ERR... UNFLUSHED CANNABIS ...CONTAINING CHEMICAL COMPOUNDS FROM THE FERTILIZER.SAFE?!

[NotaProfessor]

I have no idea what the specific tests are... I'm not a lab tech. I do know the tests exist and can be done at labs that test cannabis.

You made mention of tests as a support for your claims a couple times in this thread. You don't know what the tests are but are sure that they exist and that the results from such tests back your claim.

I'm a science guy. Somebody mentions tests and now you have my interest. Can't name the analyses? Darn, I thought you had something there. I'll leave you to telling stories then. I apologize for interrupting.

 

[frito bandito]

Just smoked one of the two samples I set out to dry. This is a SSH plant which was dark green at harvest, leaves not yellowed out. It got plain water for the last 4-5 days, maybe a week tops. Tastes fine. I will have to do a lot more back to back testing over time to discern if there is any effect at all from a "perfect" flush vs this, but there seems to be no discernable difference right offhand in taste from a "perfectly flushed" bud. This particular bud is just dried over a few days and hasn't cured yet or anything, so it does taste slightly off, like a hint of "green plant" taste which I know will go away in cure. Other than that I don't detect anything odd.

 

[immaculate]

Fuck, I've been thinking about this. I've been smoking the popcorn nugs that have been sitting in trim bags for fucking weeks (yeah, whatever). These plants were not properly flushed, the trim not properly dried (duh). The ash crumbles hard and chalky white, so there's definitely some sort of residue. When burned, the shit sparks, crackles and pops. It's off-putting for sure. And I do wonder about the effects...intuitively I know that they can't be good. Food or weed, at the end of the day it's got to be organic. The fact that the distinction even has to be made points to the severity of our problem.

 

[sprinkl]

Hydro,
So you've seen lab tests that show quality is higher in a bud that has had its PPMs "dwindled down" over the course of 2 weeks vs. the same bud/plant that has been given 1330ppm (never overfed) until its chop date? How was "higher quality" determined.. thc content and the a like?

And in different tasting celery and cucumbers, how do you know what you are tasting to conclude that it was "extra nutes" vs. pesticides or something else which may have been done to it in its process in landing in the grocery store? Seems like there would be lots of variables to take into account.

I got some mandarins recently from a harddiscounter store.
They taste awful, really acidic while they are already starting to rot so definitely ripe somehow though it tastes nowhere near ripe, just acid and chemmy, it even pinches/burns on my tongue and not just because they're so acidic, I've eaten enough unripe fruit to know it's not from the (natural) acid.
I think pesticides wouldn't go through the peel.

This is the first time I linked bad tasting fruit to chemically overfed/unflushed, never had it this worse that I made the link. When my dog doesn't want it to me that means it's definitely unnatural garbage. He eats any fruit and vegetables, even the often bitter skin...

Also the best way to taste for residual chemicals in weed is by smoking joints. Often it only starts getting slightly bad after half a joint. If you just smoke bowls you might never notice this. When the taste remains pure up until the last bit of the joint, where a bunch of resin(and when badly flushed also the chemicals) accumulates on the last few hits. Then you know you really have well flushed weed.

 

[sprinkl]

Which lab tests will tell this? Please be specific.

How does this "must flush" philosophy extend to outdoor in-the-soil grows where all the nutrients are available right up to chop? By your statements outdoor weed is unpalatable to you then?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

