Repoductive Systems & Breeding Plans - "Biological Foundations of Plant Breeding"

[bushweed]

And yet, despite having the most efficient breeding method in the world at your disposal, you somehow continue to concentrate all your efforts on the promotion of one single inbred Dutch strain - Positronics Skunk Haze...

And so we ask, where are all your strains derived from this most wonderful method?? And why are you so insecure about it that you have to run from thread to thread 24/7 shouting it out like a newly converted born again Christian??

Seriously, a breeding method that has one proponent with a handful of followers, but not one example of success to demonstrate proof of efficacy??

Like with most things you say Tom, if you apply even the merest amount of scrutiny to it, we find that the science just doesn't add up.

 

[M.R.GT]

no technique

kinda like this but stress works too.


Tom: "This system is an amalgam of the best of Allard and Mendel; I'm gonna soak my balls in Giberillic acid until atrophication & introversion, then I'll sit on Nevil's dick and take his seed back to Cali to produce the offspring (is it male or female? You mofos don't know?? - it's a fucken male!!), immerse his balls in giberillic acid, then take him/her back to Nevil for another round of King making, then back to Cali for the birth of our grandson, and then back and forth until I produce a 99% Nevil, and when the process is finally complete, I'll be the motherfucking King of Cannabis's great great great grandmother!!"


That has got to be the funniest shit ever. but true.

 

[M.R.GT]

here are some more cut and paste

here are some more cut and paste

Here is some cut and paste to support it.



) Sex – Attempts to breed offspring of only one sexual type have led to more misunderstanding than any otherfacet of Cannabis genetics. The discoveries of McPhee (1925) and Schaffner (1928) showed that pure sexual type and hermaphrodite conditions are inherited and that the percentage of sexual types could be altered by crossing with certain hermaphrodites. Since then it has generally been assumed by researchers and breeders that a cross between ANY unselected hermaphrodite plant and a pistillate seed-parent should result in a population of all pistillate offspring. This is not the case. In most cases, the offspring of hermaphrodite parents tend toward hermaphrodism, which is largely unfavorable for the production of Cannabis other than fiber hemp. This is not to say that there is no tendency for hermaphrodite crosses to alter sex ratios in the offspring. The accidental release of some pollen fro predominantly pistillate hermaphrodites, along with the complete eradication of nearly every staminate and staminate hermaphrodite plant may have led to a shift in sexual ratio in domestic populations of sinsemilla Cannabis. It is commonly observed that these strains tend toward 60% to 80% pistillate plants and a few pistillate hermaphrodites are not uncommon in these populations.
However, a cross can be made which will produce nearly all pistillate or staminate individuals. If the proper pistillate hermaphrodite plant is selected as the pollen parent and a pure pistillate plant is selected as the seed parent it is possible to produce an F1, and subsequent generations, of nearly all pistillate offspring. The proper pistillate hermaphrodite pollen-parent is one which has grown as a pure pistillate plant and at the end of the season, or under artificial environmental stress, begins to develop a very few staminate flowers. If pollen from these few staminate flowers forming on a pistillate plant is applied to a pure pistillate seed parent, the resulting F1 generation should be almost all pistillate with only a few pistillate hermaphrodites. This will also be the case if the selected pistillate hermaphrodite pollen source is selfed and bears its own seeds. Remember that a selfed hermaphrodite gives rise to more hermaphrodites, but a selfed pistillate plant that has given rise to a limited number of staminate flowers in response to environmental stresses should give rise to nearly all pistillate offspring. The F1 offspring may have a slight tendency to produce a few staminate flowers under further environmental stress and these are used to produce F2 seed. A monoecious strain produces 95+% plants with many pistillate and staminate flowers, but a dioecious strain produces 95+% pure pistillate or staminate plants. A plant from a dioecious strain with a few intersexual flowers is a pistillate or staminate hermaphrodite. Therefore, the difference between monoecism and hermaphrodism is one of degree, determined by genetics and environment.
Crosses may also be performed to produce nearly all staminate offspring. This is accomplished by crossing a pure staminate plant with a staminate plant that has produced a few pistillate flowers due to environmental stress, or selfing the latter plant. It is readily apparent that in the wild this is not a likely possibility. Very few staminate plants live long enough to produce pistillate flowers, and when this does happen the number of seeds produced is limited to the few pistillate flowers that occur. In the case of a pistillate hermaphrodite, it may produce only a few staminate flowers, but each of these may produce thou sands of pollen grains, any one of which may fertilize one of the plentiful pistillate flowers, producing a seed. This is another reason that natural Cannabis populations tend toward predominantly pistillate and pistillate hermaphrodite plants. Artificial hermaphrodites can be produced by hormone sprays, mutilation, and altered light cycles. These should prove most useful for fixing traits and sexual type. Drug strains are selected for strong dioecious tendencies. Some breeders select strains with a sex ratio more nearly approaching one than a strain with a high pistillate sex ratio. They believe this reduces the chances of pistillate plants turning hermaphrodite later in the season

