Tea Article

[SeaMaiden]

What the heck does this mean? Are you trying to say stop growing?

Pretty much, but IIRC they also encapsulate themselves and are ready to grow again once there is sufficient moisture.

The myth has had various reasons attached to it but one thing I read in some of the original 'grow books' was that it allowed the plant and soil to suck up the nutrients (like in a vacuum) when applied to the dry porous soil. Absolutely ridiculous.

I wonder why things grow bigger and faster in a rain forest region.

Ah, well, I haven't read *any* of the grow books, so cannot comment on that. I assumed that the advice was based on the continuing issue of overwatering that's so often practiced specifically in cannabis cultivation.

I'm sure there's a lot that can be said about rainforest vs, say, savannah, but IIRC, the biggest organisms on earth aren't in a rainforest at all (California redwood spp). Neither are the longest-living organisms known to man. In fact, the honor of longest-living goes to bristlecone pines, IIRC, and they are quite decidedly in a desert region.

 

[rrog]

Regardless, best to keep all workers awake and working.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Which is why I cover crop, mulch, etc. However, I also don't typically experience overwatering problems. I have, however, had irrigation break while away, things like that, so I know it's not the end of the world if things get a little on the dry side.

 

[Microbeman]

Pretty much, but IIRC they also encapsulate themselves and are ready to grow again once there is sufficient moisture.

Ah, well, I haven't read *any* of the grow books, so cannot comment on that. I assumed that the advice was based on the continuing issue of overwatering that's so often practiced specifically in cannabis cultivation.

I'm sure there's a lot that can be said about rainforest vs, say, savannah, but IIRC, the biggest organisms on earth aren't in a rainforest at all (California redwood spp). Neither are the longest-living organisms known to man. In fact, the honor of longest-living goes to bristlecone pines, IIRC, and they are quite decidedly in a desert region.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=strange-but-true-largest-organism-is-fungus

http://wwf.panda.org/about_our_eart...ace_species/current_top_10/redwood_forest.cfm

http://quest.arc.nasa.gov/projects/jason/xv/docs/TempRain.pdf


Not the largest organisms but yes 'a rainforest'?

 

[MileHighGuy]

As I understand it, it forces them to go into stasis.

With specific regard to cannabis cultivation and the propensity many growers have for overwatering, I'm sure you folks have noticed that there are still, as there ever have been, threads on canna-forums specifically dedicated to the question: did I over- or underwater these plants? Perhaps, and this is just for consideration, but, perhaps the idea behind the wet-dry cycles in cannabis culture have been derived from so many people over-loving their plants.

I get what you're saying...

But with your experience you should know that recommending a rookie grower to let his soil get dry and then wet again is not the best advice.... Hence why you cover crop, mulch etc.

When someone posts something like this:

...in a day or two I follow up with a heavy watering and then let the pots almost completely dry out.

You have to agree that is bad information and those that you are speaking of with little experience and trouble watering don't need to hear this.

If there is so much trouble with underwatering and overwatering... why should we perpetuate this information? Just recommend to people that they build a proper soil and water it right... not wrong.

I'll admit, when you posted about wet dry cycles starting here on earth I took that as a sarcastic remark and after some thought... figured it wasn't personal, it was probably just in retaliation to other members on this forum that may or may not like peeing on their plants.... So I'll stay out of your beef.


As far as this one goes:

I have no idea how you extrapolated that from what I posted. No idea whatsoever.

I extrapolated that because the quote we were referring to was in relation to letting the soil get dry... when you said that wet dry cycles started on earth, obviously I assumed you were backing the quote up.... Sorry for the confusion.

To be Clear: Letting the soil get completely dry is probably not going to kill everything if it happens on accident.... but aiming to get the soil dry for some hidden benefit is asinine.

 

[OrganicBuds]

Just as a side note, I suspect some plants hermi when dry spells come at the wrong time. Sour D is especially sensitive to this, from what I have grown.

 

[W89]

what a donkey.....

 

[W89]

Oh..Oh... I just had an idea.... Would donkey pee be good for our plants?

 

[MrSterling]

Compost that stuff first w89. You know how it works.

 

[BugJar]

Beautiful thread here.

I wonder why I didn't sign up here years ago

 

[W89]

Compost that stuff first w89. You know how it works.

Cool beans MrS!! Will get on it first thing tomorrow...

 

[Chiefin]

Just as a side note, I suspect some plants hermi when dry spells come at the wrong time. Sour D is especially sensitive to this, from what I have grown.

