Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

[FatBlunt420]

Tree & Shrub is for trees and shrubs.
Bayer Complete is for fruiting and flowering plants, hence a better choice. It has imid plus a contact killer. The contact killer does not kill RAs but the imid does.
Why people keep recommending Tree & Shrub is beyond comprehension.
The longer this thread gets, the more disinformation is spread.
All you need is the recommended dosage of:

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You do not need to exceed the recommended dosage. That is how resistance is built.
Follow directions on label and you will be good.

thanks alot.
i went there intending on getting bayer complete, and found the tree and shrub.. i was told by someone else that the tree and shrub works. (it has dosage rates for containerized plants.) it looked like they were very similar. and i went with tree and shrub bcuz it said it kills aphids on the bottle.
i havent even opened it. im still waiting for my last watering to dry out before i hit them with something new.
looks like ill be returning the tree and shrub and going with bayer complete.

 

[zor]

Why people keep recommending Tree & Shrub is beyond comprehension.

tree and shrub is more concentrated than the fruit and citrus. merit 75 is even more concentrated than the tree and shrub. there is no difference in half life of the two bottles at the same imid concentration levels.

this is why people recommend the tree and schrub and merit 75 even though either of the products mentioned will give the right amount of imid if dosed properly.

this is common knowledge now.

The longer this thread gets, the more disinformation is spread.

quite the contrary imo. new info has emerged on this thread, and across the internet with more documented information as the problem of aphids continue to spread. the information we have now is much more complete over the last couple of years.

i hope everyone continues to discuss this stuff and document there success and failures for the benefit of all.

 

[RetroGrow]

thanks alot.
i went there intending on getting bayer complete, and found the tree and shrub.. i was told by someone else that the tree and shrub works. (it has dosage rates for containerized plants.) it looked like they were very similar. and i went with tree and shrub bcuz it said it kills aphids on the bottle.
i havent even opened it. im still waiting for my last watering to dry out before i hit them with something new.
looks like ill be returning the tree and shrub and going with bayer complete.

Anything with Imid will work.
The idea is to use as little pesticide as possible to get the job done. You don't want it lingering in your herb. Bayer Complete is approved for use on food crops, so that's the one I would go with. Also Bayer citrus is similar.

 

[FatBlunt420]

a fresh start

a fresh start

i just grabbed a couple more products. one was bayer complete. the other was raid fumigator. these things are way more potent then your hydro shop foggers.

im determined to beat these things... but i need some help.

after the merit75 soak, my veg still managed to show signs of aphids. the other day i did another soak but with bayer tree and shrub. im still not confident ill be beating these things.

i just got fresh aphid free clones from a friend. and my new plan is to completely scrap all my current aphid ridden clones. totally move the veg. put it into a tent,(probably a 4x8.) bug bomb and clean the tent thoroughly before anything goes in.

one issuse is getting my ez cloners completely cleaned. i always ran it through with a bleach water, clean the misters. but this time i plan on spending more time cleaning the inserts. (i always felt the inserts didnt get a good enough cleaning most times.) i need these clones to start out right. what else should i do?

this is my chance to restart aphid free.
im looking for any tips and precautions i can take.

 

[RetroGrow]

i just grabbed a couple more products. one was bayer complete. the other was raid fumigator. these things are way more potent then your hydro shop foggers.
View Image
im determined to beat these things... but i need some help.

after the merit75 soak, my veg still managed to show signs of aphids. the other day i did another soak but with bayer tree and shrub. im still not confident ill be beating these things.

i just got fresh aphid free clones from a friend. and my new plan is to completely scrap all my current aphid ridden clones. totally move the veg. put it into a tent,(probably a 4x8.) bug bomb and clean the tent thoroughly before anything goes in.

one issuse is getting my ez cloners completely cleaned. i always ran it through with a bleach water, clean the misters. but this time i plan on spending more time cleaning the inserts. (i always felt the inserts didnt get a good enough cleaning most times.) i need these clones to start out right. what else should i do?

this is my chance to restart aphid free.
im looking for any tips and precautions i can take.

They don't die right away as they are not contact killers. Plant has to absorb them, then aphids have to feed, then they die. Could take a while, maybe a week or more, depending on your situation. In my case, I used it in coco which was allowed to dry out, so the plants sucked it right up and kill rate was 100%, but it's not instantaneous.
I've used Raid Fumigator, but not on plants. It makes a gas, so penetrates behind walls, etc. Insects can't hide from the gas, but have no idea if it affects RAs, but I doubt it, seeing as how they are hard to kill. Read the label carefully and see if it says to remove plants from room being fumigated. You don't want to gas your plants to death.

