Aliens, yay or nay?

[gaiusmarius]

there are crop circles and there are crop circles. some of these things show up in a matter of minutes and they are so amazingly beautiful and complex that it blows the mind to think anyone could do that with some planks and string after a nite at the pub. sure there are shity man made crop circles, but some of them are very different, don't ask me what they are or how they come about, but when those pub guys were asked to make more crop circles with their tech the results were abysmal and nothing at all like some of the "real" crop circles one can find being documented. there is a whole community dedicated to watching certain fields and informing everyone as soon as a new one apears, these guys documentation is pretty compelling. apparently the earth under the circles is actually altered and they find tinny metal spheres in the soil samples. also the crops them selves are changed in a strange way, the place where they are bent down seems to look like it was a piece of corn in the micro wave, very interesting.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

Maybe mushrooms are a device thro which these aliens can be seen?

There most certainly does seem to be a connection between hallucinogens and "alien encounters". Funny that.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Disprove that the walls are breathing in and out man....

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

Disprove that the walls are breathing in and out man....

I think you called me a "poo flinging monkey" for posting these Feynman quotes earlier, but maybe you should read these again.


“I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong.”

“So my antagonist said, "Is it impossible that there are flying saucers? Can you prove that it's impossible?" "No", I said, "I can't prove it's impossible. It's just very unlikely". At that he said, "You are very unscientific. If you can't prove it impossible then how can you say that it's unlikely?" But that is the way that is scientific. It is scientific only to say what is more likely and what less likely, and not to be proving all the time the possible and impossible.”


Now if I was claiming that standing next to me is an invisible six foot tall rabbit, it would be up to me to provide some convincing evidence if anyone were to believe me. But I'm not the one making claims about the presence of mysterious non-human entities.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I'm claiming I've seen what I've seen.

Anti was at least suggesting that I certainly saw something.

I would conclude that you're comparing my testimony to Harvey...?

The poo flinging monkey wasn't necessarily directed at you but if you thought it stuck then I suppose I threw it.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

O...K....

You made statements that I've interpreted as derogatory and mocking. You claim that wasn't your intent. Pretty borderline in my opinion but it's not of any consequence.

I would conclude that you're comparing my testimony to Harvey...?

Now this is an interesting situation. A number of people here have given their accounts of personal experiences. Some were of seeing strange things in the sky. Some were of hearing voices in their head. Some didn't relate experiences but told of why they were convinced that we are being visited or our societies even infiltrated by secret alien agents. My use of a rabbit guardian angel (you don't think us rabbits have human guardian angels do you? Well we can call him Harvey if you want) was directed to everyone who made the claim that extraterrestrials are here.

Now you've made statements that indicate that you do believe this, though you tend to speak in allegories and really haven't come out and said clearly what you think about all this. So in this situation, yes the Harvey reference was directed at you. You're making claims about the presence of mysterious non-human entities.

As for your personal testimony, you never claimed to have seen an alien being. You definitely had an experience. I'm certainly not denying that. In fact, of all the stories told here, yours was one of the most interesting. You laid out the situation and spoke to important details. I'm glad you shared it with us. I'm really intrigued by the hallucinogen aspect of it in that you were the sober minder of two friends on shrooms, but all three of you shared the same experience. I do not think any less of you for telling your story.

(a friend and I were once quite baffled by a lighted boat out on the ocean while tripping at night)

But all I can do is file your story away in my memory with all the other stories I've heard. It is so far out of the framework of my experienced and understood reality that I have no explanation for what you describe. So I file it away in the folder in my head that is marked with a big WTF?. Now I'm going to post that Feynman quote again.

“I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong.”

It doesn't bother me at all to carry around ideas in my head categorized as "unknown". It makes life interesting and keeps problems filed in a category readily available for retrieval. It's one reason why I'm in this thread. I imagine that most of the IC Mag readers who've labeled themselves as nonbelievers never even clicked on this thread. Some people need to put a label on things even if they haven't enough info to do so correctly ... do you believe or not? Seems that's what this thread has been about. It's like having Jehovah's Witnesses at the front door again. Personally I try to avoid using the terms "believe" or "prove". I'm fully aware that as a human I'm very capable of fooling myself. In fact my fooling myself several times now has had some rather potent negative repercussions in my life. I've learned to be more cautious. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

I don't think you'll find any of my statements here mocking others either.

If I'd had the experience you described, maybe I wouldn't be satisfied to leave it without constructing/choosing a framework of reality in which it fits. If I'd had the experience you describe, I can also envision myself being defensive when confronted with those who express doubt.

