Calif. pot dispensaries told by feds to shut down

[HempKat]

I was condemning Obama for TARP and his misguided stimulus for the most part. Obama is thick-as-thieves with Goldman Sachs. Obama threatened us with our safety and security if we didn't borrow $750 billion to send around the world and reinforce banks and entities knee deep in crappy financial investments they deviously packaged and eventually fell apart.

How many of you fell for that Wall Street Czar nonsense he's implemented... something like "the investors bill of rights". He's such a tool, such a con artist. Wrong President, wrong time. We needed somebody to come in and shore up spending, not take us to incomprehensible levels that leave us no room for financing anything else.

What do we have to show for all of Obama's deficit spending? My God the staggering amount of American future that a$$wipe pee'd down the drain. You could make a case that he deserves a very harsh penalty for what he's really done.

Wow Obama is even more powerful then I previously imagined, he actually implemented one of the most hated government programs (TARP) before he was even elected as President.

The Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) is a program of the United States government to purchase assets and equity from financial institutions to strengthen its financial sector that was signed into law by U.S. President George W. Bush on October 3, 2008. It was a component of the government's measures in 2008 to address the subprime mortgage crisis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program

 

[HempKat]

Exactly right VirginHarvester! "What do we have to show for all of Obama's deficit spending? My God the staggering amount of American future that a$$wipe pee'd down the drain. You could make a case that he deserves a very harsh penalty for what he's really done." ~~ You have that right there! monkey5

Actually VirginHarvester was exactly wrong with regards to TARP and deficit spending. But hey don't let a silly thing like facts and truth stop you.

 

[HempKat]

I think the Constitution has been trampled on and stretched for years......

But it's become clear to me how it happens..... People sit and bitch about the President instead of laying into the clowns that write and pass these Bills...... And that's why it will continue to happen.....While you're sitting here cursing and blaming the President, some Congressman's probably drawing up another one of these travesties.....

Couldn't agree more and in fact by now we should all have a laudry list of items we should be demanding our elected state representatives start representing us all. Of course legalization of Marijuana is one but some of the others should include.

Mandatory 2 term limits for all Senators and Congressmen.
Abolishment of the Electoral College (outdated and totally useless in this day and age for the purpose it was intended for)
Corporations are not individuals and should not have the rights of individuals.
No politician currently in Office can run for any other office
No corporate dollars can be given to any campaign all campaign funds must come from private individuals and can not exceed more then $100

Those are just a few, there are more but they're more personal, these few though would go a long long way in returning our government to one that represents the will of the people.

 

[HempKat]

And New Yawk has how many Bills coming up for Legalization??
Congressmen and Senators alike...have not come up with one single Bill that will withstand the Voters!! But the President has single handedly set the whole Movement back-- I don't hate Obama...he may be the lesser of the Evils coming up....but I don't applaud him either-- No Hate involved man....just an observation--

And just how much pressure are the constituents of all our Senators and Congressmen bringing to their representatives demanding bills to legalize marijuana?

I mean even the Occupy movement with no clear message is causing politician's to second guess things. Imagine what an equally loud and strong force with a clear message can do. We really need to do something though because our opponants are way ahead of us already with the Tea Party Movement and anyone can see how at least conservatives are jumping to try to satisfy the Tea Party Movement's wishes.

 

[HempKat]

You mean how unemployment has steadily dropped over the past 3 years? And manufacturing has steadily increased during that same time?
Treason I tell you!

I can't speak to manufacturing but if it is steadily increasing it's more out of necessity then anything the government is doing. As for unemployment, don't believe the hype. What is down is the number of folks filing for Unemployment insurance claims. What they don't tell you though is that's largely due to people exhausting their benefits even though the benefits last for well over a year (used to be just 6 months). Many people have just stopped trying. Also you need to recognize when discussing employment that we've yet to replace the millions of jobs lost during the current and previous administrations, let alone keep up with the need for job creation demanded by a growing population. Just the demand alone to keep up with population growth has not been met let alone replacing the jobs lost.

The end result being millions still out of work with skill sets quickly becoming obsolete and millions more graduating from college with huge debt and no or only menial minimum wage jobs to pay said debt off. The future will get very ugly very fast if this trend isn't seriously turned around ASAP.

 

[dagnabit]

I can't speak to manufacturing but if it is steadily increasing it's more out of necessity then anything the government is doing. As for unemployment, don't believe the hype. What is down is the number of folks filing for Unemployment insurance claims. What they don't tell you though is that's largely due to people exhausting their benefits even though the benefits last for well over a year (used to be just 6 months). Many people have just stopped trying. Also you need to recognize when discussing employment that we've yet to replace the millions of jobs lost during the current and previous administrations, let alone keep up with the need for job creation demanded by a growing population. Just the demand alone to keep up with population growth has not been met let alone replacing the jobs lost.

