots a big season coming up and it's
all about Pools (Take 2)...




Bet ya a dollar yours takes less than 7 days ta build....

Cant wait... Ya made my day... Almost sun down here and time to go be un~safe and insane...

Have a great time...
​

 

[DamnUglyDogE]

A new play ground for me...

A new play ground for me...

.

{~}Alien Dawg{~}~Evolution~Area51~ Wall~o~Jars~Smoken On & Bud Porn.{~}​

​

.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

i smoke about as much as born loser does.
But it made giving up the alkeyhole much much easier.
Im older than most of you kids here (maybe) and i used to drink amounts that would make most of you boggle (maybe)
Now i dont.

I think D9 said something similar at one point too ?

PS the querkle is fire for people that just want to relax/sleep/stop thinking but not be bored like some shit indicas so. It is a very enjoyable indica not a body stone bored indica. Plus done in 8 weeks makes sense

 

[DamnUglyDogE]

Hit the nail on the head dave. ..
Ya don't have to be a day to day smoker to Reep the rewards..

Everything has its place..
Short term use for a non smoker trying
To beat alcohol seems like medical MJ ta me. ..


Thanks for sharing the insite,bro. .


querkle just sounds like a nice balance
for what I have on deck. .
Need ta look into getting me some. ..

Peace. ..

 

[DamnUglyDogE]

What a kick azz 4th. .

Horizon ta horizon fireworks ..

Awesome...

 

[DHF]

What a kick azz 4th. .

Horizon ta horizon fireworks ..

Awesome...

Yes it was AD.....I did my "patriotic" duty and blew up all kinds of shit.....and STILL got more shit ta set ablaze......

Hope all had a killer day along with peace of mind and well being on the horizon for all`s afflictions and addictions.....Me ?....

Rehab`s for quitters.........Just kiddin.......Pot helped me quit cigarettes yrs ago , and even though I love my beer when I`m grillin and hittin bongs , all things in moderation`s always been my code to live by.......

Me and the GF MAYBE smoke an oz a month , and stay fuuuuucked up as we wanna be , but yas gotta be straight to make it in the real world as well......

Recreation and therapy has it`s place.....right ?......Take care and.....

Peace.....Freds..........

 

[SRGB]

Alien Dawg:

I like Turface with a little coco...
Though I haven't grown in it, yet...
Just sounds right(Too me)...


Hi, Alien Dawg.

We have experimented with coco coir mixed with calcined clay. We found that the mix might have become and remained saturated, especially if watered multiple times per 24 hour period.

We would probably mix either coco coir or calcined clay with a medium which drains well, i.e.g., perlite or pumice, to loosen the mix and to provide air channels for air flow through the media mix. Coco coir tends to have very fine particulate matter, and calcined clay also has a strong tendency to hold water for an extended period. Adding an amendment which permits aeration, and decreases the capacity of the medium to hold on to water within the media itself and vessel, might be an area of examiniation for the soilless gardener.

The calcined clay alone should work well.

Additionally, there is not necessarily a need for a wicking attachment to the vessel, due to the properties of the mix, mentioned above.

Not posting that the mix you have made will not work well for you. Only sharing what we found when mixing and experimenting with various soilless medium.

As an aside, we found that although scions do require water as they build roots, they tended to develop roots at a more rapid rate when the media had an equal amount of oxygen channels available, that is, damp to moist, but not `wet`.

We have posted some illustrations of a few experiments with different media mixes in our Soilless Gardening thread at our subforum.

In particular, post #3 depicts a roughly 80% calcined clay 20% fine pumice mix. There might actually have been slightly more clacined clay than 80%, perhaps 90%.

At post # 5 the exclusive (100%) medium was 1/4 - 1/8 inch pumice. No coco coir, or other water holding substrate. Those specimen were watered only once per 24 hour period, leaving only that moisture to be held in the crevices of the pumice for that span. Roots did not wither due to only being provided water (by simple pour of approximately 500ml into a 1 liter SRBGB) per 24 hour period. This observation, coupled with other data, brought us to the conclusion that plant roots generally were quite healthy and continued to grow under conditions of less than 100% contact with human observable moisture. Roots tended to grow into the air pockets which, to the human observer, did not contain much if any water, but, instead was an air channel.