Mr. Mustard, I've always enjoyed reading your posts because of your wit and insight. I was glad to see you return to IC Mag. I do appreciate your reminding me about Dubya in that room full of tuxedos telling those fuckers that they were his base and them all looking at each other grinning. I'm sorry and saddened that after years on this board our first conversation should skirt the edges of conflict. I have no fight with you.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I'm really just pointing fun at the fact that people have raised logic to some religious level and were ranting about it to the same degree.

If I hurt anyone's feelings I'll apologize for that.

As for what I said to Anti I don't believe it was taken as an insult, mockery sure but he's gotta have tough skin...

Logic will only get you so far, even in the scientific community.

To see people hiding under it without coming out and still trying to communicate with those in an "unlikely" or "illogical" discussion just drives me to get them to come out and breathe.

I truly doubt that you're a rabbit. I find it highly unlikely.. and illogical.

However I will engage in why you think that way and what you may say about it... as illogical as that is.

If you can't think outside the box you may as well just stay in it and build it sturdy.

That's what my beef truly is Rabbit

I like abstract thinking and innovation, I believe that's the real savior for what technology has become.

I just saw a bunch of logic getting in the way of this thread and said something.

I did NOT say not to worship it and throw it around... I just suggested it go to another thread.

It seems that some like to believe that they would believe if certain parameters were met, I would doubt that being the case... logic would bar that from happening

I know many would if they could but they can't.

Anyway I wasn't really ragging on anybody but the raggers.

You like quotes too I see, I'll put up a favorite of mine.

"The most intelligent minds are those that can entertain an idea without necessarily believing it." - Aristotle

I really hope you realize that I wasn't fighting anybody.

:friends:

If I wanted to puff up my shitheadedness I could have repeated my earlier question to you until you answered it or pointed out the DNA post didn't say anything about gene linkage just genes.

I let it go because I figured you didn't want to answer it and were happy knowing that my numbers were off (a little )

I'm not out to "win" an "argument" or "debate" a damn thing.

I said earlier in the thread I would post up experience.

I was trying to clear the air so as to restore some order before I just had my story hidden amongst a bucket of bickering.

No worries Rabbit!

 

[lost in a sea]

well i'd still like to see real footage of a crop circle appearing over a period of minutes..

that is one thing i certainly dont buy into.. i dont get why aliens would press crops in shapes ?

seems like such a anthropomorphic thing to do.. if it is aliens pressing crops to the ground they need to get lives really or just get in touch with us properly because at the moment they are just helping spread lots of inane alien fantasies and helping sell alternative material by pseudo-snake oil merchants to people who are mystified by it all,, and rightly so..

 

[legalizeDK]

They wouldn't look anything like us. If they came here why be hidden. If you didn't want to be found out you could probably not fly over people in broad day light, don't you think? So you must think they are screwups to be seen so often. Couldn't they get all the info they needed from radio and TV broadcast? Why get so close if you want to be secret?

if they are nothing like us, how come you know how they think and what intentions they have

 

[mean mr.mustard]

well i'd still like to see real footage of a crop circle appearing over a period of minutes..

that is one thing i certainly dont buy into.. i dont get why aliens would press crops in shapes ?

seems like such a anthropomorphic thing to do.. if it is aliens pressing crops to the ground they need to get lives really or just get in touch with us properly because at the moment they are just helping spread lots of inane alien fantasies and helping sell alternative material by pseudo-snake oil merchants to people who are mystified by it all,, and rightly so..

As HempKat pointed out I think the initial consensus was that spacecraft had made the shapes by landing.

 

[legalizeDK]

Well since we are getting so heavy into speculation, it's widely believed in the 50's an alien craft crashed here and the craft with it's occupants were kept in a secret base and tested on by the military. Now from all I've heard it was a small craft with at the most 3 passengers. Given what we know about space and space travel (distances and limitations) this small craft would likely then be part of a recon mission for a larger ship. If so and these aliens had the ability to travel vast distances of space it's likely the larger ship was in contact with and/or watching their scout ship. If so then they would have been aware of what happened to the crew. As such they might be highly incentivized to avoid future contact.

Now I don't really buy any of that although I do think an accidental crash is the only likely way anyone here might ever see an alien from outer space. I think that because I can't think of any logical reason they would want to endure the likely years upon years of travel to get here, just to check us out. Nor can I think of anything particularly remarkable that might only be found here and be detected from multiple light years away in order to draw them here.

