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OrganicOzarks
Awesome! Thanks!!!!
Awesome! Thanks!!!!
C
c-ray
ascorbic acid is probably a better choice for adjusting the pH down, just a guess..
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OrganicOzarks
What makes it better than citric? I don't know enough about either to make such a decision.
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OrganicOzarks
It seems ascorbic is synthetic where as citric is derived naturally.
Iirc the member, spurr, had posted on citric acid, and again iirc it can actually help chelate nutrients.
Really there is growing body of research pointing to organic amino acid chelation as being the future.
Here's a page I found on jhbiotech's website.
Really there is growing body of research pointing to organic amino acid chelation as being the future.
Here's a page I found on jhbiotech's website.
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c-ray
I've read a few people say vitamin C/ascorbic acid is supposed to be good in foliar sprays, supposed to help with Cu complexing it says..
perhaps there is a natural vitamin C product for t?
perhaps there is a natural vitamin C product for t?
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OrganicOzarks
Just read this
4. Organic Acids --
These compounds are one of two groups of compounds that are essential for the transportation and solubility of divalent elements (2 positive
charges: Zn++, Mn++, Fe++, Cu++) in plants. The organic acids can be called “anionic
or
ganic acids” because of their negative charge. One such popular organic acid in
agriculture is citric acid:
Although organic acids do not directly chelate monovalent elements, (single positive
charge: K+, Na+), they are associated in plant systems by loosely held ionic at
tractions.
In foliar applications, these anionic (negatively charged) organic acids play an
important role in converting cationic (positively charged) minerals into nonionic
(neutral) compounds for increased leaf penetration and movement into the plant.
Plants have the ability to manufacture many types of organic acids such as: citric,
malic, fumaric, succinic and others. Some of these acids are utilized to transport
minerals in the plant. Others are excreted from the roots to solublize and take
needed minerals into the plant system.
4. Organic Acids --
These compounds are one of two groups of compounds that are essential for the transportation and solubility of divalent elements (2 positive
charges: Zn++, Mn++, Fe++, Cu++) in plants. The organic acids can be called “anionic
or
ganic acids” because of their negative charge. One such popular organic acid in
agriculture is citric acid:
Although organic acids do not directly chelate monovalent elements, (single positive
charge: K+, Na+), they are associated in plant systems by loosely held ionic at
tractions.
In foliar applications, these anionic (negatively charged) organic acids play an
important role in converting cationic (positively charged) minerals into nonionic
(neutral) compounds for increased leaf penetration and movement into the plant.
Plants have the ability to manufacture many types of organic acids such as: citric,
malic, fumaric, succinic and others. Some of these acids are utilized to transport
minerals in the plant. Others are excreted from the roots to solublize and take
needed minerals into the plant system.
al-k-mist
Member
I would like to add my two cents, which may or may not count, or bee accepted
I use Kombucha as a remedy for PM, as well as a general health foliar once in a while
its got a low pH like vinegar does, i think they are a bit lower though, vinegar is like 2.8. dont know kombucha, but its acidic, and does no harm
I use Kombucha as a remedy for PM, as well as a general health foliar once in a while
its got a low pH like vinegar does, i think they are a bit lower though, vinegar is like 2.8. dont know kombucha, but its acidic, and does no harm
Plants produce C-vitamin so plants need it fore some thing and atleast we do when we eat it.
pH wise its more important to think of solubility fore the desired molecule/element that u want to deliver, like u mention divalent metals.
If u are doing it to boost Vit C then go ahead and pls report back your findings
But if u want to use it as chelating agent, fore divalent melal ions then amino acids are better.
Sugars also do the trick.
In my own foliar sprays i always keep pH below neutral because of mildew is supressed at acidic conditions
I think that seaweed give a rise in pH value ?
pH wise its more important to think of solubility fore the desired molecule/element that u want to deliver, like u mention divalent metals.
If u are doing it to boost Vit C then go ahead and pls report back your findings
But if u want to use it as chelating agent, fore divalent melal ions then amino acids are better.
Sugars also do the trick.
