Undocumented?

[c-ray]

FE if you mix one cup soil mix with one cup distilled water shake for a minute what does it say for EC or ppm?

0.6-0.8 EC is a good range for peak flowering according to the Reams school

do this at a few soil depths in a few plants and report back please

 

[YosemiteSam]

Tainio says high pHs like that show an anion imbalance. My guess is the combo of silicate and possibly a little drying out on the surface causing some salt build up.

I would back way off on the silicate next grow...maybe a spray per month or something. I have personally never found silica easy to use.

 

[SeaMaiden]

I've used it, but always, always very judiciously. My tendency with all products is to begin at a much lower rate than what's recommended on the label, especially with products like silica. (Pest/disease Tx are a different matter, must be used according to label direx, not pertinent here.)

I have found also that when mixing almost any silica in a chem salt brew it's really easy to get precipitates/precipitation/floculation(?).

 

[c-ray]

force feeding silicates is probably not the best strategy for long term success in an organic garden, just a guess..

 

[MynameStitch]

I will take some time and read this whole thread, first off soil pH testers GOT TO GO they do NOT work and you can't trust it.
2nd do you have a lot of fans blowing on these plants?
Do you have any animals that go in there at all?

Where at is the most damage occurring what part of the plant?
How many plants affected, first answer those so I can go from there.

 

[MynameStitch]

Have you tried using just plain water and not your tap water, have you had your water tested, you your self?

Something is VERY odd here, because otherwise the plant is extremely healthy there is no other signs of stress either nutrient related or any other..... no tip problems.... nothing...... if there was too much copper you would see imbalances with other nutrients, there is not a hint of nutrients not being balanced... something else is going wrong, the plant is strong and what not..... has any stems broke at all? If so did you get a look at the inside of the stem/branch?

The leaves do they feel like a mixture of soft/rough or just rough? Cause the feel and condition of the leaves will tell you whats going on inside of the plant.... the tissue of the plant looks almost...... hmmmm............ the leaves that you showed on the microscope look almost like the damage was done external.... not internal. because if it was the tissue would be necrotic tan color and you would see like... it's hard to explain..... when damage done to the plant is done by the plant itself it shows different colors depending on the time and what caused it.... tan color is old but was done intentional by the plant using stored nutrients.... other coloration was caused by environmental damage done un intentionally meaning the plant did not do it to itself... I know it sounds weird.. but I don't know how to explain it any better..... nut like if you over feed the damage is done from the nutrients burning it and not the plant doing it to itself.

With this plant imo you see so signs of the plant doing anything intentional via using up stored nutes or damage done from something that was given to the plant.... the damage the plant shows looks like it was done from the outside and not inside..... my cat used to eat the hell out of my fan leaves and leave little pieces like that and the leaf would show no damage, because the plant was fine, nothing going on inside the leaf that caused it.... if there were signs the plant was doing it, there would be signs around the affected areas, you only see one leaf with outside damage.... the rest are green inside....... like it should be... so something else is going on external imo.

 

[MynameStitch]

Regular weekly foliar here are my foliars since january 4th
Jan4
calcium 25 followed instructions on container

Jan 5
Pure Protein Dry 15-1-1 9 grams per gallon
molasses 1tbsp per gallon, therm x70 .25tsp per gallon

jan 27
20ml fulvic acid(ful-power),1.25ml therm x70(yucca extract),1.5ml pro tekt per gallon

jan 29
Foliar fed with alfalfa enzyme tea a week ago CCootz recipe

you used all these foliar fed?

I just now read this after I posted.... I honestly think what ever is occuring is from you foliar feeding.... what causes that is not sure yet, but that is a HELL of a foliar feeding regimen...... then so close to watering after....

Here is what Ive watered with since jan 2 as I said before the only thing that is the same since last grow is the silicates and I saw this all over the plants.

Transplanted into beds 29th of december heavy water with AACT

January 3,
light watering humic acid protekt Si

scheduled January 15,
Day 17 watering, 50 gal 800 ml molasses, 65 ml Protekt, 350 ml kelp extract, 20 ml, Ej catalyst(for ph up), therm x 70 .25tsp per gallon , ph 6.5 exactly 55 gallons

Girls are growing fast drinking more often

scheduled January 19,
Water heavy, P silicate to PH up 30 ml per 55 gal, + Mosquito Dunks.

scheduled January 26, 2013
molasses 750 ml, protekt 60 ml, kelp extract 200 ml, ppd 1 tbsp per gal, ej catalyst 20 ml.
55 gallons

January 29, 2013
watered w 60 ml of pro tekt per 55 gal to balance the PH

Jan 31
Light water no additives cept ph up GH

February 4, 2013
watered w 800ml molasses, 300 ml fulvic, 120 ml ppd,27g ag sil, 40ml ph up= 6.4 ph
per 55 gal



thats a lot..... of mixture

 

[MynameStitch]

that mutating stalk ive seen on plants that grow fast.... but it almost looks like scar tissue.. like where the plant was weakened inside then fixed itself over and over again.... when a plant gets cracked or something happens stress wise it can get a buldge in it even if there is no visible cracks. Now one thing I do see, what did you use to cut the branches off the lower part of the plant, a clean blade by any chance or something that was not sanitized before using? Was what ever you used to cut off the lower part used on anything else or other plants?

