Input on my "water only" possible no-till soil mix

[youngbud11]

Just curious, after having read through a myriad of posts by CC, Gasc, Scrappy, Smiley, and others, when reamending a no till soil in the same pot, do I need to worry about the accumulation of top dressings eventually overflowing the top of my container? Also in a no till operation, should one be worried about soil compaction over the long haul? I apologize if im hijacking this thread, but the questions seemed relevant.

Youngbud

 

[MissGreenDreamz]

youngbud, some of ours got near full. I wish that I had left a little more room at the top for extra EWC etc... got hard to water some. ~mgd

 

[highstandards]

HS

You should be able to buy rice hulls from the same source as the straight Sphagnum but before you do that, consider going to a landscape wholesale supplier (where landscapers get their bulk materials) and see if they don't have lava rock and perhaps Pumice.

You're going to be needing about 1.4 c.y. which is 36 bags of whatever amendment you go with. Buying bags is pretty nuts so see what they offer. Times are tough for that and other sectors of the retail services economy and cash talks.

But if you want rice hulls and the supplier doesn't carry them the call beer brewery suppliers that sell to the microbreweries. Rice hulls are used as a filter in the process but I couldn't tell you how it's used specifically. You could also ask them about spent rice hulls which are great to use as well.

See if your supplier can get you Pumice in totes (1 c.y.) save money.

Renting a cement mixer on mixing day wouldn't be a bad idea either. Pretty cheap rates at Home Depot, et al.

CC

First off, thanks again! I feel like I'm getting close to finishing this mix and I have high hopes for the product!

Would you suggest that I use the rice hulls along with the pumice, or choose one or the other? I'm not really clear on what the advantages that rice hulls provide would be or if I should even incorporate them.

Here is what I found for the horse chestnut powder, does this look good? Also, how much will I need to use? And any specifics on how I should apply it to the peat?

So my mix now consists of:

1 part sunshine peat (approx 10cu ft each)
2/3 part pumice
1/3 part rice hulls
1 part agrowinn castings

Plus:

Kelp - 10lbs
Alfalfa - 10lbs
Agrowinn rock dust - 10 cups
Limestone - 5 cups
Gypsum - 5 cups
Fish bone meal - 10 lbs
Fish meal - 10lbs
Crab shell meal - 10lbs
Neem cake - 10cups


Are there any other items I really should add? How do my amounts of each ingredient look? Don't be afraid to offer some constructive criticism! I want to get this mix right...

Thanks again and in advance!

 

[highstandards]

Just curious, after having read through a myriad of posts by CC, Gasc, Scrappy, Smiley, and others, when reamending a no till soil in the same pot, do I need to worry about the accumulation of top dressings eventually overflowing the top of my container? Also in a no till operation, should one be worried about soil compaction over the long haul? I apologize if im hijacking this thread, but the questions seemed relevant.

Youngbud

Good question

Anyone tried this in 10gallons or similar sized pots?

 

[ixnay007]

If you're doing your top dressing with fresh greens, and your soil is living, you'll notice that the level goes down with time. As for the compression question, roots and worms will keep your soil well aerated, that plus a quality adjunct like pumice or lava rock or calcined molar clay will prevent the soil from becoming too compact.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

First off, thanks again! I feel like I'm getting close to finishing this mix and I have high hopes for the product!

Would you suggest that I use the rice hulls along with the pumice, or choose one or the other? I'm not really clear on what the advantages that rice hulls provide would be or if I should even incorporate them.

Here is what I found for the horse chestnut powder, does this look good? Also, how much will I need to use? And any specifics on how I should apply it to the peat?

So my mix now consists of:

1 part sunshine peat (approx 10cu ft each)
2/3 part pumice
1/3 part rice hulls
1 part agrowinn castings

Plus:

Kelp - 10lbs
Alfalfa - 10lbs
Agrowinn rock dust - 10 cups
Limestone - 5 cups
Gypsum - 5 cups
Fish bone meal - 10 lbs
Fish meal - 10lbs
Crab shell meal - 10lbs
Neem cake - 10cups


Are there any other items I really should add? How do my amounts of each ingredient look? Don't be afraid to offer some constructive criticism! I want to get this mix right...

Thanks again and in advance!

Start mixing! LOL

Nice soil mix, IMHO

CC

 

[highstandards]

Haha, thanks!

I forgot to include the link for the horse chestnut powder, http://naturedocsherbshop.auctivaco...edium=Product_Search&utm_campaign=google_base

Does this look like the right stuff? Now once I figure out how to apply the horse chestnut powder to the peat I will be off and runnin'!

 

[ClackamasCootz]

How much peat moss to you want to pre-hydrate at a time?

 

[highstandards]

Im thinking that about 12 cubic feet would be perfect to start my first mix

 

[highstandards]

I've come across a couple of sources that recommend that I "pre-hydrate" the meals that I plan to use as well, any info you have on that would be appreciated as well.