In any event, your experiments with media might bring you to different conclusions. We made it a point to test extremes relevant to temperature and draught, to determine how much water a given specimen actually required to sustain root growth. In reducing the amount of water, and eliminating a predominantly water-holding media for some experimenrts, we found that the specimen did not require the previous amount of water provided, and in fact access to oxygen (or, air flow) provided avenues for root growth into media or outside of the SRBGB - where only air itself was present; at best, only moist or humid air - not full saturation of the media.

We hope that this post might be helpful.

Best,
/SRGB/

 

[DamnUglyDogE]

Yes it was AD.....I did my "patriotic" duty and blew up all kinds of shit.....and STILL got more shit ta set ablaze......

Hope all had a killer day along with peace of mind and well being on the horizon for all`s afflictions and addictions.....Me ?....

Rehab`s for quitters.........Just kiddin.......Pot helped me quit cigarettes yrs ago , and even though I love my beer when I`m grillin and hittin bongs , all things in moderation`s always been my code to live by.......

Me and the GF MAYBE smoke an oz a month , and stay fuuuuucked up as we wanna be , but yas gotta be straight to make it in the real world as well......

Recreation and therapy has it`s place.....right ?......Take care and.....

Peace.....Freds..........

Great Vibes as always DHF...

Ya words strike a few cords with me and gets the old noggen spinning...

I talk to my girl about becoming my grow bud and not having to smoke to enjoy growing this beautiful plant...

The more she looks and smells what's in the room.
The more you can see her thinking about jumping in and helping out....

Double edge sword im playing with... lol

I see myself taking a break soon, as life needs a little more of my attention than im giving at the moment.

I so need to quit smoking cigs...

Maybe I could roll a couple packs of weed cigs and quit that way...
Worth a shot...

Easier to take a break from weed than Cigs...

Funny how Vibes work... Thanks for taking the time....

​

 

[DamnUglyDogE]

Alien Dawg:

I like Turface with a little coco...
Though I haven't grown in it, yet...
Just sounds right(Too me)...


Hi, Alien Dawg.

We have experimented with coco coir mixed with calcined clay. We found that the mix might have become and remained saturated, especially if watered multiple times per 24 hour period.

We would probably mix either coco coir or calcined clay with a medium which drains well, i.e.g., perlite or pumice, to loosen the mix and to provide air channels for air flow through the media mix. Coco coir tends to have very fine particulate matter, and calcined clay also has a strong tendency to hold water for an extended period. Adding an amendment which permits aeration, and decreases the capacity of the medium to hold on to water within the media itself and vessel, might be an area of examination for the soil-less gardener.

The calcined clay alone should work well.

Additionally, there is not necessarily a need for a wicking attachment to the vessel, due to the properties of the mix, mentioned above.

Not posting that the mix you have made will not work well for you. Only sharing what we found when mixing and experimenting with various soil-less medium.

I find my pool #1 (calcined clay Un-screened yet washed)
mixed with just a touch perlite to be a solid mix with a
low volume pulse feeding scheduled at 1 minute per hour,20 times a day.
Given the type of manifold I have used.
I fear that some parts of the pool(plants) receive more feedings
than others...

I have yet to come up with a solid Idea on how to build a manifold
which will give me a even amount of volume per cycle as well as spread the feeding through out the pools evenly.

I've begun to see the medium in the pools as layers of different enviroment.
Top top inch of the medium having more air and dries out faster, where as the bottom stays moist and provides a feeding zone...

With out the tail pieces I fear the opposite would occur.
Where as per feeding the top would have the most moisture and the bottom stay dry with channels being formed and some medium receiving no moisture and drying out. (Dead zone)

This and. ...

If ever the pulse/flood feeding were to fail, the amount of time I would have to catch said failure would be hours versus days I have with tail pieces in place.

