Help trying organic for the first time

[johnnyrotten]

Ok, I've completed one coco hydro grow with pretty good results, I have also experimented with PPK's and have had great results so far...I've got a couple more plants that just started flowering using Jacks Hydroponic's in PPK with huge growth...

Even though I have had good results in hydro, I realized that i absolutely hate making RO water and mixing nutes, worrying about leaks in the system, float height, ph levels, ppm levels...etc...

I am thinking about trying a couple plants organic...I like the idea of recycling the soil, no flushing, better taste and a better overall product instead of increased yield since I only grow for myself... I had a couple of plants that smelled extremely chemical/pine/fuelly after 3 weeks of flushing that I want to make sure isn't nutes...the buds burn clean but they all taste pretty good but I want the best quality...

I have a few clones that are ready to go in my aero cloner, I think I'm going to put them into a 1g smart pot and feed them Roots Organic Grow until I can get my mix figured out...

I am thinking of using LC's Mix #1;

5 parts Coco
3 parts Perlite
2 parts Earthworm Castings
2 tablespoons powdered dolomite lime per gallon

and for nutes (mixed into soilless mix)

Every 5 gallons
1 Cup Mexican Bat Guano
1/2 cup Jamacain Bat Guano
1/2 cup Indonesian Bat Guano
1/4 cup Peruvian Bird Guano
10 Tbs Kelp meal
5 Tbs Green sand
5 Tbs Domolite lime

My goal is to use water only, add no nutes or boosters throughout the grow and get the best tasting, most natural bud I can...

Can I mix this and start using it immediately or do I need to let it cook for a few weeks?

I also had another thought, wouldn't it be smarter to mix the everything into the soilless mix except the guano and top feed those at different points during the grow to match each plants needs?

 

[RanchoDeluxe]

Happy to see you here wanting to grow organically. Take some time to read the Living Organic Soil thread.
You may change your mind on what amendments and liming agents you decide to use. You should let your soil "cook" or allow the nutrients to cycle for at least a few weeks the longer the better.

If water only is your goal, try that on a plant or two. On another plant or two, use the same mix but w/half the amendments. Keep your liming agents the same though. I've used dolomite lime for years, it works. There is better liming agents out there.

Aerocloners work extremely well for hydro. Everytime I've planted a clone from one into soil it goes into shock for at least a week. Clones from Rapid Rooters don't go into shock if done right. Think aloe and coconut water here. Small plants should not be placed into the soil w/ all the amendments, unless you are testing a plant to see whether or not it will burn.

Seriously read the Living Organic Thread...at least 100 pages or so. It really opened my eyes and I have been growing organically for years.
RD

 

[johnnyrotten]

Help trying organic for the first time

Thanks Rancho!

I have had time to look at that thread and it is interesting... As far as the clones go, I usually take the out of the aero cloner, put them in coco and feed a strong enough nute mix to get them green... The roots are probably two foot long now... I think I'm going to put them into something like Happy Frog for veg until I have the time to cook my own soil properly...

 

[RanchoDeluxe]

I've never used Happy Frog....I hear it's junk. Hot, uncomposted. I think Roots Organic is junk too....except that I know it works well especially for clones....just make sure to cut it with 25% peat...or you'll wonder for a week or so if they will ever snap out of the slight burn they got goin on. If I had to use HG (without any experience) I would do the same thing.

So are you saying that you can avoid transplant shock from the aerocloner to soil, by first putting them in some coco? Or are you trying this out for the first time?

When I use rapid rooters, most of the time the roots are just barely poking out when they get placed into 6" pots w soil.