Also, I just read though the rock dust thread again last night; should I be adding more rock dust to a total mix of 35cu ft?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Let me do some figuring - I'll be back later.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

I've come across a couple of sources that recommend that I "pre-hydrate" the meals that I plan to use as well, any info you have on that would be appreciated as well.

Also, I just read though the rock dust thread again last night; should I be adding more rock dust to a total mix of 35cu ft?

Pre-hydrating anything is a good idea. That's what commercial potting soil mixes are - hydrated. Gives the illusion of being 'fresh' - LMAO

The rock dust idea is a good one - particularly the mineral mix you're going to be using.

CC

 

[highstandards]

Let me do some figuring - I'll be back later.

Look forward to hearing what you come up with

Pre-hydrating anything is a good idea. That's what commercial potting soil mixes are - hydrated. Gives the illusion of being 'fresh' - LMAO

The rock dust idea is a good one - particularly the mineral mix you're going to be using.

CC

Lol.

Cool, I'm thinking I'll double what I was planning on using

 

[YosemiteSam]

Rice hulls...if you have a micro brewery in your area they should be willing to give them to you after their use. Otherwise they pay to have them hauled away.

 

[VerdantGreen]

Im looking to create a rich soil mix that I can use plain water on throughout, which at harvest time I can hopefully just top dress and then re-use, "no till" style. Or if not, I will at least recycle it.

I'm going to start this project with batches of about 35 cu ft of soil. So far, my mix is as follows:

1 part peat
1 part perlite (or possibly rice hulls, input needed here)
1 part vermicompost (most likely Agrowinn)

And to this base mix im thinking I will add:......

it looks good, i use similar proportions of peat and perlite, with 20% loam topsoil and 20% ewc/compost. does well for me. ive only recently started recycling and thats working too.

im in UK so not so many perlite alternatives, but perlite has always worked great for me and makes a lot of difference in weight - as i have to lug heavy pots around in awkward spaces.

CC is right about the price. here we have to buy 100 litres before it gets anywhere near reasonably priced for volume.

luckily we have less guns, strong bags and no hurricanes here in the UK

good luck

VG

 

[ClackamasCootz]

highstandards

When the Horse Chestnut powder arrives, take a gallon jug and add 2 quarts of water. Add 1.5 teaspoons of the powder and shake this as hard as possible. You should see 2 - 4" of foam. If that's the case then figure that you want to add 1 tablespoon to each gallon of water.

I'm estimating that you will need 20 - 25 gallons of treated water for the peat moss. Once the peat moss is hydrated it will not be necessary to treat the water that you'll use to hydrate the final mix.

You can reduce the amount that you need by spraying the peat moss with straight water on one day which will partially get things moving so when you do the a spray the next day with treated water things will move forward much faster.

You'll see what's up once you start handling the base materials. Too bad you don't live in Oregon - you could take all of your materials to a mixing operation and for about $50.00 you would be heading home with bagged, hydrated potting soil - just like in the big city at Harry's Hydro

"Ain't rocket science"

CC

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Rice hulls...if you have a micro brewery in your area they should be willing to give them to you after their use. Otherwise they pay to have them hauled away.

Listen to YS - great source and they're inoculated with lactobacillus bacteria, yeasts, enzymes, etc.

Probably better than 'fresh' rice hulls or even the parboiled versions out of Arkansas

 

[jerry111165]

CC, regular, straight water won't hydrate the peat? How does the yucca help? Does it just take longer without the yucca?

Just trying to wrap my head around this.

TIA.

J

 

[Scrappy4]

CC, regular, straight water won't hydrate the peat? How does the yucca help? Does it just take longer without the yucca?

Just trying to wrap my head around this.

TIA.

J

Perhaps this link can help......scrappy

http://www.uaex.edu/Other_Areas/publications/PDF/FSA-6097.pdf

Greenhouse and Nursery Series​

Growing Media for Container Production in a Greenhouse or Nursery​

Part I (Components and Mixes) ​

[FONT=BDCID A+ Helvetica,Helvetica][FONT=BDCID A+ Helvetica,Helvetica]James A. Robbins [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=BDCID A+ Helvetica,Helvetica][FONT=BDCID A+ Helvetica,Helvetica]Extension Horticulture Specialist - Ornamentals
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=BDCID A+ Helvetica,Helvetica][FONT=BDCID A+ Helvetica,Helvetica]Michael R. Evans [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=BDCID A+ Helvetica,Helvetica][FONT=BDCID A+ Helvetica,Helvetica]Associate Professor, Department of Horticulture
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=BDCIE B+ Zapf Chancery,Zapf Chancery][FONT=BDCIE B+ Zapf Chancery,Zapf Chancery]

Arkansas Is Our Campus​

[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=BDCID A+ Helvetica,Helvetica][FONT=BDCID A+ Helvetica,Helvetica]