The end result being millions still out of work with skill sets quickly becoming obsolete and millions more graduating from college with huge debt and no or only menial minimum wage jobs to pay said debt off. The future will get very ugly very fast if this trend isn't seriously turned around ASAP.

how does one unfuck a virgin?

 

[HempKat]

how does one unfuck a virgin?

I don't know but since that has nothing to do with the point made by what you quoted I don't see why you ask it.

Or is that what you do? Quote things and then make unrelated riddiculous comments? It would explain alot if that's the case.

 

[Hydrosun]

I can't speak to manufacturing but if it is steadily increasing it's more out of necessity then anything the government is doing. As for unemployment, don't believe the hype. What is down is the number of folks filing for Unemployment insurance claims. What they don't tell you though is that's largely due to people exhausting their benefits even though the benefits last for well over a year (used to be just 6 months). Many people have just stopped trying. Also you need to recognize when discussing employment that we've yet to replace the millions of jobs lost during the current and previous administrations, let alone keep up with the need for job creation demanded by a growing population. Just the demand alone to keep up with population growth has not been met let alone replacing the jobs lost.

The end result being millions still out of work with skill sets quickly becoming obsolete and millions more graduating from college with huge debt and no or only menial minimum wage jobs to pay said debt off. The future will get very ugly very fast if this trend isn't seriously turned around ASAP.

A while back you had a great link to the official US Gov stats, and we talked about total work force, out of work force, and unemployed. I think we agreed that the total number of employed (FTE's full time equivalents) as a percentage of total population of working age.

 

[HempKat]

A while back you had a great link to the official US Gov stats, and we talked about total work force, out of work force, and unemployed. I think we agreed that the total number of employed (FTE's full time equivalents) as a percentage of total population of working age.

I don't recall the link and I'm not sure what you mean by what we agreed on but if you mean that the number of full time jobs to support a growing population has been steadily in decline since just after the housing market collapse, then yeah I agree with that.

 

[Hydrosun]

I just mean you had a cool link to a pdf which showed the stats. We were debating / discussing government employment as a percentage of total employment. And I commented about the unemployment % being a misleading statistic because once benifits run out you are not counted as unemployed. People beyond the check period are counted as "out of work force"

Any way I am just saying that the total number of FTE's as a % of the total possible work force 18 - 65 yr olds has not grown a lick in the last 10 years, especially if we exclude Gov or Mil employment.

 

[HempKat]

I just mean you had a cool link to a pdf which showed the stats. We were debating / discussing government employment as a percentage of total employment. And I commented about the unemployment % being a misleading statistic because once benifits run out you are not counted as unemployed. People beyond the check period are counted as "out of work force"

Any way I am just saying that the total number of FTE's as a % of the total possible work force 18 - 65 yr olds has not grown a lick in the last 10 years, especially if we exclude Gov or Mil employment.

Ah okay I think I vaguely recall the discussion but I still don't recall the link and so I doubt I could find it again, I would think it might be at this site though http://www.bls.gov/

As for what you're saying, I agree with the addition of not only has it not grown but it is still shrinking as the younger members of the population reach working age.

I'm not sure what the figure they use is but it's somewhere around 150,000 jobs per month need to be created just to keep up with population growth and I don't recall many if any months in the past several years having that many new jobs created. So if we don't make up enough jobs to keep up with the population how can we ever hope to replace the millions of jobs lost? (that's just commentary not a question directed at you since we seem to be in agreement on this topic)

 

[dagnabit]

I don't know but since that has nothing to do with the point made by what you quoted I don't see why you ask it.

Or is that what you do? Quote things and then make unrelated riddiculous comments? It would explain alot if that's the case.

my comment was in relation to this

The future will get very ugly very fast if this trend isn't seriously turned around ASAP.

sorry it was beyond your scope to comprehend...

 

[mad librettist]

2) "They felt were operating outside of the (state) law" is a matter for STATE court.

the wise man builds his house on a rock. that was the first line of a song we sang when I was little wee lad in sunday school. Has the medical MJ movement built their house on a rock?


hydrosun, I expect better arguments from you. are you suggesting that the Fed wait for states to get convictions on state charges before they bring fed charges against someone involved in interstate commerce?

that is kinda silly. federal law pre-empts state law. the "deal" with the obama administration is that so long as people operate within state laws they will be left alone. Nothing in there says you will be left alone as long as the state can't or won't get a conviction. That would be stupid and might cause a mutiny at the district attorney level.


what's in question is a fed policy that dictates not what is prosecutable, but rather where DOJ limited resources should go. That's what everyone is going on about -- a mere statement of priorities. What's sad to me is that the cannabis rights movement is focused on loopholes and informal agreements rather than true and binding legalization.