(Just my thoughts)

As an aside, we found that although scions do require water as they build roots, they tended to develop roots at a more rapid rate when the media had an equal amount of oxygen channels available, that is, damp to moist, but not `wet`.

This is my understand as well from what I have learned over the past few months and is my goal for root growth environment.

We have posted some illustrations of a few experiments with different media mixes in our Soil-less Gardening thread at our sub-forum.

In particular, post #3 depicts a roughly 80% calcined clay 20% fine pumice mix. There might actually have been slightly more calcined clay than 80%, perhaps 90%.

I imagine your calcined clay used is Screened and washed.

Have you in your experiences found this to been a needed step
as far as benefiting the plants in any way.

I have been happy with the results of simply placing the calcined clay in a large tote with many 1/16" holes and a screen on the bottom and washing for a good half a hour with a garden hose.

At post # 5 the exclusive (100%) medium was 1/4 - 1/8 inch pumice. No coco coir, or other water holding substrate. Those specimen were watered only once per 24 hour period, leaving only that moisture to be held in the crevices of the pumice for that span. Roots did not wither due to only being provided water (by simple pour of approximately 500ml into a 1 liter SRBGB) per 24 hour period. This observation, coupled with other data, brought us to the conclusion that plant roots generally were quite healthy and continued to grow under conditions of less than 100% contact with human observable moisture. Roots tended to grow into the air pockets which, to the human observer, did not contain much if any water, but, instead was an air channel.

Makes me think the humidity locked within said "air pockets" would allow for moisture and an environment that the roots would love.

Great observation...

In any event, your experiments with media might bring you to different conclusions. We made it a point to test extremes relevant to temperature and drought, to determine how much water a given specimen actually required to sustain root growth. In reducing the amount of water, and eliminating a predominantly water-holding media for some experiments, we found that the specimen did not require the previous amount of water provided, and in fact access to oxygen (or, air flow) provided avenues for root growth into media or outside of the SRBGB - where only air itself was present; at best, only moist or humid air - not full saturation of the media.

We hope that this post might be helpful.

Best,
/SRGB/

I like IT...

Ya'll at SRBGB have been a true blessing to those of us that want to learn and understand what is happening in our grow and why.

I thank you very much for sharing
and your thoughts observations and opinions...

Pure Golden and Solid...​

AD...

 

[DamnUglyDogE]

Border Haze babies ...

View image in gallery​

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Sometimes it's hard to let go....lol

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[DamnUglyDogE]

In an attempt to stall the ladies, so as to give the male BATF time ta catch up.
I have had the lights off for 36 hours.
Flipped on at 50%power for 12 hours(day time) and
Will do 36 more hours of dark, starting tonight..


36
12
36

This will put me back on night runs.

The male is with BH in the closet with a 300w CFL
hanging next to it, still on 12/12..


I am hoping the pistils on the ladies will stay pure white long enough for me to apply pollen and seed them.

Fingers crossed...


Liking what I see. ..

View image in gallery​

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[Born Loser]

Killer close-ups.
I thought you were done for a while...LOL

 

[DamnUglyDogE]

Killer close-ups.
I thought you were done for a while...LOL

I'm just getting started...

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

Killer close-ups.
I thought you were done for a while...LOL

this boy doesnt stop !

 

[DamnUglyDogE]

View image in gallery​

View image in gallery​

Alien Dawg House! (New breeder plus testers)​

Come one~Come all




​

View image in gallery​

 

[DamnUglyDogE]

? for HL45....

When Ya have a free moment and a little space in that brain of yours.
I wonder what you opinion would be on the feasibility
of a 43" wide kiddie pool with 8 wicks sitting on 8 ~ 3.5 gallon buckets
Or 4 blue totes with a PPK system/pulse or flood feeding cycle.

Screened and washed to perfection calcined clay..

Being able to produce/support 3lb + trees ?

2 pools
3x 600w Vert BB
Layout:
OxOxO
O= Lights
x= Pools

Given the correct Veg time and training
do you think there is the root zone needed support a 3lb pulse tree ?

If you could imagine this happening...

