Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[jerry111165]

like I said most plants....but there are some like grapefruit, timewarp, semi-autos, etc that will start flowering in veg when they are root restricted and have ample P in the root zone, in my experience (as a stoner scientist)

Stoner Scientist, your plants flower in veg? Seriously? All kidding aside?

Can you explain what "ample P in the root zone" means? What are you using for so much P that your plants start flowering in veg?

J

Btw, thanks in advance.


Edit: by the way, what makes you think that "ample P" has anything whatsoever to do with flowering anyhow?

 

[Vhghost]

hehehe ... well then ...
i stuck to Lc's soiless mix#1 and Recipe #1 with a twist... i agree with jerry tho, so i went with a tried and tested mix ..
2.5 parts Peat moss
2.5 parts Coco coir
3 parts perlite
2 parts wormcastings
1 part sea soil compost
******************************
2 TBS/gal dolomite lime
1 TBS/gal blood meal
2 TBS/gal bone meal
.5TBS/gal Bat Guano high in P
1 TBS/gal kelp meal
2 TBS/gal alfalfa meal
1 TBS/gal green sand

I hope that should cover most of the bases.. watered it with 1TBS/gal Black strap molasses, and turn it every now and then for 2 weeks while keeping it wet.
hows that mix sound ?
will be starting with seeds so i will follow the instructions from the very first post on the thread.

When I'm working with seeds, I punch a hole in the bottom of 16 ounce cups and fill them with plain LC's Mix. Lightly wet the mix in the cups and germinate one seed in each cup. At the same time I mix enough LC's mix along with the blood/bone/kelp to fill all the 3 gallon flower pots I'm going to use for the grow. After about two weeks, the seedlings and the blood/bone/kelp mix are ready. I transplant the seedlings into the 3 gallon pots and just add water until harvest.
When you go to flower and pull up the males, save the mix in the pots. It is ready to be used again immediately. Just remove the root ball and transplant another seedling into it.

 

[SeaMaiden]

C-ray, I have observed that restricted root growth space seems to force faster onset of flowering, irrespective of the media used or feeding regimen.

 

[jerry111165]

C-ray, I have observed that restricted root growth space seems to force faster onset of flowering, irrespective of the media used or feeding regimen.

So you're saying that if I leave a plant in a cup that it will force flowering - regardless of light cycle?

J

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Try a shot-glass!!

 

[Microbeman]

IME/IMO switching a plant from one sort of soil to another for different phases of the plant's life is not using living soil optimally. This technique is more a reflection of old style high 'P' in flower/fruit chemical based growing.

When it comes to natural style gardening in living soil, I have not noticed a heck of a big difference in requirements between cultivars, however it is not like I've worked with a gazillion (cannabis) races (strains) [sic].

 

[Microbeman]

I dont believe that there is coir in Pro-Mix, unless you buy this specific one - http://www.pthorticulture.com/en/pro-mix-hp-cc-mycorrhizae-growing-medium/ - unfortunately, Ive never seen this particular type anywhere in any of the stores. For some reason Home Depot, and even all of the nurseries (at least around me) just dont carry this specific type - All I ever see is the ProMix BX or the regular standard type. I think they'd sell alot more of it if they did push the "HP CC" type at Home Depot and all the other big box type stores.

I used to grow (seems like forever ago now) in straight coir before I went organic some years ago. I gotta say, I do love the texture and overall performance of coir.


http://www.pthorticulture.com/en/pro-mix-bx-mycorrhizae-growing-medium/

http://www.pthorticulture.com/en/pro-mix-bx-biofungicide-biostimulant-growing-medium/

http://www.pthorticulture.com/en/pro-mix-flex-growing-medium-professional/

Just make sure you get the right one if youre looking for coir.

j

Jerry; Do you consider coir (coco?) to be not organic? Coir and coco are the same thing right? I've never used it, having either used hydro with pebbles or soil growing.

What did you like about it?

 

[jerry111165]

Sure its organic. Many bags of the product say "coco coir" on them, for whatever reason people call the product either/or. I used the "canna" brand for several years when I was doing my Coir phase with bottled nutrients. The Canna product was shredded to an even consistency - I never really liked the compressed blocks very much.

Consistency, well drained but also, at the same time held moisture well. It was a hydroponic medium for me that I was able to hand water every three or four days. I will say that if I didn't get into organics that that's the way that I would probably still be gardening.

J

 

[Microbeman]

Sure its organic. Many bags of the product say "coco coir" on them, for whatever reason people call the product either/or. I used the "canna" brand for several years when I was doing my Coir phase with bottled nutrients. The Canna product was shredded to an even consistency - I never really liked the compressed blocks very much.

Consistency, well drained but also, at the same time held moisture well. It was a hydroponic medium for me that I was able to hand water every three or four days. I will say that if I didn't get into organics that that's the way that I would probably still be gardening.

J

Okay still slightly mystified by "Sure its organic" vs "if I didn't get into organics that that's the way that I would probably still be gardening"

Is it less organic? Not trying to be a contrary...just looking for your opinion, which I've grown to respect.

 

[jerry111165]

I "think" coir is basically an organic product - but we're the coconuts grown organically? Who can tell?

I think I was confusing in my post. I used the coir in a non-organic manner; I used straight coir as a medium for several years, hand watering hydroponic nutrients through this medium. Due to its great drainage properties, and yet still holds water, I only needed to water/feed every 3-4 days, which is great when compared to most conventional hydro setups.

