Mister D's Vertical Redemption

[DHF]

It was easier back in the day before polyhybrids , cuz all the old head breeders would STILL plant 1000`s of seeds in the pheno hunt to stabilize a strain like let`s say for instance Simon from Serious seeds........

Only a few stable seed offerings and when yas planted whatchas got , they were fairly similar in growth as well as overall plant structure.......nowadays ?.....

It`s a crapshoot/roll of the dice at how many pheno`s will come out of even 500 seeds as Bobbles pointed out and still......

Yas could plant 500 more of the same seed and find just as many more different examples of unstabilized strains/varieties/hybrids due to the crossing of damn near every species and sub species known to God and man.......anyways......off my soapbox fer today......

Gonna go let the dawg out and watch him bite waves till breakfast is ready.........Happy Holidays guys.......

Peace.....Freds..............

 

[Mister_D]

jesus.. really it took u that many seeds to find that little amount of keepers? how do u go threw that many seeds.. and only find a couple keepers? do u have a checklist that u go by? or something i just wana find out why this is . because maybe the keepers ive found in packs are not the best pheno and theres better out there lol iunno im just curious how u decide on a mother.

Honestly there where probably 100 "keepers" in all those seeds, but I was looking for very specific traits related to the type of grow that I was doing. Here is a list of a few to give you an idea

1. Yield vs flowering time - Gmax has an excellent chart demonstrating yield over a year based on flowering time
2. Stretch - Growing trees at the time so more stretch is required. SOG grows require little stretch....
3. Quality - This encompasses taste, smell, bud density, bag appeal, and effect.
4. Branch strength - I don't bother with weak stemmed/branched plants
5. Resistance to stress - be it bugs, fungus, over/under feeding, high/low temps and humidity, etc. These things are purposely tested.
6. Root mass - Larger more aggressive rooters produce bigger buds, and over all healthier plants
7. Vigor - I don't bother with slow growing plants.....
8. Natural growth shape - I don't like having to train the shit out of my plants so I look for plants with a shape that lends itself to my grow style. i.e christmas tree look for tree gardens, and totem pole shape for sog gardens
9. Rooting speed for the clones

That should give you an idea of how the list formed. It's easy to find a satisfactory plant in just about any 10 pack of reputable seeds, but to find a plant that embodies all of the qualities I seek is a much greater challenge that requires numbers your average grower doesn't have time/space for. Where do you suppose all of these so called "elite" clones come from? I'll be popping them in lots of 50 so this will be an ongoing project. Seeds will be hitting water today or tommorow. Thinking i'll probably start another thread just for them, and continue this one with the racks.

grow 500 seeds and you'll have your answer. There's 50 that damp off in the beginning before they're even sexed. Runts. 50% are males. It's easy to find a good plant in 10 seeds... but if you want a great plant, it's better to run 100. If you want a few great plants... well you had better run 300 at least.

I havn't had a seedling damp off in years. Usually a few don't sprout and some are weak, plus an average of 30-40% males. I cull the weak plants and anything that doesn't fit the criteria before they even get flowered. I killed 5 of 9 females from the last batch of 20 just because I didn't like their structure. Killed 4-5 others before they even sexed because I didn't like something about them. Those that make it to flowering I continue to moniter for desirable and undesirable traits, eleminating the plants with undesirable traits as I go. Out of 300 seeds I expect around 150-200 females. Of those only maybe 100 will ever be flowered to completion. Of those 100, maybe 5 will be kept and ran a few times to determine the winner.

Trust me boys, i've got a plan much bigger than what's been revealed here....... Like a good book, the story slowly unfolds, and finally make sense at the end

Oh and i'll do an update with pics today or tommorow

 

[Mister_D]

Just noticed these actually uploaded a couple days ago....

Put a fork in her, she's done.... She's 15-20 years old btw

and some of the new momma's a few days back, bet they look alot better now Mostly romulan with clones of selected females of destroyer, and chemmy jones. Oh and a DMK for headies...

 

[Mister_D]

It was easier back in the day before polyhybrids , cuz all the old head breeders would STILL plant 1000`s of seeds in the pheno hunt to stabilize a strain like let`s say for instance Simon from Serious seeds........