Do you think one could grow 2 trees in one pool
say a foot to a foot and a half apart(same strain)
Growing both trees into one top canopy ?

Perhaps almost doubling the yield per pool to say 5lb +

Would stacked 600s be needed or would the extra wattage
only increase quality/yield a slight amount (less the 10%) ?

Any incite/thoughts from you
or others that care ta share,
would be much appreciated...

 

[SRGB]

Alien Dawg:

I find my pool #1 (calcined clay Un-screened yet washed)
mixed with just a touch perlite to be a solid mix with a
low volume pulse feeding scheduled at 1 minute per hour,20 times a day.
Given the type of manifold I have used.
I fear that some parts of the pool(plants) receive more feedings
than others...

I have yet to come up with a solid Idea on how to build a manifold
which will give me a even amount of volume per cycle as well as spread the feeding through out the pools evenly.

I've begun to see the medium in the pools as layers of different enviroment.
Top top inch of the medium having more air and dries out faster, where as the bottom stays moist and provides a feeding zone...

With out the tail pieces I fear the opposite would occur.
Where as per feeding the top would have the most moisture and the bottom stay dry with channels being formed and some medium receiving no moisture and drying out. (Dead zone)

This and. ...

If ever the pulse/flood feeding were to fail, the amount of time I would have to catch said failure would be hours versus days I have with tail pieces in place.

(Just my thoughts)





This is my understand as well from what I have learned over the past few months and is my goal for root growth environment.



I imagine your calcined clay used is Screened and washed.

Have you in your experiences found this to been a needed step
as far as benefiting the plants in any way.

I have been happy with the results of simply placing the calcined clay in a large tote with many 1/16" holes and a screen on the bottom and washing for a good half a hour with a garden hose.



Makes me think the humidity locked within said "air pockets" would allow for moisture and an environment that the roots would love.

Great observation...




I like IT...





Hi, Alien Dawg.

We did not screen the calcined clay.

Although we have experimented with actively recirculating systems using SRBGB`s, we found that pouring a pre-determined top-fed amount of water, approximately once per 24 hour period, was more than adequate moisture to sustain plant or tree health and to promote continued root growth. We did not find it necessary to feed more than once per 24 hour period, whether 1 liter or 20 gallon SRBGB. The approximate amount to feed would be determined by the approximate rate at which the external basin depleted the run-off from the previous top feed.

When we did experiment with actively recirculating methods, we found it much simpler to top feed on 24/7. We exchanged the entire system (pumps, feed lines, aeration lines, if any) frequently, to clean (prevent build up of solids inside of the feed lines and pump).

We did not find any distinct advantages with providing multiple watering per single 24 hour period. Though, each soilless gardener might prefer different methods of determining when to provide multiple watering per day.

Instead, we observed exactly how much the given specimen depleted the external basin per given period, and provided only that specific amount the following feed. Reducing over watering or under watering and virtually eliminating waste, nutrient reactiveness and pH fluctuations. The period could be extended to 48 hours, 72 hours, or more.

Spreading the moisture level `evenly` might be accomplished by finer particles of media, in general. It might be difficult to disperse liquids evenly across a lateral bed of substrate with either a single, or even two or three emitters.

Another option might be 1/4 inch soaker hose in a spiral covering entire top of the media.

We did not find an`even` dispersion to be either advantageous nor disadvantageous between either hand watering or actively recirculating.

What we found most advantageous was to attempt to accurately measure the rate at which a given specimen actually used the water provided - without any arbitrary predisposed, or fixed metrics about how much the specimen might use per measured period. Whether the water provided was 100 times per 24 hours, continuous per 24 period, or single application per 24 hour period; generally, a given specimen in a given environment can only process so much matter (i.e.g, water) per 24 hour (or, lengthier) period. There will either be a) draught (dry external basin), b) excess (saturated external basin), or c) thin film of moisture to only dampness in the external basin.

From observation of these dynamics - in the given garden (temperature, rh, vpd, air flow, etc.), it might be possible to provide only that amount of water that the given specimen would use over a given period. Such a system would tend to eliminate waste, over watering, under watering, nutrient reactiveness, pH instability, among other advantages. At least that is what our experiments suggested.