Visit our web site at: http://www.uaex.edu​

[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=BDCIB N+ Helvetica,Helvetica][FONT=BDCIB N+ Helvetica,Helvetica]Introduction
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=BDCIE C+ New Century Schlbk,New Century Schlbk][FONT=BDCIE C+ New Century Schlbk,New Century Schlbk]Successful greenhouse and nursery production of container-grown plants is largely dependent on the chemical and physical properties of the growing media. An ideal potting medium should be free of weeds and diseases, heavy enough to avoid frequent tipping over and yet light enough to facilitate handling and shipping. The media should also be well drained and yet retain sufficient water to reduce the frequency of watering. Other parameters to consider include cost, availability, consistency between batches and stability in the media over time.
Selection of the proper media components is critical to the successful production of plants.
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=BDCIB N+ Helvetica,Helvetica][FONT=BDCIB N+ Helvetica,Helvetica]Media Components – Organic Amendments
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=BDCIB N+ Helvetica,Helvetica][FONT=BDCIB N+ Helvetica,Helvetica]Peat
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=BDCIE C+ New Century Schlbk,New Century Schlbk][FONT=BDCIE C+ New Century Schlbk,New Century Schlbk]Peat is a very common component in both nursery and greenhouse mixes. Peat is usually included in a mix to increase the water-holding capacity or to decrease the weight.
Peats used in horticulture are usually classified into three types: moss peat, reed-sedge and peat humus. Moss peat, more often called peat moss, is the most common form used in the industry and is derived mostly from sphagnum moss. [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=BDCIE D+ New Century Schlbk,New Century Schlbk][FONT=BDCIE D+ New Century Schlbk,New Century Schlbk]Peat moss [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=BDCIE C+ New Century Schlbk,New Century Schlbk][FONT=BDCIE C+ New Century Schlbk,New Century Schlbk]is the least decomposed form of the peat types, is typically light tan to brown in color, lightweight
(6.5 lbs/yd[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=BDCIE C+ New Century Schlbk,New Century Schlbk][FONT=BDCIE C+ New Century Schlbk,New Century Schlbk]3[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=BDCIE C+ New Century Schlbk,New Century Schlbk][FONT=BDCIE C+ New Century Schlbk,New Century Schlbk]), high in moisture-holding capacity and very acid (pH 3.8 to 4.3). A significant problem with peat moss is "wetting up." Peat moss is inherently hydrophobic (repels water). To address this situation, some suppliers offer a product with a wetting agent already included. Before using peat moss, you should conduct a simple test to see how difficult the product will be to wet. If the product does not include a wetting agent, you can incorporate one, or use hot water if available, to speed-up the wetting process. Peat moss is typically sold in compressed bales that expand 50 to
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=BDCIB N+ Helvetica,Helvetica][FONT=BDCIB N+ Helvetica,Helvetica]

Super bales of peat.​

[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=BDCIE C+ New Century Schlbk,New Century Schlbk][FONT=BDCIE C+ New Century Schlbk,New Century Schlbk]100 percent when properly fluffed. Most recipes call for peat moss on a volume basis (e.g., 50 percent peat moss:50 percent perlite, vol:vol).
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=BDCIE D+ New Century Schlbk,New Century Schlbk][FONT=BDCIE D+ New Century Schlbk,New Century Schlbk]Sphagnum moss [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=BDCIE C+ New Century Schlbk,New Century Schlbk][FONT=BDCIE C+ New Century Schlbk,New Century Schlbk]differs from moss peat (peat moss) in that it is the young residue or live portion of the plant. Sphagnum, or "top moss," is commonly used for plant shipment, propagation or to line hanging baskets. Substances have been extracted from sphagnum peat which inhibit the growth of fungi associated with damping off.
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=BDCIE D+ New Century Schlbk,New Century Schlbk][FONT=BDCIE D+ New Century Schlbk,New Century Schlbk]Reed-sedge peat [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=BDCIE C+ New Century Schlbk,New Century Schlbk][FONT=BDCIE C+ New Century Schlbk,New Century Schlbk]is formed principally from reeds, sedges, marsh grasses, cattails and other associated swamp plants and is widely used in Florida. Peat humus is usually
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=BDCID A+ Helvetica,Helvetica][FONT=BDCID A+ Helvetica,Helvetica]

University of Arkansas, United States Department of Agriculture, and County Governments Cooperating​

[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=BDCIE C+ New Century Schlbk,New Century Schlbk][FONT=BDCIE C+ New Century Schlbk,New Century Schlbk]derived from reed-sedge or hypnum moss peat and represents an advanced stage of decomposition. This type of peat is usually dark brown to black and has a low moisture-retention capacity.
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Saponins = wetting agent when applied to a soil. They're called surfactant when used as part of a foliar spray.

Saponins = makes foam. Foam allows the water or spray mix to remain in place to do what it is you want it to do.

As a spray as part of an IPM then you want the spray mix to remain on the leaf as long as possible, perhaps, for whatever reasons. As part of process to hydrate your strata, the foam keeps the water attached to the material longer which should give you a wet soil. All of that is fine but the function of Saponins in the soil and on the leaves is far more involved that making things stick to plant material. Systemic Acquired Resistance (SAR) is one reason among hundreds of others.

Saponins = tooth paste, shampoo, laundry detergent, dish soap, root beer and other carbonated drinks and a slew of industrial applications.