Growing all red question.

[SonnynGeechi]

I plan on experimenting with using all red led. I have heard of people using straight red from the beginning to the end of the process. I understand that this isn't exactly copying nature but there are some benefits as well is disadvantages to growing this way. Well I was thinking on trying red from seed to flower and the only thing I was worried about was stretching. I am going to do a homemade aero/hydro style setup. I want my plants to stay short say no greater than 24-36inches. When do I stop vegging and go into flowering mode. I am confused because I've read about people taking clones and just doing a 12/12 with a hps from the get go. This would also give me the ability to have clones and flowering plants right next to each other in the same system. what do you think?

 

[hempfield]

It will be interesting for sure to watch such kind of grow. Red is good for seedling and for flowering, but I believe that absence of red spectrum will have a negative effect on plant growth.

To reduce the stretch you could give them as long as 14 hours of light on flowering. This will delay bud formation but will help keeping the plants shorter.

But why only red ? It will be extremely hard for you to work with the plants, as human eye has less sensitivity on red spectrum (especially on deep red >650nm).

I think you will get better results using just warm white LEDs instead of narrow band red.

 

[SonnynGeechi]

Are you suggesting that the plants will not stretch from such an abundance of red until it gets into its flowering process? I was under the impression that they stretch from red light just cause its red? Now I'm beginning to wonder if its cause red light has less penetration energy than blue so the plants fells like a red light is too far away.....hmmmmmmmm. If what I just said was true then I have nothing to worry about.

 

[SonnynGeechi]

Im doing myself a favor and reading up about stretching duh duh duh.....Im kinda slow.

 

[Phychotron]

Check out issue 4 of the canna magazine, it has some good information on the effect of light and color.

Direct Link (PDF) http://www.cannagardening.com/node/1579/download

 

[SonnynGeechi]

Ok thanks for the the link. I have prolly the holy grail of the documents online about blue and red light. Its the, drum roll please bdbdbdbdbdbdbdbd ........, one from NASA about the studies the they did with blue light and red light. If you want to read it google it or hit me with a pm and I can email it to you. In a nut shell what it concludes is that Red light is overtly the winner in plant growth versus using Blue light, doing something int he neighborhood of 3 times much plant growth then the blue light. And they only provided evidence that a tiny bit of blue light was a catalyst to the red light but only a small fraction of blue light was needed and an increase in blue versus red light ratio did not provide further gains. The gain of adding a small fraction of blue light to red was about 10%. The pdf provided above had some interesting things to say. I like what it was saying about Auxin hormones.

Now don't you think that a plant that is primarily apical dominant dominate would be more robust? In my mind the main stem of the plant is the high way for nutrients where as the tiny side branches are slower congested side streets.

For the last 3 weeks I have settled on a 500watt red led (single diode) and a 100watt blue (single diode). So far I so no reason to purchase anything different.

 

[SonnynGeechi]

Actually it was solely red produced more like 4-5 times as much as using solely blue.

 

[tenthirty]

I want to grow budsycles.


That being said, IMHO
You would be well served to investigate a fuller spectrum for optimal growth for what you want the final outcome to be.

With the ability to control the spectrum also come the ability to steer the plant. (to a degree)

As far as the leds that you want to use, do you have links to data sheets?.....etc.

 

[xmobotx]

from what i remember reading the nasa stuff some plants did OK w all red some needed a dose of blue

i buy in to 1030s homogeneity idea too sure seems like the best results come from mimicking nature

i like to think a red/blue light w some whites to round it out a little would be good ~as do many LED manufacturers

 

[Phychotron]

The Blackstars (6-band) I have are much more red than the Advanced DS/EF (11 band), and the Advanced are much better lights. They have a more complete spectrum that the plants need to flourish, including some green. Sure technically you only need red/blue but those dual band LED's went out of style years ago. As cannabis connoisseurs people have realized that just two bands are not enough to get the fat dense buds. You should at least consider using some white diodes to fill in the secondary spectrum requirements.

furthermore, You might also consider 2 red diodes, at slightly different wavelengths just to make sure you have wider range.

did nasa grow leafy greens, vegitables or buds with their lights? Because it makes a huge difference, as vegetative growth has very little light requirements in comparison to flowering out bud.

 

[SonnynGeechi]

All valid arguments...thanks for helping with the brainstorm.

 

[xmobotx]

yeah it seems like the nasa stuff was leafy greens and roots

most basic light i would run would have @ least 4 discreets so its wider blue and wider red ~it does seem the farther spectrums are important too like deep red; royal blue

it would still be pretty red dominant

i like the idea of even farther red though and maybe UV

 

[SonnynGeechi]

I'll argue this. Have you seen an all red smd led grow and been able to compare it to a hps of matching wattage? If so plz share. AS far as I know I am like one of first people on the forums these days to even talk about these higher wattage smd led diodes let alone use one.

