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winterizing

JColtrane

Member
Hey Rula, you're right, 42 µm and 73 µm isn't fine enough. Coffee filter papers tend to range from 10 to 30 µm but aren't standardized. The Whatman #1 filters that Gray Wolf and myself use are rated at 11 µm with a 98% retention efficiency. Anything finer isn't necessary, unless the lipids haven't been given sufficient time to fully agglomerate.

The temperature is important but so too is the duration of refrigeration. The temperature doesn't need to be lower than -20°C to get decent separation as such but a colder temperature does increase the level of separation aswel as the rate of separation. As the solution cools it reaches the cloud point or wax appearance temperature (WAT), which is the point at which the wax crystals first appear. If the temperature remains at this point, the crystals will continue to grow but may not accumulate enough mass to precipitate to the bottom. If the temperature of the solution continues to drop, longer chained waxes become insoluble and agglomerate readily with the crystals already present. The further the temperature drops, the larger the agglomerates become and the faster they precipitate to the bottom.

While the agglomerates will be smaller if chilled to -20°C rather than say -35°C, they will still precipitate to the bottom with time. It just requires more patience. Of the various scientific papers that I read during my research, the temperature ranged between -10°C and -40°C and most typically between -25°C and -30°C. The colder the better, within reason but anything close to -20°C will suffice. This is particularly true for butane extractions of cannabis, which are much less waxy than most concretes. Ofcourse, chilling the alcohol is really just an additional step towards perfection and not at all necessary. Jump routinely redissolved his BHO in ethanol quite some time before I mentioned chilling and his specimens were incredible. Anyhow, it's been good talking with someone who takes such a keen interest in the matter. :)

gunna

I'd be interested in reading the source info you mentioned in this post. Trying to educate myself as much as I can on wax's and variables.

On another note ... does anyone use d/i to speed the process? Also as for filters, I filter out charcoal by rolling up a tight rod of toilet paper and rip it in half ... cram it into a funnel end with ripped end towards solution being filtered. By keeping everything in a cryo enviroment, like a cooler with a lot of d/i in it, the solution will filter almost like a wick. I wonder if this same idea could be applied to filtering out wax's. Thoughts?
 

gunnaknow

Active member
JC, I did much of my research on winterization and absolutes about four years ago and don't have the old sources anymore. Which info did you want a source for?

The toilet paper trick will certainly work, as you have created a depth filter. Depth filters have a high particle retention rate but without sacrificing on flow rate. Many of the pores in a depth filter are large, allowing for a fast flow rate but the depth of the medium means that even small particles become snagged in dead ends along the way. This is how glass microfiber filter papers work. I mentioned dry ice in another thread yesterday but I haven't used it for this purpose so I can only speak from theory. Dry ice could in theory be used successfully and the colder temperature should in theory precipitate more wax than a home freezer.
 

Infinitesimal

my strength is a number, and my soul lies in every
ICMag Donor
Veteran
hammer low and slow is always the best aint it... water bath on a hot plate with a fan sounds like the right idea to me
 

Hammerhead

Disabled Farmer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Yea I can do that but the jar seems a bit to small to purge in. Shouldnt I spread it out so there s a larger surface area exposed to the air and heat
 

Chunkypigs

passing the gas
Veteran
if you are evap ing in a small jar over heat you will need to stir it at the end to get all the alcohol off.

adding a few drops of water at the end helps to cook off the last of the alcohol.

I find it to be a PITA, getting the last of the everclear out.
 

Infinitesimal

my strength is a number, and my soul lies in every
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I used approx 500ml..Its all good now I just checked the jar does not have anything in it that I can see.. Now for the purge. I have a hot plate that I will put the Pyrex dish with hot water in keep it warm 115f put the jar in let it sit until its purged.


Anyone got any other ideas??

Yea I can do that but the jar seems a bit to small to purge in. Shouldnt I spread it out so there s a larger surface area exposed to the air and heat

I was agreeing with your above method with the pyrex dish and low temp water bath... alcohol is going to take a long time to evap no matter what... high heat helps, but it also removes terps, decarboxylates the Thca and degrades the Thc into Cbn... especially since you already purged the oil of butane once.

so yeah your pyrex low temp water bath, sounds like the right idea to me I would just add a fan to aid evaporation.

if you can't wait this guy puts a pot of water on the stove with a candy thermometer until it is stable at 175* and places the pyrex on top of the pot, but he also used raw Bho when he added the everclear... 14:00 where he is purging... it only takes him about 1 hour total to purge

[YOUTUBEIF]0SHxMD2D0K4[/YOUTUBEIF]
 

Hammerhead

Disabled Farmer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I will do it slowly.. I might burn it going to fast. Its @ 70c im backing it off until I get to 45c there it will sit untill done.

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Hammerhead

Disabled Farmer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
It was already dark. I cant remember all of the details since I made this batch of oil about 3 months ago or more. Standard pack and purge I used buds that had been curing for over a year probably closer to 2. this will always make your oil darker.....


I checked there is about 1/2" left in the jar I will turn the heated water back on and see what I get. I put in about 28g of purged BHO. Looks Like the return will be a gram at the most?? I dont think this worked properly. Im not making large batches like this anymore.. I followed the videos and instructions from multiple people. Im starting to think the stuff that had settled on the bottom of the jar was all of the oil and I tossed all of that?? It is what it is. I wont need to do this again after this one is done.
 
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Hammerhead

Disabled Farmer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
OK it's done. Theres allot more here then I thought. Looks close to 15g..Its the same color from when I started. The buds I used where very potent old buds from previous harvest that I save to make oil or bubble. I have the same save bag now the bottom of the bag is over a year old. Anyway it is very Potent oil for sure. It is very sedative.. Its a heavy golden brown color. This is the best I can do with this batch ....

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Hammerhead

Disabled Farmer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I got 16g back ....It's very strong. Im very sleepy right now can barely keep my eye open. Im going to lay down now :)
 

Hammerhead

Disabled Farmer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
This was the best I could do with this batch. I need to make a few diferant save bags maybe date them so I know witch is the freshest I have. If I use fully cure 2 year old bud the oil will be black guaranteed.. Since I dont have a market for Oil I wont be making any large batches anymore. I will just make it for myself and anyone that needs it for free(These folks know me))


I would like to thanks everyone for keeping the discussion on topic and no trolling or personal attacks where done.. Thanks guys :)
 
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gaiusmarius

me
Veteran
interesting thread HH, i had no idea that there was so much wax in bho. anyway you have some absolutes and thats cool, will save your throat and lungs getting that feeling of being covered with bho, lol. i'd love to try some, bet it's real medical grade :bongsmi:
 

Hammerhead

Disabled Farmer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Yes this is the stuff that heals you.. I get allot of relief using it.

Pain,Nausea,Insomnia,seizures,appetite.. I use more oil then I do buds. I like the effect from the oil more. I Am a firm believer in Simpson oil.

When I smoke my buds I get hypertensive, Increased heart rate, Breathing difficulties, Sweating. Not very pleasant from what I remember my younger days it being. Might have to do with the other meds I take? I can say the use of oil has reduced my Morphine intake by more the 1/2...It has improved the quality of my life big time.
 
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