In full soil, it seems that plants will not start flowering unless they've taken up a big part of the available nitrogen. When they are finally big enough and start flowering, I think they will take up most of the P and K available as well.
As others have said, it's also not possible to create salt buildup in the soil as any watering/rain will flush out excess salts, so even if not all the nutrients are used it won't be horrible chemically overfed tasting. Which is not the same as unflushed tasting.
Also I feel that with chemical feed you can really overfeed a plant, force it to uptake more than it needs. Whereas with organic it's really hard to overfeed a plant(besides with organic N that breaks down fast). Supposedly the microherd makes more nutrients available as the plant needs it. To me chemical feeding is like eating fastfood, injecting pure easy to break down forms of protein, fat and sugar straight into the blood and adding vitamin pills to keep healthy. As long as you don't overdo it the result will be fine. Though if I were a cannibal I probably wouldn't want to touch the flesh of someone who frequents Mc Donalds. Whereas with organic it's eating natural food with lots of fibers and fats and sugars that take energy to convert and break down. If you eat kilo's of fiber rich food you will mostly crap it out again, the intestinal bacteria take what they need, create vitamins themselves in ways humans can not and give us what we need.

 

[Stonefree69]

To me chemical feeding is like eating fastfood, injecting pure easy to break down forms of protein, fat and sugar straight into the blood and adding vitamin pills to keep healthy. As long as you don't overdo it the result will be fine. Though if I were a cannibal I probably wouldn't want to touch the flesh of someone who frequents Mc Donalds. Whereas with organic it's eating natural food with lots of fibers and fats and sugars that take energy to convert and break down. If you eat kilo's of fiber rich food you will mostly crap it out again, the intestinal bacteria take what they need, create vitamins themselves in ways humans can not and give us what we need.

I don't think I'd compare hydro nutes to McDonald's fast food:

"HYDROPONIC PRODUCE AND HEALTH - In 1994 a test was commissioned by an investment group to determine the vitamin and mineral content of hydroponically grown crops in comparison to soil grown crops, both organic and nonorganic. Plant Research Technologies Laboratory in San Jose, California, analyzed tomatoes and sweet peppers; those hydroponically grown used General Hydroponics' "Flora" nutrients. The hydroponic produce showed a significant increase in vitamins and minerals beneficial to human health over the soilgrown produce.

This data indicates the importance of a calibrated nutrient solution. The crops had been grown following the Dutch recommendation for hydroponic tomatoes and sweet peppers, and not only were they of higher nutritional value, the flavor was reported to be outstanding.

The hydroponic crops were further analyzed to search for chemicals on the EPA’s "priority pollutant list", of which, none were found.

Although hydroponically grown produce, while usually free of pesticide and other chemical hazards, does not generally meet the rather narrow definitions of "organic", it can offer superior flavor,
nutrition, appearance, freshness and she1flife." Source: http://www.generalhydroponics.com/ge...nicArticle.pdf


"The minerals that a plant requires for growth are absorbed by the plant's root system after they have been broken down into their basic elements and dissolved by water. By the time the plant ingests these mineral elements, they are no different from prepared nutrients. For example, nitrogen, an essential mineral element, whether derived from organic or inorganic matter, has the exact same molecular structure and appearance when observed under a microscope. Simply stated, nature's elements cannot be changed regardless of how they are obtained or processed.

Plant nutrition is a term that takes into account the interrelationships of mineral elements in the soil or soilless solution as well as their role in plant growth. The interrelationship involves a complex balance of mineral elements essential and beneficial for optimum plant growth. In prepared hydroponic nutrients minerals are designated inorganic, however they are natural.
Webster's dictionary definition of natural; as provided by nature.

Through extensive research, scientists have been able to determine a plant's exact nutrient requirement at both the vegetative and flowering stages. Researchers isolated the ideal parts per million (ppm) of each individual trace element required. In hydroponics, optimum growth is achieved through natural mineral supplements. Plants are fed exactly what they require, thus eliminating waste. Should a problem occur in a hydroponic garden mineral imbalances are easily identified and adjusted if necessary." Source: http://www.hydroponics.com/howtoinfo/hydroponics articles/organic_vs_inorganic.html


It's not like they make hydroponic nutrients out of a nuclear waste dump. If there's arsenic or whatever trace chemical that's in there, they'll tell you. Organics? Well maybe in an old growth forest it won't have those toxins. Maybe.