Interesting observation about different `layers` of roots. We too, observed similar phenomenon.

However, we did not find any `dead` zones. The top layer of roots naturally tended to become more calloused and rigid as they aged. It should be noted here that roots appear to be genetically `programmed` to grow downwards, or geotropic, gravity driven. In contrast, plant shoots tend to grow against gravity. Amazing how a plant or tree can uptake water, use its vascular system to create turgor pressure within its tissue, expel the uptaken water as vapor, and grow opposite to the force of gravity.

In any event, those more callous portions of the top portion of the root mass is the `oldest` portion of the root mass. Similar to the base of a trunk of a tree having the most girth. Root tips are the actively growing portion of the root system, not the oldest parts. Root tips tend to grow similar to how a human fingernail grows; adding tissue (cells) to the youngest part, the growing tips.

Still other portions of the root mass might tend to grow into surrounding air, instead of readily accessible water. There are illustrations of this in our subforum, at our SRBGB-Roots thread. Roots grew out of the top side walls of SRBGB`s, into `thin air`. Those roots did not navigate down through the media to the water source in the external basin, but instead bore through the side walls of the Square Root® Bag into only environmental air.

This led us to become aware of the fact that different portions of a given root mass might differentiate their cell structure to assimilate different elements the plants` physical composition might need at that stage of growth. Those roots that grew out of the sides of SRBGB`s sought air, not water. This might be an area of further examination be the soilless gardener. There are several illustrations of this at our subforum and site. In general, see SRBGB-Roots at #2.

Every portion of the root mass might not require constant contact with water to remain functional within the root system`s physiology; perhaps primarily those portions that have actively growing root tips. It might be more difficult to observe those root portions when the entire root system is within the media - save for periodically extracting samples of root systems from the bottom of containers - but possible. It might be simpler for the soilless gardener to observe root growth and health if the actively growing root tips are encouraged to grow into an external basin where the gardener could observe root health directly.

Our approach was to encourage the roots tissues to become the extended `wick` in the external basin. The advantages were visual observation of actual root health and growth; ability to migrate to other hybrid feed systems, further root growth into the external basin, or, preferably, larger media-filled SRBGB`s for further unrestricted root growth. For larger plants or trees we would utilize 1 liter, to either 5, 10 or 20 gallon SRBGB`s; without extraction `transplanting` or discarding any run-off as waste.

Due to low volume of water provided, the external basin was not required to be overly large; only enough width to fit a 20 gallon SRBGB, with approximately two to four inches on either side. The run-off from approximately 2 gallons of pour feed would accumulate to approximately 2 to 3 inches of depth in the external basin. The ideal external basin would only possess walls approximately 6 inches in height. That might accomplish three criteria which we came to find advantageous; 1) the shallow walls of the basin permitted environmental air flow to permeate the SRBGB`s; 2) prevented the soilless gardener from overwatering; and 3) allowed for the doubling of the volume of the run-off that would be uptaken ordinarily over 24 to 48 hours, if desired.

A large plant or tree, in a 20 gallon SRBGB, could deplete 1.9 gallons of top-fed, drained, and recovered effluent-as-nutrient within a 24-36 hours period with increased photons and steady higher temperature. Lowering light levels and cooling the garden might prolong the rate at which the run-off water wouldbe uptaken, along with other practices. In any event, we found that it might be possible to, at least to an appreciable degree, to utilize run-off as a static reservoir which might diminish at an exact rate which could be calculated, providing a continually fresh nutrient solution and reducing `waste` to near zero, save for evaporation.

Calcined clay, at least from our experiments, tended to become `dry` over the period of approximate one week. We did not find saturated, or `wet`, calcined clay to `dry out` within the span of 48-96 hours. A test of this process might be to actually allow a `test` portion of the system to dry out. Measure the data of the test and determine the exact rate at which moisture in your system diminishes. Without testing the rate of evaporation and, or, uptake in your garden and system, it might be difficult to determine the accurate state of the moisture level of substrate inside of a vessel. Perhaps permitting a section to `dry out` over a period of 2 to 3 days, then possibly extracting a sample of the media and roots from within the core of the vessel for examination of moisture content might reveal interesting data.