 

[Tom Hill]

And yet, despite having the most efficient breeding method in the world at your disposal, you somehow continue to concentrate all your efforts on the promotion of one single inbred Dutch strain - Positronics Skunk Haze...

And so we ask, where are all your strains derived from this most wonderful method?? And why are you so insecure about it that you have to run from thread to thread 24/7 shouting it out like a newly converted born again Christian??

Seriously, a breeding method that has one proponent with a handful of followers, but not one example of success to demonstrate proof of efficacy??

Like with most things you say Tom, if you apply even the merest amount of scrutiny to it, we find that the science just doesn't add up.

I try to be a preservationist first and foremost, I can not see much choice amongst the majority of you. We are not talking about what I am doing, I will continue to preserve, and keep lines separated as best I can with just as broad as an approach as I can afford. I know what the fuck I am doing and can quite comfortably defend it, regardless of your understanding or expectations of it - that is all based on ignorance and is of no concern to me whatsoever. You will have a hard time saying the same with your current path if you bother to learn enough of the science to understand how to go about measuring such a thing. But you already know all of this inside of your heart too. It's why you bother me in Pm's, and try to poke at me from afar instead of busting out with anything substantial.

Re positronic. You still don't get it, it's not positronic Haze, it's Sam's, positronic did not breed it, Sam did, just like the skunk early (hand pollinated by the skunkman) he must have had them retailing there too, do you understand anything at all about the seed market? This is why you clowns can't find it in the positronic catalog, you moron. Mo betta you come to grips with why the alternative is so far from everything else in e existence than to lay your ignorant jive on me.

 

[Tom Hill]

"However, a cross can be made which will produce nearly all pistillate or staminate individuals." Not really man, not in the way you have spoke of before. Dramamine was baiting you. You haven't produced male lines by selfing males, and he and I know that.

 

[xmobotx]

is sam the skunkman still @ it?

 

[Tom Hill]

Do you still think about your first love?

 

[xmobotx]

well i m here poast'n about it eh?

 

[gloryoskie]

Sam should weigh in on this, just maybe.

There are more lines containing Tom and Sam's work out there than can be counted.

Thanks fellas. Proof is in the pudding.

 

[Tonygreen]

"However, a cross can be made which will produce nearly all pistillate or staminate individuals." Not really man, not in the way you have spoke of before. Dramamine was baiting you. You haven't produced male lines by selfing males, and he and I know that.

Yup we have learned you get girls too cuz boys are usually XY.

* Goes back to study my books

 

[Tom Hill]

Sam should weigh in on this, just maybe.

There are more lines containing Tom and Sam's work out there than can be counted.

Thanks fellas. Proof is in the pudding.

He has, and at last look he has disagreed with most of this, and is a staunch proponent of male/female selection methods. But you will not see him here arguing that they are not 3 times less efficient than methods having the advantage of reversal techniques. De Meijier ran with them with Sam's lines for sure, but Sam I imagine still retains a broader snapshot, both are key, both have immeasurable value and both are completely defendable. What is not, is what most folk are doing today.

 

[xmobotx]

like my little project for instance

it may not be commercially viable/i would have to lie about it to sell beans anyway ~though i could produce the end product w/ it {!}

& i am considering it 'school' because you apparently cant buy in to everything you read

 

[M.R.GT]

well I have stuck males away in closet and let them go forgotten. come back to find that he had developed female flowers. so for shit's and giggles jut let them go. sure enough it made seeds. well they couldn't be any good so I drop a few just to see. They are good, they grow and everyone has been male. I don't pretend to know the science behind nor do I care. it works, not every time but does work.

worked on Serious AK and Mota's Herijuana. Hermi or whatever you want to call it I still get a male when I need it and to me that all that matters .