 

[sprinkl]

That is true, I'm sure that a well grown hydroponic plant can be just as good or even better than an organic grown plant.
Thing is when the environment is less than ideal the plant can be more susceptible
for diseases, as there is less protection or buffering from the microorganisms that feed the roots(offcourse there are lots of products that simulate this natural protection, vitamins etc). It can also mean the plant is growing less than ideal and is getting too much food.
What I was refering to was the most horrible tasting weeds I've smoked, which were mostly grown in soil with chemical nutrients.
People don't measure EC, use suggested doses on the bottle which are often too much, and the soil and plant have a lot of salt build-up that never gets flushed out properly. I've had plenty of weed that was hard and brittle in an unnatural way, I think simply because there was so much salt build-up in the plant.
I just have a feeling that if you're this unknowing you couldn't achieve as bad results with organic food as the microorganisms simply can't feed the plant that much in bad conditions. You'd have a lot more weed if grown chemically, it'd just be heavy with unprocessed minerals. The organic overdosed/in bad condition grown weed would yield less, but better tasting weed.

 

[trichrider]

in the case of concentrations you're probably much safer. heavy metals would build up in the leaf/stem/roots and sequester there (hopefully only there) providing oil/concentrate devoid of detritus.

i'm gonna smoke regardless.

puff puff pass

 

[Jbonez]

Fuck, I've been thinking about this. I've been smoking the popcorn nugs that have been sitting in trim bags for fucking weeks (yeah, whatever). These plants were not properly flushed, the trim not properly dried (duh). The ash crumbles hard and chalky white, so there's definitely some sort of residue. When burned, the shit sparks, crackles and pops. It's off-putting for sure. And I do wonder about the effects...intuitively I know that they can't be good. Food or weed, at the end of the day it's got to be organic. The fact that the distinction even has to be made points to the severity of our problem.

Funny, on unflushed bud Ive never witnessed this ancient magic fire dance in the bowl... I must not have enough experience growing weed, maybe once I step my game up and get some more grows under my belt, Ill come across this phenomenon, adhering to proper protocol to avoid it from happening in the future.. lol

 

[Jbonez]

I got some mandarins recently from a harddiscounter store.
They taste awful, really acidic while they are already starting to rot so definitely ripe somehow though it tastes nowhere near ripe, just acid and chemmy, it even pinches/burns on my tongue and not just because they're so acidic, I've eaten enough unripe fruit to know it's not from the (natural) acid.
I think pesticides wouldn't go through the peel.

This is the first time I linked bad tasting fruit to chemically overfed/unflushed, never had it this worse that I made the link. When my dog doesn't want it to me that means it's definitely unnatural garbage. He eats any fruit and vegetables, even the often bitter skin...

Also the best way to taste for residual chemicals in weed is by smoking joints. Often it only starts getting slightly bad after half a joint. If you just smoke bowls you might never notice this. When the taste remains pure up until the last bit of the joint, where a bunch of resin(and when badly flushed also the chemicals) accumulates on the last few hits. Then you know you really have well flushed weed.

Facepalm...

As a veteran PMR feeder, the fact that your dog didnt want the fruit had nothing to do with the "chemicals" in your fruit.. What dogs and cats do not like, is citric acid, and this is fact(could explain the acidity of the fruit as well, hm...) .. Combine this with the fact that dogs are carnivores, albeit opportunistic, but nevertheless carnivores, and you have an objective answer to why your dog wasnt chomping at the bits to eat your fruit.. Or, your theory, he sensed the nutrients in the orange you were trying to feed him... yeah, about that...

Im sorry, but I gotta step in on misleading information used to backup an already struggling theory...

If you want info on how to feed your dog the right way, pm me...