We preferred to employ an external shallow reservoir, or basin, which contained a constant source of water - outside of the media filled SRBGB. The roots themselves became the `wick` submerged in a shallow level of run-off from the initial top-feed (Drain To No Waste Methods and SRBGB-Roots threads for article, illustrations).




Alien Dawg:

Ya'll at SRBGB have been a true blessing to those of us that want to learn and understand what is happening in our grow and why.

I thank you very much for sharing
and your thoughts observations and opinions...

Pure Golden and Solid...​

AD...


Thanks. We hope that our posts might be helpful towards soilless gardening.

Kind regards,
/SRGB/

 

[high life 45]

? for HL45....

When Ya have a free moment and a little space in that brain of yours.
I wonder what you opinion would be on the feasibility
of a 43" wide kiddie pool with 8 wicks sitting on 8 ~ 3.5 gallon buckets
Or 4 blue totes with a PPK system/pulse or flood feeding cycle.

Screened and washed to perfection calcined clay..

Being able to produce/support 3lb + trees ?

2 pools
3x 600w Vert BB
Layout:
OxOxO
O= Lights
x= Pools

Given the correct Veg time and training
do you think there is the root zone needed support a 3lb pulse tree ?

If you could imagine this happening...

Do you think one could grow 2 trees in one pool
say a foot to a foot and a half apart(same strain)
Growing both trees into one top canopy ?

Perhaps almost doubling the yield per pool to say 5lb +

Would stacked 600s be needed or would the extra wattage
only increase quality/yield a slight amount (less the 10%) ?

Any incite/thoughts from you
or others that care ta share,
would be much appreciated...

Ok lets figure out what just we are trying to do here.

Is it a 3# tree your after, or lots of meds?

What is the sqft of your growing space? Are you going to do this in a tent?

 

[DamnUglyDogE]

Hi, Alien Dawg.

We did not screen the calcined clay.

Although we have experimented with actively recirculating systems using SRBGB`s, we found that pouring a pre-determined top-fed amount of water, approximately once per 24 hour period, was more than adequate moisture to sustain plant or tree health and to promote continued root growth. We did not find it necessary to feed more than once per 24 hour period, whether 1 liter or 20 gallon SRBGB. The approximate amount to feed would be determined by the approximate rate at which the external basin depleted the run-off from the previous top feed.

I thought you needed multiple feeds per 24 hours to achieve Hydroponic growth rates.(Bigger/faster)

Was there an increase of water uptake
once in full flower swelling ?

​

When we did experiment with actively recirculating methods, we found it much simpler to top feed on 24/7. We exchanged the entire system (pumps, feed lines, aeration lines, if any) frequently, to clean (prevent build up of solids inside of the feed lines and pump).

We did not find any distinct advantages with providing multiple watering per single 24 hour period. Though, each soil less gardener might prefer different methods of determining when to provide multiple watering per day.

I'm slightly surprised by the lack of difference in growth rates between multiple and singular feedings per 24 hours.

When I ran my smart pots in wave one. I found a good 30% + increase in growth rates once I added a regular pulse feeding versus hand fed once per day or 2.

The 2nd wave plants were much larger than the 1st wave and grew more what I would call "Hydro", though the 2nd wave also had a much easier time of it and had many advantages over wave 1.

Your observations on this subject is golden and gets me thinking I need to look more into this some more.

I wonder if the difference might be might have to do with
fabric versus solid walls
or
tail piece versus no tail piece

As far as what is termed hydroponic growth rates being faster than soil growth rates...

There's also the feeding used and strength of said feeding
as well as

I'm glad you have a forum for your work and I will have ta find the old note pad and come visit....

​

Instead, we observed exactly how much the given specimen depleted the external basin per given period, and provided only that specific amount the following feed. Reducing over watering or under watering and virtually eliminating waste, nutrient re activeness and pH fluctuations. The period could be extended to 48 hours, 72 hours, or more.