And Omg first of all the black star has acrylic cap leds no wonder they suck. First learn the difference between smd and acrylic capped leds. Then come to realization that only an uneducated idiot would buy acrylic capped leds to grow plants with. The other one, the diamond series, they look like acrylic capped leds as well. I figure if they where smd leds they would have specified so I assume they are the same crappy acrylic capped leds they have in the ufo and every other crappy led system out their. If it aint SMD LED it is NOT the leds that they are talking about when they boast about Leds being as efficient or more effecient than HPS. So since I know that you didnt know that now I am skeptical towards you =(

 

[SonnynGeechi]

I'll argue this. Have you seen an all red SMD led grow and been able to compare it to a hps of matching wattage? If so plz share. AS far as I know I am like one of first people on the forums these days to even talk about these higher wattage smd led diodes let alone use one.

And Omg first of all the black star has epoxy cap leds no wonder they suck. First learn the difference between smd and epoxy capped leds. Then come to realization that only an uneducated idiot would buy epoxy capped leds to grow plants with. The other one, the diamond series, they look like epoxy capped leds as well. I figure if they where smd leds they would have specified so I assume they are the same crappy expoxy capped leds they have in the ufo and every other crappy led system out their. If it aint SMD LED it is NOT the leds that they are talking about when they boast about Leds being as efficient or more efficient than HPS. So since I know that you didnt know that now I am skeptical towards you and your knowledge =(

When they talk about Leds replacing HPS and the like, They meant leds like this

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/628753641/300w_high_power_led_2_years.html

And then after they made their claims they sold everyone this
http://www.mrdccu.com/graphics/jpg/LED_anatomy-0.jpg
based off the hype, and made a killing doing so....its sad really.

 

[SonnynGeechi]

10-30 yes....I want to grow budsycles, please show me how.



ps- why cant I edit any of my post or delete them?

 

[SonnynGeechi]

OK back on topic. Does anyone have any examples of an all red led grow of marijuana. And I am talking about SMD LEDS not the epoxy capped leds which are inferior to HPS in efficiency.


If not. Get ready cause I am going to be the one to do it I guess. 500watts of pure 660nm light coming from a SMD LED diode that is about 3inches by inches attacked to a heatsink that is 19lbs..............lmao

 

[WeedIsGod]

You come off pretty pompous, SonnynGeechi.

People have used multichip LED's to great effect, but they have been mostly Warm White or Cool White, 100W max to my knowledge. Yours would be the first 300W multichip grow, I must admit, but all monochromatic Red just doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

Why not go 25% 430nm, 25% 460nm, 10% 630nm, 40% 660nm and get the entire thing coated with 2700k phosphor? That is if they can't only cover the Blue chips with phosphor, of course. The Red won't excite the phosphor and pass through with minimal efficiency loss. Still an abundance of Red in the spectrum, imo, but 50% Warm White is better than nothing, plus you'll at least be hitting all pigments.

If it were me I'd almost want a 200W chip, 50% 430nm, 50% 460nm, "2700k" phosphor. Then I'd have some 10-20W 660nm's hanging around for good measure.

 

[SonnynGeechi]

I'm getting a 500watt chip. To answer your question, "why not".......cause I have seen a grow log supporting the claims that a grow with solely red is not as good as full spectrum. I am not close minded. I am open to the idea that I could be going about this the wrong way. Its just that no one has had any proof for me, other than opinion and hear say. And what exactly is going on at 430nm and 460nm and 630nm? From what I understand chlorophyll-A is the big dog energy molecule and its getting a hefty feeding at 660nm versus splitting energy with other molecules in the blue spectrum. If chlorophyll-a is the bread winner why should I care about the rest?

 

[SonnynGeechi]

Dammit I meant "cause I have NOT seen a grow log supporting the claims that a grow with solely red is not as good as full spectrum."

and why can't I edit my post!

 

[WeedIsGod]

Chlorophyll a absorbs Blue and Red light, though. Even if you only wanted to make that one specific primary pigment happy you're still only half there, right?

The reason I went for 430nm and 460nm was because this should pretty much fully cover Blue requirements of chlorophyll a + b. The phosphor will be excited by both those wavelengths and convert it to full spectrum so Blue output will be diminished, but you'll still have secondary peaks in the Blue where I want them. Then you've got 50% of the dies still outputting Red (on top of the Red that the Blues now produce after the phosphor lens). Because the Blue's will now have a peak near 600-620nm I added less 630nm so things wouldn't get out of control.

Why care about the rest? Because after a single pigment is saturated with light of a specific wavelength you can still increase photosynthetic activity via other wavelengths and/or pigments. It's like only working out your biceps. There's hundreds of micro-muscles which aren't seeing very much activity.

I haven't seen a grow using just Red, so I can't help you there. I've heard about a guy who vegged under only 630nm to good effect, however, there was considerable stretch in his plants. This is only something I heard.