 

[MynameStitch]

i forgot to mention too, that when bugs do damage to the plant they eat at a cellular level first then start munching down..... when bugs damage a leaf the plant responds and you will see like a "reaction" the plant has and in turn different colors where the damage is at...... I'm very bad at explaining things sometimes.... hope this helps you what I mean by "coloration" of the damage..... NOT saying bugs here did something... I'm using this as an example.

 

[FatherEarth]

I have found also that when mixing almost any silica in a chem salt brew it's really easy to get precipitates/precipitation/floculation(?).

I think this is where my answer may be. Kelp or Kelp extract contains a lot of salts correct? I mix Si with any and everything but this mix of kelp extract and si when watered on virgin plants that are sitting in composted ewc and perlite they have melting leaves if watered more than once with this mix.



Stitch Im writing a lengthy reply on my pc to copy and paste in, as Ive lost my response twice by my mouse going back one page, two times I and had to start over.

Thanks I appreciate the input.

With Respect,

FE

 

[SeaMaiden]

Father, I myself am not so sure it's Na/salts with regard to kelp, but possibly with what's used for extraction. Just as with leonardite, for example, the extraction or processes used to make a solution can use some harsh chemistry.

I still find the Si to be suspect and would follow the other suggestions here to reduce its use. I have seen some whonky shit with overusing kelp extracts, but more along the lines of weird leaf growth, and causing imbalances. I found a little dab'll do ya, so to speak.

 

[Coba]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]the damage the plant shows looks like it was done from the outside and not inside.[/FONT]

My sentiments exactly.

BTW welcome back! or whatever.

 

[thegambler]

I have a similar thing going on right now.......I'm guessing it's the Grotek Pro-Silicate. It's definitely not bugs. And the Protek is really the only NEW thing I've added to my grow. I never saw this problem before. Only at top of plants, and just a few of them right now.

 

[c-ray]

I have a similar thing going on right now.......I'm guessing it's the Grotek Pro-Silicate. It's definitely not bugs. And the Protek is really the only NEW thing I've added to my grow. I never saw this problem before. Only at top of plants, and just a few of them right now.

I'd be interested in seeing some more pics of your plants, looks like multiple deficiencies going on there..

I'm going to do a little research into the interaction between free silica and trace minerals.. would not be surprised if silica merely accelerates their uptake beyond what the soil > plant is able to supply..

 

[thegambler]

Most of the plants in the room are very healthy.....I think I have a Grape God grow report on IC if you look for it, with pictures. These pictures were taken thru Method Seven glasses to reduce yellow glare. By the way, I'm not using kelp, but I am using Protek Silica.

Here a few more pics:

 

[c-ray]

you're right those look good except for the obvious, just a weird colour in the first pic.. sorry and thanks for sharing..

 

[thegambler]

I found 2 other people with the same problem. Everyone used Pro-Tek Silica. No one shakes the bottle, which is supposed to be mixed well. People keep telling me bugs but I can't find any. I flushed well tonight, we'll see if they improve in a few days.......

 

[Coba]

I have a similar thing going on right now.......I'm guessing it's the Grotek Pro-Silicate. ... And the Protek is really the only NEW thing I've added to my grow. ... [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I am using Protek Silica.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Everyone used Pro-Tek Silica.[/FONT]

I'm confused, thegambler, which product are you using here.
this...

or this...

I ask because, here I see you've used silicates without issues. back in August of last year...

http://www.grotek.net/en/products/guide/msds/msds_prosilicat.pdf

http://www.dyna-gro.com/Website pdf Files/MSDS Pro-TeKt.pdf

according to the MSDS of both materials, they have the same ingredients except, the Grotek product has Potassium Chloride, where as the Dyna-gro product does not.

I use neither, but for clarification purposes, I've noticed there is a difference between the two products.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=5271742&postcount=20

 

[thegambler]

Sorry for the confusion.......We are all using Grotek Pro-Silicate.

 

[SeaMaiden]

I have a similar thing going on right now.......I'm guessing it's the Grotek Pro-Silicate. It's definitely not bugs. And the Protek is really the only NEW thing I've added to my grow. I never saw this problem before. Only at top of plants, and just a few of them right now.

Aha! Glad you found the thread.

I have the Pro-Tekt, it was what was reco'd on the UCDavis website for Si supplementation. My bottle has always had what sounds like sand or bits of glass on the bottom, I have never been able to get that fully into solution (the low temps where it's kept may be the problem, don't know).

Holy shit, Coba... good catch! K not playing nicely with the other nutes...! K can be very antagonistic, come to think of it.