This is golden to me...
So simple... Measure the water used and reduce waste.
This tech could prove very useful to me in the coming years.

​

Spreading the moisture level `evenly` might be accomplished by finer particles of media, in general. It might be difficult to disperse liquids evenly across a lateral bed of substrate with either a single, or even two or three emitters.

Screened and washed CC..

Another option might be 1/4 inch soaker hose in a spiral covering entire top of the media.

Golden...​

We did not find an`even` dispersion to be either advantageous nor disadvantageous between either hand watering or actively recirculating.

What we found most advantageous was to attempt to accurately measure the rate at which a given specimen actually used the water provided - without any arbitrary predisposed, or fixed metrics about how much the specimen might use per measured period. Whether the water provided was 100 times per 24 hours, continuous per 24 period, or single application per 24 hour period; generally, a given specimen in a given environment can only process so much matter (i.e.g, water) per 24 hour (or, lengthier) period. There will either be a) drought (dry external basin), b) excess (saturated external basin), or c) thin film of moisture to only dampness in the external basin.

From observation of these dynamics - in the given garden (temperature, rh, vpd, air flow, etc.), it might be possible to provide only that amount of water that the given specimen would use over a given period. Such a system would tend to eliminate waste, over watering, under watering, nutrient re activeness, pH instability, among other advantages. At least that is what our experiments suggested.

This makes so much sense.
The ability to follow the pots uptake and adjust
accordingly would give one a few advantages
and a better ability to adjust feeding to a better degree...​

Interesting observation about different `layers` of roots. We too, observed similar phenomenon.

However, we did not find any `dead` zones. The top layer of roots naturally tended to become more calloused and rigid as they aged. It should be noted here that roots appear to be genetically `programmed` to grow downwards, or geotropic, gravity driven. In contrast, plant shoots tend to grow against gravity. Amazing how a plant or tree can uptake water, use its vascular system to create turgor pressure within its tissue, expel the up taken water as vapor, and grow opposite to the force of gravity.

View image in gallery

I plan to use this fact of nature
with my Kiddie pools to my advantage
in that if I have a pool with 8 tail pieces
spread evenly around the perimeter of the pool,
then place a single plant in the center of the pool.
The roots will grow straight down the spread
evenly in all directions the hopefully once they reach
the wicks and fill the bottom zone
they will travel upward and completely fill the medium
by the full swing swelling period of growth.

I think...lol
​

In any event, those more callous portions of the top portion of the root mass is the `oldest` portion of the root mass. Similar to the base of a trunk of a tree having the most girth. Root tips are the actively growing portion of the root system, not the oldest parts. Root tips tend to grow similar to how a human fingernail grows; adding tissue (cells) to the youngest part, the growing tips.

Still other portions of the root mass might tend to grow into surrounding air, instead of readily accessible water. There are illustrations of this in our subforum, at our SRBGB-Roots thread. Roots grew out of the top side walls of SRBGB`s, into `thin air`. Those roots did not navigate down through the media to the water source in the external basin, but instead bore through the side walls of the Square Root® Bag into only environmental air.

This led us to become aware of the fact that different portions of a given root mass might differentiate their cell structure to assimilate different elements the plants` physical composition might need at that stage of growth. Those roots that grew out of the sides of SRBGB`s sought air, not water. This might be an area of further examination be the soilless gardener. There are several illustrations of this at our subforum and site. In general, see SRBGB-Roots at #2.

Every portion of the root mass might not require constant contact with water to remain functional within the root system`s physiology; perhaps primarily those portions that have actively growing root tips. It might be more difficult to observe those root portions when the entire root system is within the media - save for periodically extracting samples of root systems from the bottom of containers - but possible. It might be simpler for the soilless gardener to observe root growth and health if the actively growing root tips are encouraged to grow into an external basin where the gardener could observe root health directly.

Stellar observations... I've noticed this same thing with my bonsai garden.