The best advice I can give you is to try as many different soil mixes as possible. Label them, and compare the results. I don't want to tell you what to do, but kelp meal is the only dry amendment on your list that I use anymore. If you want some help on your mix...just ask. Good Luck
RD

 

[DuckDuckGoose]

hey johnnyrotten,

maybe instead of paying extra for the Happy Frog soil, you could use some of the same ingredients that you plan on making your soil out of minus all of the amendments. something like some plain old promix or sunshine #4 mixed with quality earth worm castings maybe some rock dust, and a bit of extra aeration amendment. something simple like that with some alfalfa or kelp teas or what not, a top dress of some ewc, an ACT, some seed sprout enzyme teas... whatever really. should getcha through veg using the same ingredients that you will be mixing into your soil, saving you some money to spend on better things than dirt in a bag. my 2 cents is only worth a penny though cuz i'm only 1 step ahead of you... and my seedlings are doing fine in the mix that i mentioned above so i hope that helps. good luck man!

DDG

 

[johnnyrotten]

Rancho,

What I do when I grow in hydro (really coco/perlite) I take the clones from the aero cloner and put them into a pot full of 70/30 coco/perlite and add nutes...works great... This time I just took a small bag of Happy Frog and put the clones in that, the Happy Frog I got is supposed to be the least hot... I've still got clones in the cloner so I'm not worried about them dying... I have also used Rapid Rooters and they have worked well in the past, I'll probably go back to those since I'm going all organic...I guess I need to find a replacement for clones too...

I look at this as a learning experience, I have been reading the Organic Soil thread and I have learned a lot of the first 20 pages...so much so that I do want to make my own soil and recycle it...

I would welcome your help and would love some suggestions using other amendments...

The most important thing is simplicity... I hate mixing nutes and making RO water once a week so I'm not sure how much I will like making teas... I still haven't learned how to water soil, with coco I fed nutes until runoff daily, how do I water soil? I know it sounds stupid but do I just wait until the top doesn't feel moist when I squeeze it between my fingers or do I water when it looks dry?

 

[johnnyrotten]

Duck,

I agree that I should have just used what I had but I didn't know what to use so I got the least hot organic soil available... I only have coco and perlite...but I did find a local nursery that sells high quality earthworm castings and just about any organic amendment I would be looking for...I found them this morning...Once I figure out what does what with organic I will go back there...

i'm hoping to put these clones into flower in about 4-6 weeks...I'm not in a big rush, I only grow for personal use and I just harvested 5 and have two that I wish were in organic right now in flower...I took clones of them this morning...

hey johnnyrotten,

maybe instead of paying extra for the Happy Frog soil, you could use some of the same ingredients that you plan on making your soil out of minus all of the amendments. something like some plain old promix or sunshine #4 mixed with quality earth worm castings maybe some rock dust, and a bit of extra aeration amendment. something simple like that with some alfalfa or kelp teas or what not, a top dress of some ewc, an ACT, some seed sprout enzyme teas... whatever really. should getcha through veg using the same ingredients that you will be mixing into your soil, saving you some money to spend on better things than dirt in a bag. my 2 cents is only worth a penny though cuz i'm only 1 step ahead of you... and my seedlings are doing fine in the mix that i mentioned above so i hope that helps. good luck man!

DDG

 

[DuckDuckGoose]

yeah johnny rotten, i hear yeah!
i am literally on the same path as you except 1 step ahead, i just mixed my soil!
my last grow was coco with perilite hand watered with run off. i had a decent result but felt like it wasn't for me. i started looking into organics and found these threads and did a 180! i doubt i will ever grow in coco with nutes ever again. this just feels better to me, and i'm learning a bunch about gardening, not just balancing a res'.
i live in canada and we don't have happy frog. i bought a commercial brand soil and had to transplant out of it and into the mix that i listed above because my seedlings looked awful after just 10 days. i hope that doesnt happen to you. now my little guys look better though so i feel like i learned a valuable lesson the good old hard way. now i'm gonna focus on high quality ewc and compost. that seems to be the most important factor going forwards and making my own is the goal. i hope everything works for you and keep up on the threads, they are an incredible learning resource.