I did make it clear that I didn't write that stuff. Hell Im just an old redneck. Im lucky to read it much less write it. all that chromosome stuff gives me a headache but if I ever get girl out of them I let you know and I will still be happy.

 

[Tom Hill]

XX x XX = 100% female.

XY x XY = 25% female, not 100% male.

 

[Tonygreen]

Will the YY males be viable? You should get XY males and YY males correct?
YY are rumored to be not viable... only from what little anecdotal evidence I can find. What would a YY male look like? Would it have any breeding value possibly or just an interesting way to complicate things?

 

[xmobotx]

i for 1 have been found wanting for a male from time to time ~hence my bizarre, sick, twisted project

so; a male dom herm pollinating itself could be an interesting aside {not sure if i can handle that perversion though}

anyway; the success of my particular project clearly and concisely disproves what would seem to be some pretty hefty concerns and; it also says something about breeders sending out feminised seed which has a high ratio of herm

it also doesnt look favorable for some of the cut/pasting going on in here

although i would state for clarity; progeny testing is important here as; in some cases; feminized seed projects will turn into hermaphrodite heaven

 

[Tom Hill]

Yeah let's rather say XY x XY = 25%-33.3% female as GitT might say. Stickshift has spoke of being interested in the "super male" (YY) project in the past I believe but I am unsure whether or not anything ever came of it. I never saw the point, intersex traits are clearly under the influence of autosomal activity imo. I see no point in increasing the percentage of males in such a small way except perhaps inside of marker assisted selection , it's not like they are females

 

[xmobotx]

yeah; when i joked about the 'perversion;' i was basically saying; 'not sure i would bother w/ that'

i m prejudiced against males

i just used to think best practice was to breed w/ males and avoid the lady-boys ~which was reinforced by my 1st herm-driven project! sure; i got females/just got about as many herms as i m getting females w/ this batch {no males though}

desperation is a funny thing though and i really liked the product of this bag-seed/hoped to get some seeds from it and my little mexican sativa was ready w/ her little staminate flowers as the only donor. How fortunate! {lol} i been eating the seeds from the herm {like it literally self'd itself} wonder if i should grow some of them out???

BTW; i would guess that what you are speaking out against {Tom} is homogenizing the gene pool i.e. multi-poly-hybrid pollen chucking? no?

 

[M.R.GT]

so 75% male 25% female. Works for me. I appreciate you clearing that up for me. That's a good probability since I've never popped more than 2 at a time.

I wasn't looking to make male seed they just kind of did it themselves. They have been handy at times. based on these ratios I may be inclined to pop a larger sample to see if a female shows up. All of the ones I have grown out have been good representations of the father. Sure help when I run clones and need pollen. Since I only make seeds for myself I don't think I will ruin the gene pool. Lot easier than long term storage of pollen.

So let's bounce this off of you. what would the probable outcome be if I found a female and crossed it to the male off spring. Just a standard male female ratio but with a higher chance of hermi tendency?

So is it possible to recreate a line from just the male side? Seems that it would create a genetic bottle neck.

If that's the case wish I had know this long ago. Been a couple of times where I only had a couple of beans from a strain only to be all males. lost sour bubble this way when BOG was under ground 5 for 5 males. back then I would have taken a hermi prone female opposed to nothing at all.

You guys are a hell of a lot smarter than me about this but I'm willing to learn so help an old redneck out.
This is all just for fun for me.

 

[stickshift]

Yeah let's rather say XY x XY = 25%-33.3% female as GitT might say. Stickshift has spoke of being interested in the "super male" (YY) project in the past I believe but I am unsure whether or not anything ever came of it. I never saw the point, intersex traits are clearly under the influence of autosomal activity imo. I see no point in increasing the percentage of males in such a small way except perhaps inside of marker assisted selection , it's not like they are females

Nothing much came of that tom, it was more to do with creating so called "true dioecious" lines... better to just find the XY dioecious with the marker and self that. If it was something one wished to do... (I'm more concerned with females, of all types ).. for the next few months I won't be able to do anything... I had to clear my shit out last night.. as I'm more or less being watched, fucking voyeurs, and as they say having my collar felt a whole lot too much... hence my pad is clean for their little visit... ****s

Ps: if people can.. always always back shit up.....