 

[immaculate]

Funny, on unflushed bud Ive never witnessed this ancient magic fire dance in the bowl... I must not have enough experience growing weed, maybe once I step my game up and get some more grows under my belt, Ill come across this phenomenon, adhering to proper protocol to avoid it from happening in the future.. lol

Okay, well maybe I made the wrong conclusion...my fault dude. I wasn't addressing anyone specifically. I've heard before about popping and sparking, maybe have noticed it a couple of times, but it's just ridiculous with these popcorn nugs...like a sparkler...and the ash turns all chalky...could it be chlorophyll? I just don't know what would cause it, that's all...

 

[Jbonez]

Okay, well maybe I made the wrong conclusion...my fault dude. I wasn't addressing anyone specifically. I've heard before about popping and sparking, maybe have noticed it a couple of times, but it's just ridiculous with these popcorn nugs...like a sparkler...and the ash turns all chalky...could it be chlorophyll? I just don't know what would cause it, that's all...

Not really, that same conclusion has been drawn on by most.

The reason for the crackle and popping is more to do with gaseous water vapor, hell even the bud itself must become vaporized before it is incinerated, ANY pockets of water vapor trapped in the bud will become a gas, with heat applied, water vapor expands in the little crevices and pockets of the "dried" product, creating pressure and finally a small popping from the explosion..

ANY dried plant product containing any traces of water, ect. will crackle and pop... Please tell me youve seen a campfire, or bonfire of some sort, my case is made here alone...

Dont ge me wrong, I get the crackles and pops in perfectly dried, cured bud too sometimes, but the sparks dancing around the bowl imvho is nothing more than non expended flint particulates from your lighter, coupled with the crackle and pop of the product and you now have phenomena that is tied into the flushing theory somehow... Flushing does one thing, it removes excess nutrients from your medium...

As it should, before turning to ash, your product becomes carbon, which is black.. I draw the correlation here because improperly dried bud ALWAYS turns black, moisture is preventing the product from being expended completely, leaving a black charred look.. Keep hitting it tho, and itll turn white eventually...

I never get that charred look, just regular whitish silver ashes homie.. Again, the dry and cure is where its at.

The drying process needs to be as long as possible, with at least a few weeks of good cure, Id say 3 or more, the final product is nothing short of amazing..

 

[headband 707]

The vermiculite holds water and perlite doesn't, popular when mixed about 50/50 w/perlite for soil-less mixes. Sphagnum moss also popular to mix with. Since your using promix I'd guess that does the job of holding water, etc...

LOL yeah I knew that I just don't see much difference between the two fillers is what I meant. Yeah this promix has the moss in it it's a pretty light mixture for a medium... stay safe headband 707

 

[sprinkl]

Facepalm...

As a veteran PMR feeder, the fact that your dog didnt want the fruit had nothing to do with the "chemicals" in your fruit.. What dogs and cats do not like, is citric acid, and this is fact(could explain the acidity of the fruit as well, hm...) .. Combine this with the fact that dogs are carnivores, albeit opportunistic, but nevertheless carnivores, and you have an objective answer to why your dog wasnt chomping at the bits to eat your fruit.. Or, your theory, he sensed the nutrients in the orange you were trying to feed him... yeah, about that...

Im sorry, but I gotta step in on misleading information used to backup an already struggling theory...

If you want info on how to feed your dog the right way, pm me...

Our dog isnt the average dog, he loves a lot of food, always curious when im cooking to get a taste of anything. He chooses brown bread over white bread, and he loves fruit and veggies almost as much as he does meat. We cant give him bones as he tries to eat them rather than chew them. Last year he stole our chocolate eggs for easter, taking one bag at a time to the yard. After 3 bags, 750 grams he stopped and became pretty sick. Same happened with big blocks of cheese a few times, still loves cheese tho.

Anyway those mandarins were foul, not ripe not unripe, not natural. Im pretty sure they were messed with somehow.. It has to pretty damn bitter or acidic, like grapefruit, for the dog to dislike it.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

You can give him the bones ..just ensure they are RAW bones and not cooked. Its only cooked bones (with maybe the addition of massive femer bones that can break their teeth) that are dangerous.