 

[inreplyavalon]

Bayer complete insect killer i dont believe is for fruits or vegetables. At least not the one pictured. It says for dirt and turf. As i was buying some in the store today i realized that there is another Bayer complete that comes with a sprayer on the top. This is the bayer complete that is for fruits and veggies and it HAS NO IMID.
I read the ingredients and was surprised to see two products with Bayer Complete Insect Killer label, with entirely different ingredients.
Its pretty confusing but i think i am correct here.

I have been dealing with aphids for a while. Well over a year. I dont think eradication is possible, short of moving spaces. Control is the name of my game and so far, Imid and Met52 together have worked. I am trying a control with just Met52 this round and i'll let y'all know how it goes.

 

[FatBlunt420]

They don't die right away as they are not contact killers. Plant has to absorb them, then aphids have to feed, then they die. Could take a while, maybe a week or more, depending on your situation. In my case, I used it in coco which was allowed to dry out, so the plants sucked it right up and kill rate was 100%, but it's not instantaneous.
I've used Raid Fumigator, but not on plants. It makes a gas, so penetrates behind walls, etc. Insects can't hide from the gas, but have no idea if it affects RAs, but I doubt it, seeing as how they are hard to kill. Read the label carefully and see if it says to remove plants from room being fumigated. You don't want to gas your plants to death.

I will continue to treat those plants. my situation was really bad. it seems as if the aphids like certain strains over others. (in my case mcfly was the most aphid ridden.)

im very sure that the raid fumigator is not to be used around plants. ill be using it to prep the new area before i start rooting the clean cuts.
my main concern is getting the cloner larva free, and to keep these new clones clean.

i will be using all fresh coco, and new pots with the new clones as a precaution.

 

[RetroGrow]

Bayer complete insect killer i dont believe is for fruits or vegetables. At least not the one pictured. It says for dirt and turf. As i was buying some in the store today i realized that there is another Bayer complete that comes with a sprayer on the top. This is the bayer complete that is for fruits and veggies and it HAS NO IMID.
I read the ingredients and was surprised to see two products with Bayer Complete Insect Killer label, with entirely different ingredients.
Its pretty confusing but i think i am correct here.

I have been dealing with aphids for a while. Well over a year. I dont think eradication is possible, short of moving spaces. Control is the name of my game and so far, Imid and Met52 together have worked. I am trying a control with just Met52 this round and i'll let y'all know how it goes.

There is a new Bayer that is for fruits and veggies. It does have imid.

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/insects-pests/products/fruit-citrus-vegetable-insect-control/sizes

Look at the label and magnify it to see ingredients. All Bayer products are listed here.

 

[FoCo(No.Co)]

You do not need to exceed the recommended dosage. That is how resistance is built.

Not true. Resistance is spread when you dont use a high enough concentration and some tolerant individuals survive exposure. Then only the most pesticide-tolerant aphids are reproducing and the gene for tolerance becomes more prevalent in the following generation.

The process is excacerbated by using imid exclusively. Anyyone who has not eliminated their aphid infestation with 1 or 2 applications of imid should be rotating pesticides.

Imid alone is not a long term solution for root aphids.

 

[RetroGrow]

Not true. Resistance is spread when you dont use a high enough concentration and some tolerant individuals survive exposure. Then only the most pesticide-tolerant aphids are reproducing and the gene for tolerance becomes more prevalent in the following generation.

The process is excacerbated by using imid exclusively. Anyyone who has not eliminated their aphid infestation with 1 or 2 applications of imid should be rotating pesticides.

Imid alone is not a long term solution for root aphids.