DDG

 

[DuckDuckGoose]

yeah johnny rotten, i hear yeah!
i am literally on the same path as you except 1 step ahead, i just mixed my soil!
my last grow was coco with perilite hand watered with run off. i had a decent result but felt like it wasn't for me. i started looking into organics and found these threads and did a 180! i doubt i will ever grow in coco with nutes ever again. this just feels better to me, and i'm learning a bunch about gardening, not just balancing a res'.
i live in canada and we don't have happy frog. i bought a commercial brand soil and had to transplant out of it and into the mix that i listed above because my seedlings looked awful after just 10 days. i hope that doesnt happen to you. now my little guys look better though so i feel like i learned a valuable lesson the good old hard way. now i'm gonna focus on high quality ewc and compost. that seems to be the most important factor going forwards and making my own is the goal. i hope everything works for you and keep up on the threads, they are an incredible learning resource.

DDG

 

[johnnyrotten]

yeah, I guess you are a step ahead! I think the best way I found to grow with coco/hydro was with a PPK system using Jack's Hydroponic nuts... I don't have to do much except fill and mix the res... From what I've heard and read, organic produces the best quality bud and that what I'm looking for! I'll probably do what you did and transplant into better soil soon once I figure out what I need to put in my soil...

 

[johnnyrotten]

Help trying organic for the first time

Ok, I've been reading the thread more and I'm just going to start with the Gascanastan mix... He mentions possible top dressing and maybe a tea during mid flower which doesn't sound that difficult...the local garden supply carries just about everything except dolomite lime which the hydro store does... If I mix it this week, it will be ready by the time these go into flower...

 

[ClackamasCootz]

johnnyrotten

Go to Home Depot or Lowe's and look for Scotts Soil Sweet = Dolomite Lime for chump-change.

Scotts Super Sweet = Limestone also cheap

HTH

CC

 

[RanchoDeluxe]

I have yet to try Gascanastan's mix yet myself. I think it would be a great place to start though. Or try Coot's mix. I tried out Coot's mix and the problem I encountered was my backyard compost wasn't fully composted yet. I solved this problem by letting worms run through the compost for a few months and then I screened it down to 1/8" or less.

I couldn't afford any failure in my room so I went with my old soil mix w Coots amendments. I figured if I ran into any problems I could simply topdress and tea my way out of it. They made it day 35 or so of flower until I saw my first yellow leaves. They were fed 1tsp per gal of Protekt just about every watering and a tea or two of alfalfa/kelp.

I have some veg plants right now that are the healthiest plants I have ever grown in my life. One watering they get aloe, the next alfalfa/kelp, the next barley, the next coconut water...and so on and so on. Protekt is always used.

I moved from hydro to organics along time ago because of the simplicity. You are gonna need an air pump that is measured in liters per min. Mine is rated at 45lpm and I know it is sufficient for at least 20 gallons. Microbeman or CTguy could give you the correct info here on what you'll need. Teas are clean and easy, unless you add guanos or EWC. Alfalfa/kelp is by far my favorite.

After a couple of runs you could get yourself into a water only situation if you like. Personally, I like to leave some room for teas and such. Unlike hydro, there isn't a whole lot you can do when you stick a plant into really hot soil.

You said you gave your plants some nutes when they were taken out of the cloner and into coco. I'm hoping you didn't go with chem nutes here man. It doesn't jive well with the microorganisms we are trying to multiply.
Good Luck
RD

 

[johnnyrotten]

Help trying organic for the first time

Rancho,

I've got air pumps already for my old DWC system...

The nutes I have are some that roots organic (not chemical) sent me but I find that clones do much better with no nutes, tap water only to keep the coco moist at least for a couple weeks... Works the same as rapid rooters...

I can see there will be a lot of changes for the better... It will take some time to learn it all...

 

[John Deere]

Hey johnnyrotten (anarchy!)