RAW meaty bones are what dogs are designed and supposed to eat. Chicken bones and the a like are actually very soft.. dogs have no problem chomping through them.



There is some controversy however in feeding your dog a mixed diet of RAW meaty bones in addition to regular dog food. Many say you should pick one or the other and fully convert to full prey model raw diet. Others say its not an issue. I don't think its a problem to occasionally give the dog a raw meaty bone snack even if your feeding kibble.

Careful what you feed your dog in regards to people food. Some things (like raisins, chocolate, etc) are very bad for dogs.



//sorry off-topic.

 

[Jbonez]

Our dog isnt the average dog, he loves a lot of food, always curious when im cooking to get a taste of anything. He chooses brown bread over white bread, and he loves fruit and veggies almost as much as he does meat. We cant give him bones as he tries to eat them rather than chew them. Last year he stole our chocolate eggs for easter, taking one bag at a time to the yard. After 3 bags, 750 grams he stopped and became pretty sick. Same happened with big blocks of cheese a few times, still loves cheese tho.

Anyway those mandarins were foul, not ripe not unripe, not natural. Im pretty sure they were messed with somehow.. It has to pretty damn bitter or acidic, like grapefruit, for the dog to dislike it.

As I stated, dogs are opportunistic carnivores, you are essentially destroying your dogs natural diet by giving him all that shit.

Research PMR and see why what you are doing is not only wrong, but harmful to your beloved pet...

Dogs do best on a diet of varied raw meats for proteins and amino acids, raw bones for calcium and firm fecal matter and assorted organs for vitamins and minerals. Kibble cannot do this, and causes health imbalances, tartar build up, ect.. One of my dogs is 4 and has perfectly white teeth, not a single shred of tartar buildup from all the raw bones, doesnt require his anal glands to be squeezed because of the natural firmness of his feces and doesnt have any odors requiring baths, no fleas, no flea medication and my dogs levels are spot on..

I dont expect everyone to care for their pets the way I do, they are my children and part of my family, and as such, are treated that way, including the best possible diet, I feed my cat on this diet as well...

Humans have cooked their meat for so long we are no longer tolerant to the microbes and bacterias in fresh meat, dogs however, not far enough removed from wolves, do not have a problem with raw meat or bones for that matter, so long as stated subsequently, the bones are raw, and they are not large cattle femur bones, or load bearing bones..

I should add that I dont view you in a negative light, Id say on average, we are all told how to take care of our animals, instead of doing the research ourselves to provide them with the best possible diet.

Vets push certain brands of dog food, and will not support RAW for this reason, healthy pets do not require Vet visits often, thusly negating the Vet from promoting raw.. Its all about money..

 

[Hydro-Soil]

You made mention of tests as a support for your claims a couple times in this thread. You don't know what the tests are but are sure that they exist and that the results from such tests back your claim.

I'm a science guy. Somebody mentions tests and now you have my interest. Can't name the analyses? Darn, I thought you had something there. I'll leave you to telling stories then. I apologize for interrupting.

Sorry, been away for a few days...

Nice attitude... life must suck for you.

Do you know the name of the test for testing for THC or CBD? No. But you still believe that the test exists.

Love your logic. I don't know the name of a test, therefore it must not exist. Wow.

Stay Safe!

p.s. I've come across several reports in the past... of lab results where the technicians were also discussing excessive levels of nutrients in their samples. The name of the 'tests' in question that determined these levels were not named. No... I don't have links. Sorry.

 

[immaculate]

Not really, that same conclusion has been drawn on by most.

The reason for the crackle and popping is more to do with gaseous water vapor, hell even the bud itself must become vaporized before it is incinerated, ANY pockets of water vapor trapped in the bud will become a gas, with heat applied, water vapor expands in the little crevices and pockets of the "dried" product, creating pressure and finally a small popping from the explosion..

