Everybody a breeder ?

[Tom Hill]

Yes I do understand, and it's like I tried to explain to you earlier, many folk understood these types of discussions when we played nice in the past, not you though. And believe it or not it seems many more understood this type a lot better, but not you though. I supposed next we might try speaking in Chinese or some such, but it seems to me that no matter our delivery, we'll be sitting here at the end of the day saying, "not you though", regarding you et al.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Don't bring that weak shit to Ma Tom Bos house...rejected.

It was a joke...and yes, I do know I have issues...they make me special and I like it.

 

[astartes]

it's super easy,a educated man would call it sophomoric.here's a example

A degree in clinical psych from Yale you say? Hmmm...Clearly indefinite articles weren't part of the curriculum.

a.

 

[Chimera]

The thread, I haven't read in any great detail; I simply don't have time these days to waste, but from my brief skimmings it seems to me like golden insights are few and far between.

I do have to point out though that seed creation is the default when growing dioecious cannabis from seed- it takes more care, attention, effort and supervision to ensure no seeds are produced, then it does to ensure seeds ARE produced. Once again it seems egos like to take credit for things the plants are want to do without our insight and efforts, so really can any of us be patting ourselves on the back for producing more seeds and wanting to be labeled with the term breeder?

To me, the stumbling point of all those decrying scientific selection and propagation methods, is that science is just another tool in the tool box of someone working with cannabis, and certainly does not preclude the use of any other tool or selection method- ie art, or "I personally like this plant'. Scientific methods can be used in conjunction with any other artful selection methodology, so in essence those that use science increase their power in their selections immensely. As was stated many pages ago, you can use a screwdriver to pound nails, or repeatedly score lines on 2x4's hoping you'll eventually cut through, but you'd be better off using a hammer for the nails and a saw for the wood. A mitre box and a handsaw will do the trick, but a compound mitre saw will allow you to do so many more complicated cuts in a short period of time, and whatever you are building will turn out better and in a shorter period of time when properly using the right tools for the job- that's simply a fact in my world. Yes, you can whittle the wood with your pocket knife, too, that also works, but it;s not as efficient for the task of building a house.

For me, this analogy is a a great one, because it holds true- using the right tools for the job makes getting the job done much more simple, but also provides a degree of accuracy you can't achieve when trying to whack nails with the handle of your saw. There are many ways to skin a cat, but when we're talking about creating cultivars with specific cannabinoid profiles, terpene profiles, resistances to fungi and other biotic factors within the environment, there simply is no debate on the matter; those who have educated themselves with the information, skills and methodologies to successful plant breeding, will be better equipped to meet the task, than those who have not- all other things being equal.

-Chimera

 

[GeorgeWBush]

Yes I do understand, and it's like I tried to explain to you earlier, many folk understood these types of discussions when we played nice in the past, not you though. And believe it or not it seems many more understood this type a lot better, but not you though. I supposed next we might try speaking in Chinese or some such, but it seems to me that no matter our delivery, we'll be sitting here at the end of the day saying, "not you though", regarding you et al.

speaking of "not you though"how do you not understand the discussions of the past are just that.discussions not reality not truth,discussions,debate's, two sides both with strength both with weakness.The very fact it is a discussion gives credence to those that oppose your particular view point and vice a versa.I admire and share your passion for this plant as do most here I presume I also respect your knowledge and acknowledge that you understand the science at a level greater than I. I'm saying simply that just because you don't understand the science doesn't make you a hack or any less capable of combining genetics,predicting expressions, or BREEDING quality seeds.

 

[GeorgeWBush]

A degree in clinical psych from Yale you say? Hmmm...Clearly indefinite articles weren't part of the curriculum.

a.

oh a test. no actually they were high school.but if you re read the part you didn't quote you'd see it is both a definite and indefinite article.The chem family being the definite and the lack of which particular chem family individual being the indefinite.

 

[purple_man]

shiat bro! you ain't sigmund freud, and even he, coked up as he was, would have stood up, walked towards you, bitchslapped you, walked away, and asked you to lay down on the couch and express your feelings... still, nice for chiming in and communicating your self fullfiling/realisational aspect aka 4th side of the message...

blessss

 

[astartes]

oh a test. no actually they were high school.but if you re read the part you didn't quote you'd see it is both a definite and indefinite article.The chem family being the definite and the lack of which particular chem family individual being the indefinite.

Would you like a shovel for that hole you're digging?

a.

 

[Tom Hill]

George,

The nature of recombination which occurs when sexually propagated, makes it nigh impossible to deliver what some consumers are expecting from drug cannabis seed. That's a fact, and why most utilize clones. Just like any other plant where the main value revolves around highly complex genetic combinations, strawberries, fruit trees, etc etc.

That professional breeders of outcrossing species by and large seek out homozygosity before proceeding to crossing, is a fact. That there is very good reason for this (prepotency) is fact.

That selfing will create homozygosity much more rapidly than 1:1 and beyond, is fact.

That genotyping by way of selfing is a very appropriate method to discover homozygosity is fact.

We are discussing facts, realities, truths here, not opinions. This is not a debate, that you do not understand the science and furthermore attempt to argue that there is no need to indeed makes you a hack, and yes less capable of successfully breeding anything. Now you can attempt to argue about that until you are blue in the face if you want, it will not make it any less so. If any of what you are saying were true, then there would have been no reason to have further developed our understanding of the science of plant breeding over the last 1000 years, but we have.