I take a tree and place it in a mound of dirt.
After 6 months I place that mound on a 3" bed of soild.
6 months later I wash the dirt from the mound(exsposing the roots to air.
They create a harden surface, yet the trees do quite well and the root live.
After another 4-6 months,
I fold the 3" root zone downwards and place into another 3" bed of solid...
6 months to 8 months later I go back and wash the soil from the root zone again.

I have some trees the stand on 8" of roots...
Ill have to take a picture for you...
​

Our approach was to encourage the roots tissues to become the extended `wick` in the external basin. The advantages were visual observation of actual root health and growth; ability to migrate to other hybrid feed systems, further root growth into the external basin, or, preferably, larger media-filled SRBGB`s for further unrestricted root growth. For larger plants or trees we would utilize 1 liter, to either 5, 10 or 20 gallon SRBGB`s; without extraction `transplanting` or discarding any run-off as waste.

Due to low volume of water provided, the external basin was not required to be overly large; only enough width to fit a 20 gallon SRBGB, with approximately two to four inches on either side. The run-off from approximately 2 gallons of pour feed would accumulate to approximately 2 to 3 inches of depth in the external basin. The ideal external basin would only possess walls approximately 6 inches in height. That might accomplish three criteria which we came to find advantageous; 1) the shallow walls of the basin permitted environmental air flow to permeate the SRBGB`s; 2) pprevented the soil less gardener from over-watering; and 3) allowed for the doubling of the volume of the run-off that would be up taken ordinarily over 24 to 48 hours, if desired.

A large plant or tree, in a 20 gallon SRBGB, could deplete 1.9 gallons of top-fed, drained, and recovered effluent-as-nutrient within a 24-36 hours period with increased photons and steady higher temperature. Lowering light levels and cooling the garden might prolong the rate at which the run-off water would be up taken, along with other practices. In any event, we found that it might be possible to, at least to an appreciable degree, to utilize run-off as a static reservoir which might diminish at an exact rate which could be calculated, providing a continually fresh nutrient solution and reducing `waste` to near zero, save for evaporation.

One of the many advantages I see with SRBGB and
cant help but to see a SRBGB bag sitting in the center of a Kiddie pool half filled with CC and the bag filled with the same CC.
Sitting on a PPK system(of course) Being a great set up for growing
incredible trees.

The many ways you have experimented with your product is amazing
and inspiring to say the least.


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Calcined clay, at least from our experiments, tended to become `dry` over the period of approximate one week. We did not find saturated, or `wet`, calcined clay to `dry out` within the span of 48-96 hours. A test of this process might be to actually allow a `test` portion of the system to dry out. Measure the data of the test and determine the exact rate at which moisture in your system diminishes. Without testing the rate of evaporation and, or, uptake in your garden and system, it might be difficult to determine the accurate state of the moisture level of substrate inside of a vessel. Perhaps permitting a section to `dry out` over a period of 2 to 3 days, then possibly extracting a sample of the media and roots from within the core of the vessel for examination of moisture content might reveal interesting data.

This is information I have looked for and never found as well defined as you have just laid out...

Thank you SO much for this insight...
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We preferred to employ an external shallow reservoir, or basin, which contained a constant source of water - outside of the media filled SRBGB. The roots themselves became the `wick` submerged in a shallow level of run-off from the initial top-feed (Drain To No Waste Methods and SRBGB-Roots threads for article, illustrations).

This sounds so right on target as a great grow style in its self...
For me, this makes me wonder if instead of tail pieces threw the 8 holes in a K-pool it might be feasible to simply cover the holes with
screening and let the roots work as the wicking agent.

Things to ponder.... I love it....






Alien Dawg:

Ya'll at SRBGB have been a true blessing to those of us that want to learn and understand what is happening in our grow and why.

I thank you very much for sharing
and your thoughts observations and opinions...

Pure Golden and Solid...​

AD...


Thanks. We hope that our posts might be helpful towards soilless gardening.

Kind regards,
/SRGB/[/QUOTE]

I have to believe you help many a stranger in the crowd,
just as you have helped this stranger in the crowd over the past year...


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