It killed mine for good with one application.
From Wikipedia:
"Propensity of pest populations to develop resistance is probably caused by a number of factors. First, pest species are usually capable of producing large number of offspring. This increases the probability of random mutations and ensures the rapid build-up in numbers of resistant mutants once such mutations have occurred. Secondly, pest species have been exposed to natural toxins for a long time before the onset of human civilization. For example, many plants produce phytotoxins to protect them from herbivores. As a result, coevolution of herbivores and their host plants required development of the physiological capability to detoxify or tolerate poisons.[5][6] Thirdly, humans often rely almost exclusively on insecticides for pest control. This increases selection pressure towards resistance. Pesticides that fail to break down quickly and remain in the area contribute to selection for resistant organisms even after they are no longer being applied.["

 

[zor]

Pesticides that fail to break down quickly and remain in the area contribute to selection for resistant organisms even after they are no longer being applied.["

the wiki article quoted by retrogrow, refers to pesticides that linger for a long time in the same soil (aka outside).

if you have an outdoor spot that you plan on using for a while, then indeed you would not want to overdose the soil, because of the continued presence of pesticide (in low doses not enough to kill em).

in our indoor gardens, the goal is to use the proper dose to kill em in one shot, even at the expense of high doses because we, in most cases, are NOT reusing our medium. ineffective low doses for a continued period of time, in the same medium over time, leads to resistant pests.

retro grows advice of 'as low dose as possible' is contrary to common practice ,common sense, and documented experiences....

he also incorrectly claimed:

it is impossible for aphids to come in a bag /brick of coco or rockwool from the hydro store

evergreen can't possibly work

sn 203 can't possibly work

anyone who didnt have success with imid were using it wrong

the half life of imid in your soil is determined by the label on the bottle as opposed to concentration of the solution

worm castings will not help plants recover from aphid damage

aphids are more of a problem in soil than coco (contrary to experiences of palnts doing better in organics)​

 

[RetroGrow]

Zor, the trolling idiot.
You won't find a bigger imbecile on this site.

 

[FoCo(No.Co)]

It killed mine for good with one application.["

If it worked 100% for your infestation, then you were not dealing with pesticide tolerant aphids(and you applied it correctly).

That is not true for everyone. Obviously imid resistance has developed in many aphid populations because lots of growers here are reporting Bayer Complete to be ineffective in totally eradicating them.

From Wikipedia:
"This increases selection pressure towards resistance. "

Yea that's what I said.

 

[zor]

Zor, the trolling idiot.
You won't find a bigger imbecile on this site.

lol good retort. awesome how you resort to ad hominem. very helpful stuff.

 

[Guest3498]

It killed mine for good with one application.
["

Fatblunt, homie, please don't listen to a word this dude says on the subject...

Also man I'd rethink using a tent or cloner that has been in an infested area, I went and bought all new equipment for this grow... Just be careful remember it only takes 1 egg...

 

[Guest02345]

remember it only takes 1 egg...

and their nearly impossible to kill off for good

 

[FatBlunt420]

thanks guys.

other then bleach. what should i use to clean my area with??

i might go grab all new cloner inserts and hope for the best... getting a new cloner is not in the budget right now...

 

[RetroGrow]

If it worked 100% for your infestation, then you were not dealing with pesticide tolerant aphids(and you applied it correctly).

That is not true for everyone. Obviously imid resistance has developed in many aphid populations because lots of growers here are reporting Bayer Complete to be ineffective in totally eradicating them.

Yeah, you're right. There are different strains of RAs, some more difficult to eradicate. I also think that some people's rooms are being constantly re-infected by RAs coming from outside gardens or lawns. Also some growers are not discovering them early, in which case they are all over the house/property. There is also grower error, where the pesticide is applied to plants that are not drinking or where the medium is saturated to the point where the solution is not being absorbed. If you catch them too late, and the plants are not drinking, you are out of luck. Letting the medium dry to the point where the plants begin to wilt, and then applying the solution is what worked for me. Thirsty plants suck it right up and it's game over. Not saying it works for everyone, only that it worked for me.

 

[RetroGrow]

thanks guys.

other then bleach. what should i use to clean my area with??

i might go grab all new cloner inserts and hope for the best... getting a new cloner is not in the budget right now...

To clean a room, I use Physan, but be careful if you use it, as it is nasty stuff, and you should use goggles and gloves.

 

[RetroGrow]

thanks guys.

other then bleach. what should i use to clean my area with??

i might go grab all new cloner inserts and hope for the best... getting a new cloner is not in the budget right now...

You don't need a cloner at all. Clone in straight coco in cups. 100% success. Just take your cuts, apply cloning gel, and stick it in a cup of coco that has been watered, preferably with rhizotonic.
Clear cups work well as you can see the roots starting. Use another opaque cup in which to put the clear one to avoid algae. Leave cups in low light. You will have roots in 7-10 days.