help me pick a sativa please

[Terpene]

i still want to try running a long flowerer in my bio-buckets. i don't want to do it just to say 'I' did it. i want to try it because i like a challenge where the rewards are extremely worth it. if i manage to pull it off, great. maybe that will help others grow long flowerers indoors.
what are some of the reasons people say sativas grow best in soil?? is it because they are light feeders? do they like intense lighting or less intense? i can accomodate both in my tent. low ec levels are not a problem in bio-buckets. i've got a dimmable 1k ballast for adjustments to light intensity. i can even make my tent run anywehere from 3*f over ambient temps up to no heat being exhausted. i could even up the humidity, if need be

let me know some of the likes and dislikes of these long running sativas please

You're spot on, the closer you get to a pencil-thin-leaflet original landrace - the more nute finicky it is. If I were running a hydro setup, I would entirely forget about the pure hazes, they're going to claw on you from literally nothing, I can't even use non-ammended happy frog soil without em hating me. The thai haze crosses are going to be better suited to the nutrient slamming regiment of hydro. Soil is generally preferred for this reason, but like I said, even very mild soils can still burn some of these plants. Give you an idea, when I run pure purple haze again I'll be doing it with half inert soil (light warrior) and half happy frog to further mellow things out. Golden tiger and double thai will be more forgiving, but still, extremely low ec/ppm or they will hate you.

Light intensity isn't too much of an issue, but brighter is always better. Also, low temps help a great deal - I've found that while sats can take temps in the mid 80s, they're *much* happier at about 68-71 degrees. Humidity isn't so much of an issue, they don't get very dense and they have TONS of room between bud sites, so anything between 40%-70% works fine.

Height is a major issue with these girls. If you want any kind of yield, you'll need to veg them to where they have stems about the size of your index finger minimum. Plants with stems that size will be huge, so scrogging / very creative LST work are in your future. It's very do-able, but you will probably mutter to yourself "ok so where am I going to put this branch now?" at least a couple times.

Likes: the high is so different from anything you've smoked it'll blow your mind - and every sativa is TOTALLY different. Haze, thai, panama, malawi, etc all have totally different experiences. You will love the rabbit hole. Pure sativas have beautiful leaves and an elegant structure to them.

Dislikes: waiting 15-20+ weeks for smoke means the ultimate in patience. Plants don't respond well to bloom boosters or additional ferts and it will make the smoke taste bad, which hurts doubly after waiting so long.

 

[cravin morehead]

terpene- thank you! excellent answer... so from what i gather so far, it is possible, but will take major commitment and effort. check! i got those! as far as hydro slamming nutes, i feel like my system is a little gentler than slamming nutes. my main res is connected to a float valve which automatically tops off my res with pure water. so, throught each day, as the plants take in water/nutes, my system is diluting the nutes on its own. this may help, i don't know. but it is 1 reason why i feel like i may be able to pull this off. the way you need to cut your soils to make them less hot, is a little intimidating, sure. but i can only find out by trying. as far as boosters and such, i don't use them. i run only a 1 part nute that has been proven for years, Dynagrow. i may just need the bloom only. we'll see.
what are your thoughts on running 12/12 from rooted clone?? how well do these sats clone??

so far my list looks like this:
indoor possibilities:
gldn tiger
dbl thai
bangi haze
panama
congo

outdoor possiblities:
congo
zameldica
thai/hazes

keep the opinions and info coming,
thanks again guys,

cm

 

[Terpene]

what are your thoughts on running 12/12 from rooted clone?? how well do these sats clone??

so far my list looks like this:
indoor possibilities:
gldn tiger
dbl thai
bangi haze
panama
congo

outdoor possiblities:
congo
zameldica
thai/hazes

You're welcome sir. They clone very easily - typically 4-5 days for me. In fact I would go so far as to say that the hybridized ones are nearly impossible to kill. 12/12 from clone works, but they're going to shoot for the sky and the yield on these plants will be much lower than you're used to from the bred down commercial plants. These things want to be 20 feet tall in the wild, so sog-ish style growing is like flowering a newborn. Having the plant throw a bunch of branches will tend to keep them from rocketing straight up and force em to go out as well which somewhat diminishes the stretch, especially when you pull em down.

I wouldn't worry about outdoor versus indoor. I've run just about all the various extreme sats now under LED or CFL setups without problems, it's just a matter of laying em over, scrogging and tying em down. Oh, and spray em with a ton of water before you bend em into shape, they'll be MUCH more flexible and easier to work with.

 

[cravin morehead]

so, im thinking of starting them in the back corner bucket on the right. if i put the wire shelves in at the top of their posts, that would give me a 3'x 3' scrog screen about 12" above the top of the buckets. im thinking i'll try to train the plant to grow along in a circle tied to the posts. as branches and stretch come into play, i'll try to train them to fill the screen. what do you think??
i know its easier said than done, but i think i may have a pretty decent shot.

thanks again,

cm

for the tent, i'll stay away from the haze types. but i may try them OD.