Agreed. Been there dun that

 

[Dawn Patrol]

I apologize if my terminology and choice of words (wet/dry cycle) wasn't the best. Please let me clarify. In my experience, there is a benefit in not keeping the root mass uniformly moist throughout the plant's life cycle. Do I let them get "bone dry" and wilting - hell no, not if I can help it! I can't tend my plants every day and since they endure a wide range of conditions (I flower outside from September to April) sometimes they will be on the dry side for a couple of days.

I've not read a lot of marijuana cultivation books and I've never seen anyone advocate letting the pots get bone dry, but IMHO one of the best ways to gauge water needs when growing in containers is the weight of the container.

Each one of my pots (5-7 gallons) has a natural mulch of dead fan leaves and bamboo leaves, but when these are a little dry from the sun the ACT tends to run through the sides/edges of the root mass and out the bottom of the pots so pre-watering works well for me to maximize the uptake of ACT. Even when the top/sides are dry there is still quite a bit of moisture in the middle of the root mass and some additional water wets those dry surfaces and keeps the ACT from just running off.

Over the last 3 years, I've flowered over 100 plants a year. After I chop them I recover the soil mix and examine each root ball for it's health and signs of pests. The healthiest root balls/plants and largest yields are from the plants that are allowed to go through multiple wet/not so wet (does that make everyone happy?) cycles.

I typically have experienced issues (weak root growth and poor root/plant structure, poor pest resistance) if I have a lot of rain and the root masses stay wetter than I would normally keep them, but that goes back to the many issues associated with overwatering.

I brew ACT every three to four weeks and apply as a soil drench. My plants are happy and for the most part pest free. My biggest problems are airborne dirt, random bird/lizard shit on my buds and occasionally nematodes that get past my barriers.

I'll be the first one to admit that I have no knowledge compared to Clack, Microbeman, CTGuy and the other gurus. I know from experience what has worked for me and what hasn't. If anybody thinks there is a better approach I should take, post it or PM me, I'm all ears.

 

[Dawn Patrol]

pics worth many words??

 

[Gascanastan]

I'd say a picture is worth a thousand words...yet the watering explaination was pretty accurate for an attentative indoor/outdoor cannabis grower.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Microbeman, Big Trees, where the other California redwoods (aka giant sequoia) reside. Definitely not a rainforest, and not coastal. Will have to look up rainfall totals and see how those compare to the classic 'rainforest' but must make note that most of the state isn't getting all that rainforest water. Interesting about the fungus, I was wondering if it might be a stand of aspen, cactus or mesquite.

Here, from the horse's mouth: http://www.redwood.national-park.com/info.htm
Btw, I have a Sequoia sempervirens growing in my front yard that I planted myself. The soil dries out sometimes. Every year, in fact.

I get what you're saying...

But with your experience you should know that recommending a rookie grower to let his soil get dry and then wet again is not the best advice.... Hence why you cover crop, mulch etc.

Where did I say that? Please, just show me where I said that.

You have to agree that is bad information and those that you are speaking of with little experience and trouble watering don't need to hear this.

Do I have to agree, really? We're talking about mostly potted plants here. So what if they do this? Everyone has their own learning curve, everyone has their own methods that work for them.

When I first started cultivating cannabis, I did things differently than I do now. Why? Because, I learned stuff on my own. I killed lots of plants that first year. So what? Really, in the grand scheme of things, the vast majority of the organic growers *here* who are so precious about this shit are growing INDOORS, in POTS, often under THOUSANDS of watts of light (and that doesn't account for all the other energy wasted on heating water for teas, keeping worm bins warm, moving water, air filtration whatever) and I find myself wondering, What the hell? Why on earth are they so precious about this stuff?

If there weren't such a massive dichotomy in logic and reasoning occurring with this issue I might be more willing to entertain the notion of some great wrong being done by suggesting someone's day won't end right there if a POTTED PLANT dries out. But for me, that idea just doesn't hold water. If you fuck it up, start over again. Lesson learned. If we were discussing something that might get someone killed, then I could understand it being a little heated. But in this context?

If you want to talk about growing outdoors, where an effort is made to literally work in concert with nature, where the effort to build soils makes a difference to more than just what's growing in that little pot, where my own efforts are going towards making a positive impact when and where I can, where anyone can, then we can talk and that discussion will be different. We'd discuss water conservation first, though, not last.

If there is so much trouble with underwatering and overwatering... why should we perpetuate this information? Just recommend to people that they build a proper soil and water it right... not wrong.