Only a few stable seed offerings and when yas planted whatchas got , they were fairly similar in growth as well as overall plant structure.......nowadays ?.....

It`s a crapshoot/roll of the dice at how many pheno`s will come out of even 500 seeds as Bobbles pointed out and still......

Yas could plant 500 more of the same seed and find just as many more different examples of unstabilized strains/varieties/hybrids due to the crossing of damn near every species and sub species known to God and man.......anyways......off my soapbox fer today......

Gonna go let the dawg out and watch him bite waves till breakfast is ready.........Happy Holidays guys.......

Peace.....Freds..............

Beauty of clones is I only need 1 of those 500 to be just what i'm looking for. Then it's monocrop that bitch for everything she's worth and reap the rewards . Stability is nice if you always grow from seed, but if you are looking for a mother to reproduce all the gene mixing in polyhybrids can be seen as an advantage.

 

[ItsTopShelf]

nice dude. u look for alot of good qualityies

 

[BasementGrower]

Mister D- Thanks alot for explaining that .. so basicly.. once u make a checklist of what u want.. the amount of seeds to plant goes up.. and the amount of keepers goes Down..

see i made some crosses with good females.. and a male that is supposed to be really good..
now.. if i take all the seeds from the cross.. and germ em all .. go threw pick best male and female.. make seeds i end up with a new cross? or F1s or ?

anyways i appreciate u taking the time u did to write that .. shows alot of dedication to helping people and is much appreciated.. i hope all is well and goes well.

 

[GMax]

excellent post D...

now I have been limited to the amount of seeds I have grown and am in no way an expert breeder...but since I have been limited on the seeds I have access to, finding a quality mother is top priority...

I have learned that it is damn near impossible to determine the quality of a potential female in veg.. when I was searching for a mom in a pack of Jock Horrors.. I had three different phenos...and the one that I would have considered my worse/runt at flip, ended up being my keeper.... before the flip she was short and stout, bout 6-9'' shorter than the others...big maple shaped leaves with uneccesarily long stems... after harvest she was the tallest..the biggest yielder..perfect xmas tree shape and best quality smoke...only one other pheno beat her out in the smell department

that was just one case... but in every pack of seeds I have grown, if you would have asked me which one was my best one before the flip... it has never been my keeper...all I am saying is you never know what you are tossing


I guess that is just what it takes when searching for the perfect pheno among 100s of seeds ...I have a hard enough time throwing away a perfectly good extra clone lol

 

[Bonzo]

what it do brotha D...

 

[Mister_D]

nice dude. u look for alot of good qualityies

I live in one of the more competitive markets. Herb has to be outstanding in everyway or my patients don't want it. Too much good herb around to settle for something subpar.

Mister D- Thanks alot for explaining that .. so basicly.. once u make a checklist of what u want.. the amount of seeds to plant goes up.. and the amount of keepers goes Down..

see i made some crosses with good females.. and a male that is supposed to be really good..
now.. if i take all the seeds from the cross.. and germ em all .. go threw pick best male and female.. make seeds i end up with a new cross? or F1s or ?

anyways i appreciate u taking the time u did to write that .. shows alot of dedication to helping people and is much appreciated.. i hope all is well and goes well.

If you are growing out seeds from just one cross and selecting a male/s and a female/s from those seeds to cross you are making an f2. However if you are crossing two or more different crosses together you are essentialy making a new cross or f1's. It's technically a bit more complicated than that, but for a basic frame of reference what I said is correct.

excellent post D...

now I have been limited to the amount of seeds I have grown and am in no way an expert breeder...but since I have been limited on the seeds I have access to, finding a quality mother is top priority...