It really is a fantastic medium for hydro, but from what I understand, sphagnum peat has a much better CeC value, so I use it with my organics these days. A mix of the 2? Might do very well. I can see it doing well for either hydro or organic gardening, but would need to be at least mixed with peat. Like I said, if I hadn't gotten turned on to organics, I'd still be using coco in a hydro setup. Sorry for the confusion.

J

 

[Vhghost]

in my mix i used 1 part sphagnum peat with 1 part coco...
i really really like the way they mixed together, almost like its got memory.. bounces back when i try and compress it its very nice

 

[Vhghost]

hey guys, i was wondering what is the best environment for the cooking period for my soil. reason i am asking is bc i have had it outside for the last few days, but i'm pretty sure inside in a warm place is probably better
your thoughts would be appreciated

 

[Microbeman]

Thanks J

 

[SeaMaiden]

So you're saying that if I leave a plant in a cup that it will force flowering - regardless of light cycle?

J

If we were to distill down what I'm saying, then yes, in essence that's correct and would jive with my experience.

Perhaps outlining the observations made will be helpful here. I grow primarily outdoors, and prefer to grow outdoors (I hate the idea of paying for light when we have the Big Metal Halide in the Sky). When I get my season going, I usually start quite a lot of seeds, which is again my own preferred method. I don't like working with clones so much, especially outdoors, specifically for their growth habits as compared to a straight seed start.

So, I've had the opportunity to start a lot of seeds, outside, and finish them outside, in different cultivation scenarios. In-ground, raised beds, pots and planters. I've used both organic soil, chem salt-fed soils, and hempy tubs using perlite only. I've used a variety of sizes of containers, and the results are this--restrict the size of the root zone and those girls are going to go into flower sooner than those who have lots of room for their roots, and they'll also finish faster. Every time.

At first I thought it was varietal-dependent, but then as I began doing more runs of the same lines (I have a friend who does breeding and his work is extremely consistent), and ending up not being able to put all into the preferred cultivation situation (raised beds for me), forced me to put good ladies into smaller containers. Because of my own physical limitations, if it's going to be something that I have to be able to move myself I can't go above 5gals, which for me is really pushing it (even 3gal pots that have just been watered are hard on my back).

I now know that I can be running the exact same thing in almost the exact same conditions, the only difference(s) being pot size and location (balcony about 30' off the ground vs the aforementioned raised beds) and the potted plants will not only set bud first, they'll be done around 2 weeks before the in-ground/raised bed plants.

Since they're all outdoors, on the same property, and experiencing the exact same photoperiod, feeding and schedules, there is really only one other conclusion I can come to, and that's the size of the root zone having an effect.

In the meantime, I have my indoor experience to go from as well, and this is where I tend to always use clones instead of seed starts. I use separate vegetative phase and regenerative phase areas. I may have girls that I've put into 1-2gal pots in preparation for flowering them out, and at the same time I may have their identical siblings in those ubiquitous beer cups. They're in the same 'room' (raised enclosed box) on the exact same photoperiod. The girls in the pots will continue vegging along, and the girls in the beer cups, if left in them, will begin to flower, irrespective of photoperiod. We certainly have plenty of 'my clone is flowering and it's on 18/6!" threads around here to suggest this may be true, yes?

In conclusion, in my experience, as I said, with all else being equal, if you have one lady of the exact same variety in a smaller container than a sister (including clones), it's going to be the girl in the smaller container who begins and finishes flowering first. I won't and don't begin to offer reasons as to why this is, but it is my observation.

 

[minds_I]

Hello all,

B1, I am using LC's#1 admendment recipe #1 principly.

My compost was a 50/50 mix of worm casting and chicken manure (Stutzmans).

I made teas using ewc and healthy amounts of chicken shit (who needs over-priced and likely over-hyped Peruvian sea-bird guano) and molasses. Did not dilute...went straight to the plant.

The last two weeks or so, I have been just leaning out the chciken shit contribution to the teas and increasing the molasses.

So, I am within 6 days to harvest and just have a ewc/molasses tea brewing now and it is my intention to just finish with water after this tea.

My question to you is do I need to flush?

Buahahaha, no. It is should I even feed this last tea in order to induce the girls to use stored nutes? They are yellowing and the foliag is thinning on its own (plus a little help). Still though, the bigger buds are very green and healthy looking.

I do like this soilless mix to be sure. I will amend it in the spring for re-use.

minds_I

 

[BurnOne]

My opinion has always been this; The buds put on the most weight right before harvest. I feed them right up until the end. I do let the plant dry out and droop a little before I cut it down but I feed them all I can. Think about this... Does God flush the food on earth right before the harvest?
Burn1

 

[Swayze]

If you understand what you're putting into your soil mix, flushing is a horrible thing. The microbes are hard at work breaking down your amendments to become available to feed this plant and future plants. Think about those who recycle their soil or run no-till setups, they are able to add less and less amendments each time because the long term materials are finally being broken down into a plant friendly form. If you flush or stop watering before the chop you're ruining everything you've work this long to achieve. Keep the soil moist and the microbes alive.

 

[BlueJayWay]

^^^^ 3 weeks in I have 4 in 5 gal, same soil from last run that was not disturbed in the bucket, and 8 in "new" amended recycled soil mix.... They all look identical in growth.

 

[Dignan]

^^^^ 3 weeks in I have 4 in 5 gal, same soil from last run that was not disturbed in the bucket, and 8 in "new" amended recycled soil mix.... They all look identical in growth.

Very important. ^ Very telling. Very much ignored by most organic growers.

 

[vonforne]

This thread has become a cult classic. lol Cool.

V