Card carriers - a question about trust

[I2KanGrow]

I don't live in a MMJ state, but if I did, I still don't know if I'd have the nerve, and trust in our government to register as a medical cannabis user. The concept of telling the government that I use cannabis... well, it just scares the crap out of me.

I have visions of being put on some future target list. My wife has a federal government job, & I have a job at a state university - we can't afford to lose it all because I've made it clear to the government that "I'm a stoner".

To set the record straight, I've had 2 back surgeries for degenerated disks, and there are days when I'm in serious discomfort, so I sometimes medicate.

I will NOT take opioids, that to me is a trap.

If I were in a state that allows for registration, I'm sure that I'd have no difficulties with qualifying for a card - one look at my back MRI, and my years of Dr. records would be all it takes to prove that I've got serious back issues, but once registered, would they now have something that they could use against me in the future, should they want to.

Call me paranoid, but I have nightmares of some supremely conservative state government getting into office, & changing their minds, I don't think I'd like them to know that I've "used pot to feel better" in the past... the concept scares me. I have little trust in the benevolence of our government.

Am I being ridiculous?

 

[BasementGrower]

well anyways im the same way. i dont know if i wana be put on that list lol. but say no to opiates. they will ruin ur life.. stay with the pot.. and keep it on the downlow ull be fine.. once its legal we wil be ok .

 

[Max Bloom]

Here in California the state ID card is voluntary. All a patient needs is a doctor's recommendation.

 

[I2KanGrow]

Here in California the state ID card is voluntary. All a patient needs is a doctor's recommendation.

I'm not questioning the process, Max Bloom, just pondering possible later consequences of registering.

I really admire those who have "come out of the closet" - so to speak, but, should you decide to be honest, and volunteer to register in order to make things "above-board", who is to say what "they" (the state & federal governments) do with their knowledge that you're a cannabis user?

Would you be able to hold a job with any connections with the government? I'm primarily an educator, but my paycheck comes from the state - I see this as being possibly problematic.

Does/will the government start watching you closer then "the average citizen", to "make sure you're staying 100% compliant" with their laws? I could see where a card-carrier may have opened themselves to closer-than-normal scrutiny by the law authorities.

Any employer can start to employ random drug testing, especially if they have reason to believe they may catch someone with illegal substances in their pee. There's a lot of state & federal employee random drug screening, how about them?

I'm sure that a lot of people who have received their card must have have given some thought into what applying for the card could mean to them, with regard to how law authorities treat them in the future. You've signed a legal document that says you use pot... that to me is terrifying, seems like you're possibly giving the executioner the bullets in-which to shoot you through the brain with.

Call me paranoid & a coward, and I'd likely agree with you. I both really admire people who register and obtain their MMJ card, because they want to be honest & open about cannabis... & think that that they may well-be making a foolish move on their own behalf, because, who can trust the government & law officials? Who doesn't get more self-conscious & a bit nervous when you drive-by a cop, even though you know you're not breaking any laws or being reckless?

 

[Obsidian]

move here to Colorado where it's legal and you won't have to worry.
Never get the card!

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

You can read stories here of people being pulled over in Nevada because their MMJ status shows up on the cop's computer. I wouldn't put my name on a list. Things may be good now and the future seems bright, but in reality it is quite uncertain. Where would we be headed now if Romney had won the election? Where will America be ten years from now?

 

[medmaker420]

If you have feds, state or local "dealing with you" then card or no card, you did something wrong to get put on that radar.

I just have my doctors recommendation here, I will not get a state card as I do not see "the state" needing any reason to know what my doctor and I discuss let alone what my recommendation is.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Get your doctor's recommendation and grow your own.

Skip the card... it's only good for using in dispensaries anyway and, well, it's a toss up on quality.

Stay Safe!

 

[kmk420kali]

I'm not questioning the process, Max Bloom, just pondering possible later consequences of registering.

I really admire those who have "come out of the closet" - so to speak, but, should you decide to be honest, and volunteer to register in order to make things "above-board", who is to say what "they" (the state & federal governments) do with their knowledge that you're a cannabis user?

Would you be able to hold a job with any connections with the government? I'm primarily an educator, but my paycheck comes from the state - I see this as being possibly problematic.

Does/will the government start watching you closer then "the average citizen", to "make sure you're staying 100% compliant" with their laws? I could see where a card-carrier may have opened themselves to closer-than-normal scrutiny by the law authorities.

Any employer can start to employ random drug testing, especially if they have reason to believe they may catch someone with illegal substances in their pee. There's a lot of state & federal employee random drug screening, how about them?

I'm sure that a lot of people who have received their card must have have given some thought into what applying for the card could mean to them, with regard to how law authorities treat them in the future. You've signed a legal document that says you use pot... that to me is terrifying, seems like you're possibly giving the executioner the bullets in-which to shoot you through the brain with.