ANY dried plant product containing any traces of water, ect. will crackle and pop... Please tell me youve seen a campfire, or bonfire of some sort, my case is made here alone...

Dont ge me wrong, I get the crackles and pops in perfectly dried, cured bud too sometimes, but the sparks dancing around the bowl imvho is nothing more than non expended flint particulates from your lighter, coupled with the crackle and pop of the product and you now have phenomena that is tied into the flushing theory somehow... Flushing does one thing, it removes excess nutrients from your medium...

As it should, before turning to ash, your product becomes carbon, which is black.. I draw the correlation here because improperly dried bud ALWAYS turns black, moisture is preventing the product from being expended completely, leaving a black charred look.. Keep hitting it tho, and itll turn white eventually...

I never get that charred look, just regular whitish silver ashes homie.. Again, the dry and cure is where its at.

The drying process needs to be as long as possible, with at least a few weeks of good cure, Id say 3 or more, the final product is nothing short of amazing..

Okay, that makes sense I think...I just never really noticed such an intense crackle and pop with any other "proper" bud...mind you, what i'm currently smoking is the shake and popcorn nugs of trimmed buds, but it's SUPER dry from months ago....the flint sparks over the bowl...i know EXACTLY what you mean there (lol i always found that interesting)...this is a bit beyond that...actually or maybe it isnt...as you say, even "dry bud" could have moisture...i seem to not have it with bud that i consider more moist than this shit though.....you can hear this shit when it burns, its so loud...like fire popping/moisture...a sizzle...so moisture? impurities? but its so "dry"...it crumbles..

even the finished product is not done the best it could bbe...and i notice that the plant itself seems to absorb the smell of the "de odorizers" used so that the nug just smells like that shit...i wonder about this particular shit...ive never noticed it like this before, but the funny thing is i know exactly where its coming from..thanks for your reply

 

[frito bandito]

smoked the second sample a few days ago and today. this was a bubblegum plant which got plain water for around 3-5 days. it definitely has an unflushed chemical taste. I gave it three more days of plain water after cutting samples before the final chop and its drying now, so we'll see how it turns out...

 

[Stonefree69]

smoked the second sample a few days ago and today. this was a bubblegum plant which got plain water for around 3-5 days. it definitely has an unflushed chemical taste. I gave it three more days of plain water after cutting samples before the final chop and its drying now, so we'll see how it turns out...

There just might be a "cure" for that unflushed chemical taste. IDK, I never flush in hydro, never underfeed or overfeed either - my EC/ppms tell me what to do each top off or weekly res change.

To quote DrTrichome: "Also, for all of you using other brands of nutrients (House & Garden Aqua Flakes, Advanced 3-part or Sensi Bloom A+B or Connoisseur, or Fox Farm hydro, or whatever) can use this same method to enhance the value of your nutrients.

When you fill your buckets or reservoir with solution at say, 800ppm, then after a few days (more or less) some has evaporated and some has been absorbed and transpired by the plants. If at this point, before topping off with water, if the tds is less than 800ppm, say 650ppm, then the solution was too weak to begin with and could be higher than 800ppm. On the other hand, if the tds rises with the water level lowering, say now it is 1000ppm, then it was too strong to begin with and should be less than the original 800ppm. Of course as the plant grows taller and bushier and reaches different stages of flowering, it may have different requirements but this will eliminate the potential of lockout issues due to the tds getting too high when you are too busy to maintain it for a day or more. Once dialed in to your plants needs, the water level can drop as much as you need, without affecting the tds or pH of the solution. With every top-off of water, nutrient will need to be added since the plants are now up-taking an even ratio of water-to-nutrients.

I have seen a noticeable improvement of overall growth, yield and reduction of maintenance once I implemented this method of adding nutrients to my bubble bucket systems. I am confident that it will improve yours as well. Let me know if you have any questions about it. Peace"