I have learned that it is damn near impossible to determine the quality of a potential female in veg.. when I was searching for a mom in a pack of Jock Horrors.. I had three different phenos...and the one that I would have considered my worse/runt at flip, ended up being my keeper.... before the flip she was short and stout, bout 6-9'' shorter than the others...big maple shaped leaves with uneccesarily long stems... after harvest she was the tallest..the biggest yielder..perfect xmas tree shape and best quality smoke...only one other pheno beat her out in the smell department

that was just one case... but in every pack of seeds I have grown, if you would have asked me which one was my best one before the flip... it has never been my keeper...all I am saying is you never know what you are tossing


I guess that is just what it takes when searching for the perfect pheno among 100s of seeds ...I have a hard enough time throwing away a perfectly good extra clone lol

The way I see it is your average grower usually looks for one or two general things in a keeper (say yield and potency for example). If those are your only considerations it's not really hard to pick the most potent and best yielder out of a pack of ten. Aside from that you only have ten plants to pick from, so naturally sacrifices are likely to be made. Now consider if you had 100 plants to choose from, you can be more picky as it's very likely that there are multiple plants that fit your criteria. In this case your decision becomes more involved as maybe you have ten plants that all have equal yield and potency. Now you have to find new characteristics to judge which will be your keeper. It's partly out of this logic that my list kept growing, and therefore the amount of seeds needed to find a keeper. Honestly I blame the skunkman for my selection tendancys. Had the pleasure of speaking with him at length a few years back, really changed my whole out look on growing and breeding........

what it do brotha D...

Was just about to send out a search party for ya bro . All isn't unicorns and pixie dust over here, but i'm still breathing so the show goes on. What kind of mysterious magic is brother bonz up to in his work shop these days? Resurecting the freedom buckets perhaps? Maybe a lil coco being spilt? Possibly making some orge beans for your favorite vert brother

 

[Mister_D]

Heading out to the grow here shortly, so i'll put some pictures up later today or maybe tomorrow. I've had some serious family issues the last week that have ultimately held up seed popping for the moment. Might just wait until new years before I get into that...... Family is and always will be my first priority. No worries boys and girls, things are about to blow up over here, in a good way .

 

[Mister_D]

Romulan mothers topped and getting ready for a mass cloning session. Also some chemmy jones and destroyer that was selected earlier.

Hayward valve for the racks. Probably weighs 3lbs, serious industrial quality lol.

200' of flexzilla. LOVE this stuff in the grow room, thanks bobble.

56 or 64, I forget exactly how many, botanicare drain fittings

continued......

 

[Mister_D]

Breeding room still needs chopped.....

Romulan

Dead Man's Kush

Cenex

continued.....

 

[Mister_D]

Jack Herer, still a week to go.....

Partial Room Shot

 

[aerokrafter]

Those girls are looking frosty!

This is definately a fun and informative thread and I look forward to your future adventures!

Thank you for taking your valuable time to share with us!

-AK

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Looks great D.

 

[bobblehead]

Your timing is impeccable...

 

[DHF]

Buncha strainwhores all up in here......Diggin the rainbow Bro......

Happy Ho Ho guys......Freds...........

 

[BasementGrower]

thanks mister d . for everything. u made me rethink how i choose my keepers from now on . thanks a bunch

 

[silver hawaiian]

_D

What's the lineage on the Cenex? Looks frickin' beeyoots.

 

[Mister_D]

Those girls are looking frosty!

This is definately a fun and informative thread and I look forward to your future adventures!

Thank you for taking your valuable time to share with us!

-AK

Thanks aero. Me and my boys are just here entertaining each other most of the time, good to know others enjoy our humor also. Suprised you have time to keep up on other threads with all the things you have going .

Looks great D.

Might not be as moldy and spider mite covered as yours. Or have the added potency of cat hair like mega's, but hey i'm trying my best to keep up

Your timing is impeccable...

Well I can't go stealing your ideas if you havn't shown me how to implement them yet now can I?

Buncha strainwhores all up in here......Diggin the rainbow Bro......

Happy Ho Ho guys......Freds...........

I back down to three atm, soon to be monocropping the romulan .

thanks mister d . for everything. u made me rethink how i choose my keepers from now on . thanks a bunch

Glad I could be of some help, that's what i'm striving for. Though i'll warn you it's a slippery slope. Once you start you'll find yourself requiring greater numbers with each selection, but there are great rewards for the work involved.

_D

What's the lineage on the Cenex? Looks frickin' beeyoots.

Honestly no idea. The strain was aquired as an unnamed cutting. Guy that brought it to the area met his connect at a cenex gas station, hence the name. Lifebreather told me they have a cenex in his area that is og kush x c99 IIRC. What I got is really strong herb, but too couch lock for my liking. So it's gone now.......