In my own foliar sprays i always keep pH below neutral because of mildew is supressed at acidic conditions
I think that seaweed give a rise in pH value ?
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SeaMaiden
This is what really popped out to me from Tom Hill's quote you posted, Father Earth:
Messin' around with ORP for a foliar is very interesting to me.
Tom Hill said:
Messin' around with ORP for a foliar is very interesting to me.
What "beneficials" is Tom trying to attract to stems and foilage?
Maybe I just don't get the point to any of this.. Can somebody explain to me what this is all about?
I have an orp meter and havent really used it much. Every time I make a mix and test it, its already in that range. . .
Sorry Neo I cant explain what beneficial you could attract to your leaves unless he means insects of some sort? As for Foliar feeding molasses, for me at least, it is to feed the plant. As far as the citric acid or ascorbic, best explanation Ive come across has to do with being able to make phosphorus water soluble and immediately available for uptake by plants.
Confusing isnt it!? Just a bunch of people running around with ridiculous meters testing crap that doesnt matter and pretending to be scientists. When all you gotta do is add seaweed and foraged chestnut berries and make your worm compost with horse radish and you wont need to do anything but add water. Throw your meters away! WahLaah>
FE
C
c-ray
the orp meters are supposed to be good for testing em brews
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c-ray
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SeaMaiden
I won't even begin to try to speak for Mr. Hill. What caught my attention was messing with ORP for foliars. ORP=oxidation reduction potential, and it's an equation/metric used quite a bit in another field I won't mention (yet, I seem to find myself being able to correlate so much, see so much technology and information crossing over it's almost unbelievable) with regard to O2 saturation levels in a water column, and it also has to do with maintaining other parameters, again won't get into it.
What gets me is that if you're raising ORP, you're also necessarily raising the available O2 level. It's almost counterintuitive to me, because plants need CO2 the way we need O2. Make sense?
What happens in conjunction with, in presence of the other stuff being used? What's really happening? That he uses H2O2 is no surprise, again, I'm very familiar with its use to increase DO levels in a water column for stressed organisms, but again, just as with O3, it's an oxidizer (oxidation reduction potential), just nowhere nearly as potent.
This is all stuff I've written a great deal about in another specialty area, this is why it caught my attention, always catches my attention when I see that crossover occurring. When Mr. Hill returns to the forum, if I remember to ask, I will be asking. He has other knowledge in other areas that I'm more interested in at this time, but I will try to remember to ask.
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OrganicOzarks
I did a spray this morning, and used the typical amount of citric that I have been using, and my ph dropped dramatically. The ph of my tea was 8, and the ph of my spray fell to the mid 5's. with literally just a pinch in a half gallon. I am going to start phing the liquid in a smaller container first, and then put it in my sprayer. I was shocked by how much it dropped with so little. A side note, the ph of my well water fluctuates through out the year. sometimes in the low 7's, and sometimes up around 8.
Thanks for the explanation! I see the disconnect with myself and the whole citrus spraying.. I have a different philosophy with my feeding. I place all the nutrients in the soil, let the nutrients cycle and give the plant the control to uptake what it needs, when it needs it. I worry more about my microbes and their environment. My foilars are all basically IPM/disease control But to each his/her own..
Nah.... Was just wondering. If I chased down every tom, dick and harry reasoning for their shananagins I go crazy...
Thanks Maiden...
What are you referring to? This is the organic section correct? Your tone seems to be of one that is turned off by the use of raw organic materials... Are you mocking someone or trying to be facetious? If you are its failing.. If you are not I apologize for the misunderstanding..
As far as scientists go.. I'll leave that stuff to MM. He one of the people I know who submits credible information with sound explanations with no BS. I trust him and his word... I read some where you use his info too? Correct?
My meter has been gone for a long time and my grows has major improvements from that one move alone...
Cool topic everyone. I learned a little bit and was also very interested in ph effects when foliar feeding. I'm now doing it in my grow. I thought it was to mimic a rain, with a bit of nutrient uptake. I have sprayed at 7.0. Will be reading more and look forward to my own results and others opinions.