Call me paranoid & a coward, and I'd likely agree with you. I both really admire people who register and obtain their MMJ card, because they want to be honest & open about cannabis... & think that that they may well-be making a foolish move on their own behalf, because, who can trust the government & law officials? Who doesn't get more self-conscious & a bit nervous when you drive-by a cop, even though you know you're not breaking any laws or being reckless?

You are not understanding the system in Cali-- All you need to be legal, is a Recommendation from a Dr-- It does not go in any data base, it never leaves the Dr's office-- It is impossible for it to show up on any background check--

 

[Hydro-Soil]

You are not understanding the system in Cali-- All you need to be legal, is a Recommendation from a Dr-- It does not go in any data base, it never leaves the Dr's office-- It is impossible for it to show up on any background check--

Same with Nevada and Colorado... as far as I'm aware. Dunno what the other states are.

Basically... if you have legal precedent in your state that a medical condition and recommendation from your doctor is enough to prevent prosecution... get your doctor's recommendation and that's it.

should you decide to be honest, and volunteer to register in order to make things "above-board"

Filing un-necessary paperwork that puts you on state or federal radar is really not smart. You should work on that programming you've been exposed to that produces feelings like that. The govt is not benevolent, don't feel obligated to jump through their hoops.

Always look everything up yourself, from several sources.

Stay Safe!

 

[SeaMaiden]

My attorney specifically recommended against getting the MMPA state ID card, and his reasoning confirmed my own reasoning for refusing to acquire one. Since it is not compulsory in this state, and I know factually it does not protect you from arrest, I won't acquire it.

I have, however, come out publicly with regard to patient's rights, so I am known to the government. It's silly to think there isn't someone sitting on a dossier somewhere.

 

[jayaregee]

if the fedreal government really wanted to know exactly who is smoking and who is growing, they could, EASILY. I have a buddy who suffers from the same fear out here in cali. I tell him to just get a rec but he is worried about some big invisible database where the feds will know he smokes, im like arent the pix of you on facebook clutching your bong just as incriminating?

All im saying is, as good as the goverment is at survellance, if they really wanted to know, they would and we would have no clue, registering or not.

 

[yerboyblue]

I always ask people that are afraid of the future, hypothetical, consequences of getting a card, what the current, real and actual consequences of not getting a card and proceeding with growing or possessing are.

 

[MIway]

I always ask people that are afraid of the future, hypothetical, consequences of getting a card, what the current, real and actual consequences of not getting a card and proceeding with growing or possessing are.

If the cops & prosecutor really want to press the issue, having a card and/or dr rec is only a positive defense through the courts... And they can attempt to have that defense dismissed entirely, trying to prevent any mention of it in court. One could be entirely compliant with the mmj laws, and still have their gear, genetics and income destroyed...plus the thousands of dollars in legal fees, along with months and months of down time. Total ass fucking, even if the cops are in the wrong. Its a shot at arguing in court and thats about it...in the contested areas of mediville.

But i agree, would rather have that shot vs guaranteed felony conviction with no hope for anything better. But the card itself is no guarantee of a civil and respectful encounter with the cops. Its bothering that people feel the card gives them some form of impunity.

And then again, there are areas and cops and prosecutors that are half reasonable and open to mmj and the rights of individual people. Few and far, but it is nice being in those spots...and then the card is a real protection.

 

[yerboyblue]

I see what you mean MIway, I guess I am spoiled out here. Having a card is pretty much a get out of jail free card here. Case after case that gets brought to court where it was pretty clear the person was outside of the limits, gets dismissed.

But like you said, even if that wasn't the case out here, I would still rather be able to argue it even if it was a huge PITA, than having to take whatever deal they offered me.

 

[feeling good]

I live in oregon and you are on a data base that even the fed's used last year in at least 3 major grow operations busts. The one thing that you over look is that most people at least here in oregon if you have a card you are ill, sick, dying, or what ever > but the main thing is that you dont work, you cant work, you are retired so no body cares what you do. The state just wants to makes easy money and the best way to do that is just leave the card holders alone and keep making that money. went from 10 dollars to 200 dollars in one year. no thats making money.

 

[SeaMaiden]

If the cops & prosecutor really want to press the issue, having a card and/or dr rec is only a positive defense through the courts... And they can attempt to have that defense dismissed entirely, trying to prevent any mention of it in court. One could be entirely compliant with the mmj laws, and still have their gear, genetics and income destroyed...plus the thousands of dollars in legal fees, along with months and months of down time. Total ass fucking, even if the cops are in the wrong. Its a shot at arguing in court and thats about it...in the contested areas of mediville.

But i agree, would rather have that shot vs guaranteed felony conviction with no hope for anything better. But the card itself is no guarantee of a civil and respectful encounter with the cops. Its bothering that people feel the card gives them some form of impunity.