I never made any recommendations here, I made an observation and only spoke about what *I* do. I know. My observations can really get some folks worked up, but that doesn't mean they're not accurate or true.

I'll admit, when you posted about wet dry cycles starting here on earth I took that as a sarcastic remark and after some thought... figured it wasn't personal, it was probably just in retaliation to other members on this forum that may or may not like peeing on their plants.... So I'll stay out of your beef.

No, absolutely not personal towards you or anyone in particular, but definitely on the sarcastic side. As you can see, I pissed off the wrong people, and they go and tell others, who tell others and next thing we know we've got this nice, big, unfriendly mess. (It's driven away other members.)

Mostly, I also like to play devil's advocate because it challenges my own assumptions and ideas, yet that makes people angry and upset. And get this--I think water should be conserved, especially fresh water. I also think power should be conserved, and its conservation is more important depending on its derivation; E.G. I'm on solar, but was on the grid using PG&E and therefore using whatever generation methods they're using.

Do you see me attacking people for doing things differently than I do? What you'll see me discussing for the most part are ideas and my own experiences. You felt strongly enough to quote me and respond, and so I ask that you use your powers of observation to answer those questions for yourself.

Peeing on plants, really? Is the level of reading comprehension here that low? Or are peoples' biases really just that strong?

I extrapolated that because the quote we were referring to was in relation to letting the soil get dry... when you said that wet dry cycles started on earth, obviously I assumed you were backing the quote up.... Sorry for the confusion.

To be Clear: Letting the soil get completely dry is probably not going to kill everything if it happens on accident.... but aiming to get the soil dry for some hidden benefit is asinine.

I think it really depends on what you're growing. I never let my succulents get too wet, ever, and they always appreciate the soil being nicely dried out.

But mostly, I think this right here is a terrible case of losing scope and perspective to become passionate about wet/dry cycles and whether or not someone uses them on their potted plants.


And, with reading, further observation, I see that I am still 100% correct in my assertions and observations.

 

[MileHighGuy]

There is NO big deal here at all.

Killing plants on a learning curve might be fine for you... but not for me.

This could have so easily been a blip on the radar... But I learned my lesson... No More Drama for me.

If you hadn't made a comment about wet/dry cycles all sarcastic style then we all would have just moved on..... but you are a Damn MENTOR... I can spout my mouth all I want... but when you add a Mentor tag it adds to the confusion.

Specifically, we were all talking about container plants.

It's obvious that DawnPatrol knows how to grow and wasn't meaning it the way he put it... and it really doesn't matter. But I'll tell you what, when I fist started growing, all the information regurgitated through the grow forums was DON'T OVER WATER, get them good and dry and weeping for water and then let em have it.... and I really really wish that someone with more experience had stepped in and said NO! Don't do that, just water like normal, build a good soil that will drain and you won't need to worry so much about over watering... so please don't under water just out of fear.

Instead, I listened to all the misinformation and my grows suffered because of it... but now I know better.

If you want to talk outdoor grows then we are on a completely different page....


@DawnPatrol - Sorry you got wrapped up in this.... it sounds like just a slight communication issue and I really don't feel like it should be a big deal. 100 Plants a year doesn't happen with dry pots and I know that's now how you meant it.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

If anybody thinks there is a better approach I should take, post it or PM me, I'm all ears

Dawn

Good to see you around these here parts! Your approach is fine and well considered

Best wishes!

CC

 

[MileHighGuy]

Dawn

Good to see you around these here parts! You're approach is fine and and well considered

Best wishes!

CC

 

[Microbeman]

SM;

Your interprtation of what you call coastal (or not) is interesting. I live further from the actual coast than the park you noted, yet it is considered part of the coastal temperate rain forest. There is lots of literature regarding the issues with contemporary drier weather patterns impacting temperate rain forest zones, including those in California and Oregon.

I also have a sequoia growing in my yard as well as 100+ year old cedars. Usually in the summer the surface ground does go dry but moisture is retained below forest duff and deeper of course.

This in contrast to the myth which I believe was being addressed in the thread wherein, the soil in its entirety is recommended to dry out, thereby suposedly creating a better medium for uptake of nutrients. This is, I believe, commonly referred to as the 'dry-wet cycle'. It is unclear to me why you are applying the discussion of this 'myth' to other natural phenomenon which are not really the same.

I do believe the aspens are second in line as the largest living organism known. Who knows what else the Earth will reveal.