 

[Terpene]

View Image

so, im thinking of starting them in the back corner bucket on the right. if i put the wire shelves in at the top of their posts, that would give me a 3'x 3' scrog screen about 12" above the top of the buckets. im thinking i'll try to train the plant to grow along in a circle tied to the posts. as branches and stretch come into play, i'll try to train them to fill the screen. what do you think??
i know its easier said than done, but i think i may have a pretty decent shot.

thanks again,

cm

for the tent, i'll stay away from the haze types. but i may try them OD.

That all should work nicely. Tomato cages make for great circular LST tools for veg, though I screen em and use em in flower as well. I find that having individual screens similar to what Verdant Green has done works for rotating plants, pics, etc.

Your HID lighting affords you more space and stretch than most scrogs, but the idea is the same. You'll see from the pics, CFL's are the biggest pain as they need to be in the first 12-18 inches, LED has a better penetration, 24-30 inches or so. Basically, be prepared to use wire ties to lay em down sideways a bit after they run through the screen, it'll flatten the canopy out a bit more. Here's a couple of all out sativas I've run in scrog form to give you an idea of your future..

CFL runs:

Hawaiian Snow

LED:
Zamaldelica

Green Haze x Thai left / Pure Purple Haze right

Same purple haze 3 months later

You can see what I mean about stretch with the pure hazes...

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

I had an Ace Panama that thrived in an ebb and flow using Maxibloom. She cloned easily and had a great crisp uplifting high. Since I grow under 400 watt ceramic metal halides the zone of penetration/proper lighting is shallow.

My plants are LSTed down to keep all the developing buds within a short vertical zone of illumination. I grow in coco in one gallon plastic pots with the plant fastened down to the rim of the container in a circular LST using binder clips. This worked great with the Panama (her sister was kinda crazy though) and also tamed a stretchy Kali Mist cut.

With your low head space and buckets I think that a circular LST on a wire cage could work very well. This product has caught my eye and I think it would be perfect for your scene.

Ebb & Gro Plant Cage

http://www.horticulturesource.com/a...-tiered-plant-cage-for-ebb-gro-system-p10629/


The cage could be cut in half to make two short cages for your low overhead situation. If that's too much plant for the vertical space you could cut it into four sections and just have one ring per bucket.

edit; Looking at your set up in your albums and with you using a 1K light you might do fine using these cages without any modification

 

[dubi]

i have never grown a mostly or pure sativa before. i am dying to do it though. i love and miss a real sativa high... i have been growing for 20 years, so i'm no newb. indoors i run a 1k bio-bucket system in a 4'x4' tent. i've got a/c and a chiller and my enviornment is pretty good and controllable. the issue with my tent is headroom. i have about 39" from top of buckets to glass on the hood. i can scrog in here, no problem. this bio-bucket system makes plants haul ass!
outdoors, i'm at 33*n in so cal about 15 miles from the ocean.

please help me pick an ACE sativa to try indoor or outdoor. one each would be great. so far i'm thinking dbl thai, golden tiger, or green haze x thai.

any info you guys could give me would be great! i appreciate your time with this...

thanks,

cm

Welcome cravin morehead

If your indoor room has height restrictions then i'd recommend you Bangi Haze, Nepal Jam or Orient Express. They are compact high yielding sativas (or sativa dominant hybrids in case of OE) that are easy to grow indoors and still provode that great old school sativa experience you are looking for.

For outdoor growing, if you want to try the closest possible to the old imported weed then i'd recommend you Oldtimer's haze, Purple Haze Thai, Green Haze Thai or Double Thai.

Malawi and Golden Tiger are also great but different (stronger and different profile) to the old imported sativas you were used to in north america. Or maybe Panama, best central american sativa line available that is closer to the old good colombian/panama sativas but improved for modern times and needs.

 

[cravin morehead]

shit!! i just typed for 15 minutes and lost it all!! so i'm going to be brief.

thanks for all your info guys!! i think for my first run with sativas in my tent, i'm going to use my big screen idea. i think that'll give me more room through the learning curve. runs after that, i'll probably buy those cages for the buckets. i think thoser would be good running indica hybrid types as well. thanks for the link.
terpene- nice cfl grow! thanks for all your info. i'll keep a heads up for the running colas...
crusader rabbit- what strength did you run your panama ebb & flow?? 1tsp/gal??
dubi- thanks very much for your advice on genetics! i think i've made up my mind.
indoor- bangi haze, nepal jam, and panama
outdoor-dbl thai, green haze thai, and panama
i'm going to order golden tiger as well.
i plan on ordering in about 2 weeks. it will be a couple months before i can do a run indoors of these. outdoor will start around april. when i do the indoor tent run, do you guys want to see it? if so, where?? in this Ace room or in indoor hydro??

thanks again for all your help/advice. keep the info coming. i need to learn all i can about growing pure sativas indoors.

thanks guys,

cm

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

I was running an E.C. of 1.2 (I think that's about 1/2 tsp) I've had issues with young plants and am now starting out at 0.4 then up it. If I was starting out with seeds I'd paid $$$ for I most certainly would start real low since killing my new genetics is a lot worse than not maximizing growth. First things first, get a mother you can clone then it doesn't matter if you kill some offspring.