And then again, there are areas and cops and prosecutors that are half reasonable and open to mmj and the rights of individual people. Few and far, but it is nice being in those spots...and then the card is a real protection.

I see what you mean MIway, I guess I am spoiled out here. Having a card is pretty much a get out of jail free card here. Case after case that gets brought to court where it was pretty clear the person was outside of the limits, gets dismissed.

But like you said, even if that wasn't the case out here, I would still rather be able to argue it even if it was a huge PITA, than having to take whatever deal they offered me.

I guarantee you that in California having a card does not protect you. My son? Spent a week in jail and LA County Sheriff's Department tried to hit him with smuggling charges. Why? Because, he'd been popped before with small amounts on him, and was charged with DUI because of the location of the weed in his vehicle (he drives a Wrangler--anyone 6' and taller can reach pretty much anywhere in a Wrangler), so he hid it in a compartment on the outside of the vehicle for his trip home from school. School ---> home = smuggling 1/8th, are you fucking kidding me? He's been trying to get it back, because he's been a legitimate card-holder since he was 18yo and every time they laugh in his face. Every time.

And that's just to start. I can talk to you about others, hospice nurses, et alia, who are currently awaiting their day in court. Wanna know what the court's doing to them? Disallowing their MMJ status, regardless of holding a card. Tuolomne County is the one in action right now. Treating them like street dealers is what they're doing, especially if we're talking about a jury trial (we are) and information that could sway the jury (I don't see how it wouldn't given the letter of the law), and they *are* going for felony convictions here. The expense is staggering.

That is all far too expensive a gamble for me to take, or to recommend others take. Just get the recommendation and leave it at that.

 

[Cabron]

I can comment on this issue being the recipient of a long drawn out case which is just now winding down in MI.
I was totally compliant being a card holder,patient and caregiver .
All cards were up to date and completely legitimate but it didn't even matter in the end
the Judge still motioned to enter a jury trial with no MMJ defense to present to a jury .


This even after having all my DR's and patients testify on the stand and be scrutinized.

It's a circus ,and there is no justice in MI for you , there is no section 8 defense even
after fully qualifying .

The section 4 is worthless as well .

The main focus with prosecutors now in this state is to attack the legitimate patient
Doctor relationship .
This means you as a patient or caregiver better damn well be certain that you and your patients are 100% legitimate ,
and have an ongoing and periodical relationship with your prescribing physician.

I personally see mine every 3 months .

I will not be renewing my card as it didnt mean jack shit in court .
The Dr recommendation was what was scrutinized and as far as I'm concerned
signing up with the state is just giving your money away to a corrupt system that
will only suck every dime from you while ignoring every letter of the act that is there
to offer a protection .
I have my newly renewed letter from my Dr copied and hanging on my wall ,(renewed every 3 months) .
I have taken on new patients and they are debilitated with MS ,Neurological diseases, etc and in wheelchairs
,,,I love taking care of them and I'm moving to Washtenaw county where it's a much safer place with like
minded and intelligent people.


Being a medical patient and or caregiver doesn't mean you are protected ,,,I'm here to tell you
I am in debt now 15 grand in legal expenses and havn't even been sentenced yet ,having been forced to
take a possession of MJ misdemeanor plea after 2 years battling a corrupt system .


Can you imagine a possession of MJ charge while being fully carded and legal ..?

 

[I2KanGrow]

If the cops & prosecutor really want to press the issue, having a card and/or dr rec is only a positive defense through the courts... And they can attempt to have that defense dismissed entirely, trying to prevent any mention of it in court. One could be entirely compliant with the mmj laws, and still have their gear, genetics and income destroyed...plus the thousands of dollars in legal fees, along with months and months of down time. Total ass fucking, even if the cops are in the wrong. Its a shot at arguing in court and thats about it...in the contested areas of mediville.

But i agree, would rather have that shot vs guaranteed felony conviction with no hope for anything better. But the card itself is no guarantee of a civil and respectful encounter with the cops. Its bothering that people feel the card gives them some form of impunity.

And then again, there are areas and cops and prosecutors that are half reasonable and open to mmj and the rights of individual people. Few and far, but it is nice being in those spots...and then the card is a real protection.

I realize that this may sound paranoid, but it seems to me that if law enforcement want to press the issue, they can then take aim on the easiest, biggest target, the people who have painted the big bulls-eye on themselves by registering.

It's also surprising to me that there are doctors willing to risk their practice by publicly "bucking the system", and stating that there may be medical value in cannabis. I admire you folks who have risked it all to be above-board, but I don't think I'd have that courage, should it ever become legal in my state.

 

[I2KanGrow]

I will not be renewing my card as it didnt mean jack shit in court .

Yours is a sad tale of caution, Cabron, thank you for sharing - I wish you luck and send you prayers.