The point is, just because I can't explain why based on my understanding of things doesn't mean it's not true. In lack of physical evidence one has to wonder then about the actual sightings. It's the volume of sightings from all over and from people of many differering backgrounds, some very questionable and other respectable and professional that suggests there is something worth considering. To just say that all these people are just seeing something that isn't there because there is no proof isn't any more logical then someone seeing lights in the sky that doesn't look like anything they know and saying therefore it must be an alien space ship.

look how much we acheived in regards to space travel(moon, rovers, ect) in only about 50 years. so to think we have every thing figured out about space travel is naive. if a civilitation is a million years older than our own i would think that they would had the tech to travel great distances. in theory warp speed can be acheived

hempkat I just quoted you to make a point, cause the distance "claim" allways comes up. i agree with most of your post

 

[armedoldhippy]

Then why do we have chimpanzee DNA?

we also have between 1 1/2 % to 5% Neandertal dna in us. maybe we are just a mixed-up breeding project that escaped the cages ? an accidental contamination of the petri dish... "stupid monkey! i KNEW i should have locked the lab door..."

 

[bombadil.360]

if they are nothing like us, how come you know how they think and what intentions they have

correct.

and this relates 100% to the logical side of the debate.

how can we make any seemingly logical claim when we simply have no point of reference in regards supposed extraterrestials beings either flying around the earth's atmosphere or living amongst us.

the actual logical answer is that we can't.

logic is actually really useful, the issue is that to properly use logic is quite a difficult task; even so-called 'thinking out of the box' has been described as 'supra-logical' by pioneers in engineering for example...

that being said, even claiming that 'alien visitors is highly unlikely' is illogical, as there's no point of reference whatsoever.

in fact, we do have a point of reference and that's us; our very penetration into space, that we have been to the moon, sent probes into mars, makes it the more likely.

peace

 

[legalizeDK]

that being said, even claiming that 'alien visitors is highly unlikely' is illogical, as there's no point of reference whatsoever.

in fact, we do have a point of reference and that's us; our very penetration into space, that we have been to the moon, sent probes into mars, makes it the more likely.

peace

exactly

 

[Alone]

(alone peeks in again.... still sees the trash coming, and quickly leaves)

 

[legalizeDK]

^^

 

[Hank Hemp]

Here y'all go.

 

[Rainbowkid]

I was tricked yes there are aliens... how could there not be we spent 8 billion last year dealing with them from what i read...

 

[BushyOldGrower]

I think crop circles are messages from aliens. I did once see a video of a UFO making a crop circle and I did see one skim the ground like an air cushion vehicle.

Someone should make a book of all the photographed crop circles and see if anything can be deciphered. Some of it looks like sacred geometry.

Let's just suppose the aliens are coming and that they do want to help us. what could they do? Perhaps some good tech stuff like stealth aircraft or fiber optics? Maybe we bought those from the aliens with all the gold in fort Knox. Nobody can see the gold anymore and I bet aliens like gold.

We could hope that they would fix our planet and help us govern ourselves more effectively but what would you want them to do? Help us or just go away and leave us to our own devices? I think we do need help but at what cost.

If they came in force and took over the world it would be a costly invasion and surely it would cost many lives. We wouldn't trust them would we?

Of course not. We are still in the jungle baby and even if they aren't we know that other animals in the jungle need to be controlled. Our methods would say that they must have sinister motives.

What could they do for us? Maybe the most important thing would be to rapidly reduce our population dramatically. We need no help to do that but we don't yet recognize our real problem. Hopefully the aliens could trach us to control our population and stress on our planet. Maybe they have a machine that fixes co2 pollution but the ral problem is the pollution from so many people.

I hope the aliens are out there because I see little recognition of our big problem.

And of course we have monkeys in us...why wouldn't we? The aliens made us from monkeys right? BOG

 

[HempKat]

look how much we acheived in regards to space travel(moon, rovers, ect) in only about 50 years. so to think we have every thing figured out about space travel is naive. if a civilitation is a million years older than our own i would think that they would had the tech to travel great distances. in theory warp speed can be acheived

hempkat I just quoted you to make a point, cause the distance "claim" allways comes up. i agree with most of your post

Well I agree that we don't know everything about space travel but that doesn't necessarily mean that there is a way to travel faster then the speed of light. I hope there is and one day we discover it so that we can explore more then just our immediate solar system. Just because a civilization might be much older then our own doesn't mean that they will discover things we have not though. As I understand it one of the problems with traveling the speed of light or faster is that it is believed a physical body would turn to pure energy. Since we can't travel anywhere near that fast though we can't test it. Nor can we learn if the body would return to it's normal state once it slowed down. Or if there is a way to keep it intact and still travel that fast. Or if while in that state a being would retain awareness such that they could react to unexpected events during the trip or be able to apply the brakes at the right time to reach a desired destination.

The distance issue is real, that much we're fairly certain of and so it makes sense for that to always come up. I do however account for the possibility it might not be a limitation for a more advanced race but it's also my opinion that if that were the case that if an alien race could travel those vast distances in a more reasonable time frame, that being that advanced would most likely eliminate much of the needs to come here to earth. Or that if they still felt a need to come they would be able to do so in a way to stay hidden and if they didn't stay hidden they would do more to make their presence known then just allow for random sightings and encounters