I lost everything to fungus last summer and so now I'm restarting with with an assortment of seeds I made from a Kali Mist pollination so not to lose any new $$$ genetics if it happens again. My favorites of these were butchered for clones and are still in the veg room but the others are flowering now using an E.C of 0.8. It was interesting seeing how the offspring behaved. The Kali x Kali batch had many plants with issues. The Kali x Panama and Kali x Orient Express have grown like champs and not a single plant has gotten weird.

I quite enjoyed smoking Orient Express. Nice cerebral buzz. Reminded me of the Thai sticks we smoked in the mid seventies. It is a short stout plant. Even my Kali x O.E. hybrids are all short. I don't think the Chinese Yunnan parent they used to control height has the muddling mental effect that you get from Afghani indicas.

My try at Congo didn't work out but I think I just lost the genetic lottery with the surviving female from that pack of seeds. Some of the seeds that sprouted eventually died, maybe because I'm not growing in soil. I'll probably try again since I'm really interested in exploring the African strains. Looking forward to popping my Banghi Haze seeds.

 

[cravin morehead]

i agree with you, start out w/ low ec's and bring it up. are you talking .5 calibration?? i too had problems that forced me to start all new moms. i don't post all my grows and stuff, just ones i think are interesting for the community. your kali mist crosses sound great. man, i also miss that old kali-mist. i got some kali-most by MOD freebies recently. i popped one that turned out male, i got one a couple weeks old im hoping is a girlie. shes only 3"-4" tall but has got some nice thin bladed leaves and good light green color. we'll see. i may see OE in my genetics vault soon too. anything thats like the old thai sticks is gotta be great!! god i loved that bud!! i'm looking forward to exploring africa too. keep me posted on your BH run, would love to follow along bro.

thanks,
cm

 

[cravin morehead]

has anybody else run ACE sativas in hydro??
if so, please tell me about it...

thanks,

cm

 

[The Hatter]

I've spent hours upon hours reading through the Ace forums looking for grow tips etc. and to be honest I remember seeing very few people using hydro.

I know two people from the medical community who have attempted to do some pure hazes (not the hybrids) in hydro and both failed. Neither strain was by Ace but they were both very long flowering from what I remember. I've never seen or heard of a successful grow using it with a very long flowering tropical sativa. It doesn't mean that it is impossible, just very hard.

My advice is if you plan on hydro then go with a sativa that likes a lot of nutes.

 

[The Hatter]

I should add that by long flowering I am talking 16 weeks+. I've seen very successful hydro grows with the usual commercial hazes that go around like SSL and SLH etc. but they are all relatively short flowering sativa dominant hybrids rather than old school pure sativas.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

So if you want hydro then you'll have to accept a little taste of "Dutch" in your plants?

 

[MrSterling]

Ace Malawi melted my face. It was like that scene from "Raiders of the Lost Ark".

 

[mayan]

I have run Ace seeds in DWC hydro several years. ago. Worked fine. For the last few years, I've been using coco which I consider to be a passive-hydro and Ace has been - well - aces, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[swayzak]

help me pick a sativa please

I second Mayan's results. I ran zamal x haze in a dwc many years ago and it was fine. I have punta rosa in a hempy bucket style now using ghe nutes and it is a happy plant.

 

[cravin morehead]

hey guys- i really appreciate the responses.

hatter- thanks for sharing your research. i think its worth giving it a try. don't you? i mean, it'd be nice to have some long flowering sativa smoke in the off-season, i think so. do you have any links to the failed attempts? i would like to check em out.

crusader- trying to stay away from 'dutch' in my sativas. but if the smoke is right, don't care much on the lineage. i would rather not, but a little might be ok.

mr.sterling- is that why your covering your face in your avi?? i definitely want to try some malawi...

swayzak & mayan- got any links, pics, or info i can check out?? this is very good to know!! what nute strengths, training, etc...

thanks for the input guys. keep the info coming!!

cm

 

[3dDream]

i do hydro on a small scale and grow many sativas. You might want to prune, bend, and pinch until you see pistils. Or maybe even reduce the number of plants to give them more space. In my setup sativas are far more efficient with the light and nutes than anything. They never really stop growing. I keep them in smaller pots than I use for shorter flowering plants to keep them smaller.

i've grown ace panama a few times. She is lovely.

Best of luck!

panama




HOG

 

[dubi]

Of course, our strains can be grown in hydro systems.

I always recommend organic growing in soil to get the best terpene profile and healthier flowers from your plants .... anyway all our strains grow and flower well in hydro with the exception of the most tropical sativas like Oldtimer's Haze, Purple Haze Thai, Green Haze Thai etc ....