 

[GOT DANK]

Quote: NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT, HE WILL LOWER YOU TO HIS LEVEL AND BEAT YOU BY EXPERIENCE

 

[GeorgeWBush]

Well it was nice to see you post without insulting me for once,I'll let the hack comment slide.and I appreciate your perception of what this thread is really about but if all you are saying is true then why are the likes of greenhouse seeds the highest selling ? Why is it that cali connection put's out plants that other breeders use in their own projects ? or Raskal was able to create wifi ? Chimera said it best science is a tool.it's not the be all end all especially considering that some of the most sought after plants on earth are un-scientific genetic accidents which is also a fact.do you not agree it's rather arrogant to assume we will ever be able to understand the complexities of nature any more than nature want's us to ?

 

[stickshift]

speaking of "not you though"how do you not understand the discussions of the past are just that.discussions not reality not truth,discussions,debate's, two sides both with strength both with weakness.The very fact it is a discussion gives credence to those that oppose your particular view point and vice a versa.I admire and share your passion for this plant as do most here I presume I also respect your knowledge and acknowledge that you understand the science at a level greater than I. I'm saying simply that just because you don't understand the science doesn't make you a hack or any less capable of combining genetics,predicting expressions, or BREEDING quality seeds.

it makes you ignorant though, ignorant to bettering yourself through knowledge readily available and free! now why would you do that? if you find you don't understand stuff, then search deeper for the meanings.

 

[Tom Hill]

Likewise George on the lack of insults, I like to believe it's my default preference, but sometimes one must try new methods, and shake a few babies as hyb would say.

One of the things I am trying to do here is to educate people that some of the things you're bringing up are not un-scientific accidents at all, whether or not folk practicing it understand the science of it. Iow, some of the Chems, Og's, the White, etc etc have high breeding value due to their homozygosity. I want people be they neophyte breeders or consumers to understand this, and not chaulk it up to magic, or art etc. I think most understand a lot more about what's going on around us in nature than most did a thousand years ago, and I see no reason not to try and understand some more.

 

[stickshift]

I think most understand a lot more about what's going on around us in nature than most did a thousand years ago, and I see no reason not to try and understand some more.

bang! it's there for us to to utilise, so we damn well should for we are fools not to, ignorant ones thinking we know better and I've thought I've known better before but I've certainly been wrong.

 

[GeorgeWBush]

it makes you ignorant though, ignorant to bettering yourself through knowledge readily available and free! now why would you do that? if you find you don't understand stuff, then search deeper for the meanings.

i suppose you have a very thin point but you're forgetting that I would also have to agree that gaining this knowledge would be in fact useful to my betterment which I do not.in other words different strokes for different folks or one mans trash is another mans treasure yadayadayada.

 

[stickshift]

i suppose you have a very thin point but you're forgetting that I would also have to agree that gaining this knowledge would be in fact useful to my betterment which I do not.in other words different strokes for different folks or one mans trash is another mans treasure yadayadayada.

George,

it is up to yourself to remain ignorant, it is all laid out for you. Sometimes it's a thin line to continuous mediocrity, I'd sooner be equipped to get round that. that said it is your choice, I try to better myself as best I can.. each to their friggin own..

“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”

 

[GeorgeWBush]

Likewise George on the lack of insults, I like to believe it's my default preference, but sometimes one must try new methods, and shake a few babies as hyb would say.

One of the things I am trying to do here is to educate people that some of the things you're bringing up are not un-scientific accidents at all, whether or not folk practicing it understand the science of it. Iow, some of the Chems, Og's, the White, etc etc have high breeding value due to their homozygosity. I want people be they neophyte breeders or consumers to understand this, and not chaulk it up to magic, or art etc. I think most understand a lot more about what's going on around us in nature than most did a thousand years ago, and I see no reason not to try and understand some more.

I see what you're saying but also believe that in order for it not to be accidental it would have had to be intentional regardless of weather or not there is a logical scientific explanation.Sour Diesel for example is documented as being from the chem family, the result of a accidental pollination,years latter it is still one of the most sought after strains for people passionate about cannabis.It was even developed into a legitimate best selling seed line that has earned the respect of the community by someone who certainly did not fully understand the science behind what he was doing.

 

[GeorgeWBush]

George,

it is up to yourself to remain ignorant, it is all laid out for you. Sometimes it's a thin line to continuous mediocrity, I'd sooner be equipped to get round that. that said it is your choice, I try to better myself as best I can.. each to their friggin own..

“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”

I believe you said it yourself to each his own.my point is it's foolish to attach ignorance to a lack of interest.

 

[stickshift]

I believe you said it yourself to each his own.my point is it's foolish to attach ignorance to a lack of interest.

well apathy is lack of interest or concern, especially regarding matters of general importance. I just find it odd to even be in the thread if you have no interest.

 

[Tom Hill]

Hehe George we'll let you know if it's documented or not when we get those results in from the lab.

That these were accidents is not a good reason to give accidents by the clueless equal value to science, because it takes a lot more of this cluelessness added up to equal the same value as what occurs when we are not oblivious to the science.

It's that homozygosity was achieved due to numerous selfings in most of these cases, is what gave them their real value, is the point.