I'm relatively new to organic (middle of my 2nd run) and have a similar background to you. (personal grower, coco/perlite/chems) My thoughts and suggestions so far...

As mentioned, read the Living Soil thread from the beginning. It'll take quite awhile but it's absolutely worth the time. Lots of the info flies over my head but slowly, some if it is starting to stick. It's an incredible thread. The organic knowledge base around here is phenomenal and folks are willing to help and share as long as you've done your homework first.

Mix up your soil ASAP, even if you don't have all your ingredients. The longer it sits, the better it gets. I'm still finding things to add to mine.

Most around here recommend peat. I used some coco in my mix but mostly peat. I'd get some for your mix, too.

A larger pot is better. I used 1G smart pots on my first run and had some issues. I started in them this round but switched to 3G pots and they're doing much better. I'll probably bump up to 5G next round. Or a larger tub if I can find one that fits my flower cab.

Mulch will help keep that important top layer of soil moist and protected. I use old trim leaves and stems. Simple and it works great.

I mostly use water only but regularly make ACT with a few variations. And I'm definitely moving towards other waterings like RD mentioned. I've got aloe now, biochar really intrigues me and I plan to start some sprouts ASAP.

Fun stuff. Best of luck.

 

[johnnyrotten]

Hey John Deere, yep anarchy! I haven't seen you since the Skunkman mixed seed thread... I just cut my last one down, I actually got some really excellent bud from those seeds... I'm going to run a couple of them again organic...

I have been reading the Living Soil thread, most of it has gone over my head but the more I keep reading it, the more I understand... I read the entire Passive Plant Killer thread plus the related ones to learn that...so, I feel that I will get my head around it soon...I've been reading up on all of the organic ammendments that I know my grow shop doesn't have but my local garden shop does... They not only carry locally produced EWC but sell worms as well as everything to makes your own EWC...I bought some of the EWC that had arrived that morning plus some kelp meal...

I've decided that even though I do have coco that I do want to use peat...even after growing in coco, I don't trust it completely...I hate the way it take mag from the plants....so, I probably will stop using coco...I just used a quarter bag a few weeks ago and I mixed some into the Happy Frog along with some perlite to help it drain better...

I put the clones into 3 gal pots and that it what I used before with no issues but I've read that if I use 3 gal with chem nutes that I probably want 5g smart pots with organic... if I only had to feed/water once a week, I'd be very happy!

So, you use the dry trim and leaves from your plants on top of the soil of your plants? I have plenty of that to use!

I keep hearing about aloe, I've read about teas and I could handle that but not every week... I will look up biochar... I'm going to try to stay away from all the "miracle additives" for organic, I've seen them already, read the contents and realized that they are the same thing that I can buy at the store and mix it myself... I agree, it is fun stuff, thanks!

 

[johnnyrotten]

Thanks for pointing that out to me CC, I appreciate it! I checked HD and it's not available right now...looks like I'm gonna have to get it from the hydro store...nobody has it hear...

johnnyrotten

Go to Home Depot or Lowe's and look for Scotts Soil Sweet = Dolomite Lime for chump-change.

Scotts Super Sweet = Limestone also cheap

HTH

CC

 

[ClackamasCootz]

johnnyrotten

You have a good source for the future if nothing else!! LOL

Here's another idea for you - Home Depot like many retailers have a 'ship to store' program and Scotts Soil Sweet (Dolomite Lime) can be ordered through this service

You order it at their web site, choose the store you want to pick it up at and you pay nothing for S&H - i.e. the price at the link is what you pay and nothing more!

Might be an option for you perhaps...

HTH

CC

 

[johnnyrotten]

Help trying organic for the first time

Thanks CC, I had already found that link and it doesn't work for me... Oh well... I'll find some somewhere...

 

[johnnyrotten]

Help trying organic for the first time

Look what I found, this looks like dolomite lime to me...
http://www.homedepot.com/buy/soil-doctor-40-lb-pulverized-garden-lime