The idea is simple. If the fed determines, by investigating your operation, that you are in violation of state law, they go after you. No one has remotely suggested that US attorneys should wait for state attorneys to bring prosecution before making a move.

this may be news, but the DOJ and the federal court system belong to different branches of government. DOJ can set priorities, but if the law is on the books, they can prosecute those who violate it. Prosecution involves bringing a case before federal courts over federal statutes. State law is not an issue at this point.




A better argument would be to say "hey, none of these half measures add up to legalization, so let's organize to achieve this on a federal level." There are plenty of ways for growers to put some of their tax-free earnings to good political use. If they were truly interested in legalization, they would. However only a fool or idealist grower would ever support legalization with anything but lip service. Why rock such a profitable, low risk boat?

 

[headband 707]

Actually you can grow tobacco and you can distill spirits you just can't profit from it thru distribution without going thru the proper channels to regulate it for the consumer market. I mean you don't see stories of places selling home beer making kits getting raided and I've known several people in my lifetime that grow tobacco rather then have to take what the tobacco companies distribute with all it's additives and the "sin" taxes governments place on it.

First I'm going to ask if you read the link I put up about Obama'a fixation on medical cannabis?
Then I'm going to ask you if you have ever worked with any Gov body and their regulations?
Even trying to make spirits do you know what you need to pass the Gov regulations?
I would say you do not...
lol sorry bra they make this whole proccess as hard as it gets go out and look for yourself lol headband 707

 

[dagnabit]

federal law pre-empts state law.

sad that people have been taught this horseshit in pubic schools and then go out and spread it 'round.

no federallaw does not preempt,supersede nor override state law. in fact those powers not delegated to the feds or prohibited directly are reserved for the states and the people respectively. unless specifically stated in the constitution state law preempts federal in all cases.

 

[Hydrosun]

the wise man builds his house on a rock. that was the first line of a song we sang when I was little wee lad in sunday school. Has the medical MJ movement built their house on a rock?


hydrosun, I expect better arguments from you. are you suggesting that the Fed wait for states to get convictions on state charges before they bring fed charges against someone involved in interstate commerce?

that is kinda silly. federal law pre-empts state law. the "deal" with the obama administration is that so long as people operate within state laws they will be left alone. Nothing in there says you will be left alone as long as the state can't or won't get a conviction. That would be stupid and might cause a mutiny at the district attorney level.


what's in question is a fed policy that dictates not what is prosecutable, but rather where DOJ limited resources should go. That's what everyone is going on about -- a mere statement of priorities. What's sad to me is that the cannabis rights movement is focused on loopholes and informal agreements rather than true and binding legalization.

The idea is simple. If the fed determines, by investigating your operation, that you are in violation of state law, they go after you. No one has remotely suggested that US attorneys should wait for state attorneys to bring prosecution before making a move.

this may be news, but the DOJ and the federal court system belong to different branches of government. DOJ can set priorities, but if the law is on the books, they can prosecute those who violate it. Prosecution involves bringing a case before federal courts over federal statutes. State law is not an issue at this point.




A better argument would be to say "hey, none of these half measures add up to legalization, so let's organize to achieve this on a federal level." There are plenty of ways for growers to put some of their tax-free earnings to good political use. If they were truly interested in legalization, they would. However only a fool or idealist grower would ever support legalization with anything but lip service. Why rock such a profitable, low risk boat?

All cannabis shops are in violation of federal law. All med patients in all states are in violation of federal law.

This thread is replete with examples of operations being raided and NEVER charged with a federal or state crime.

This thread is replete with examples of decade old cannabis shops having their door shut with out EVER being charged with a Federal or State crime.

You say it is sad that some focus on loopholes and I say it is sad that anyone would argue the finer points of prohibitionist unconstitutional laws and rules.

We will never be free if we think we need permission to breath, eat, drink, or medicate. Before trying to change any law or rule I hope we can have a paradigm shift in our thinking. The laws and their enforcement is evil, only sympathizers and collaborators honor unjust laws.

 

[Rouge]

Couldn't agree more and in fact by now we should all have a laudry list of items we should be demanding our elected state representatives start representing us all. Of course legalization of Marijuana is one but some of the others should include.

Mandatory 2 term limits for all Senators and Congressmen.
Abolishment of the Electoral College (outdated and totally useless in this day and age for the purpose it was intended for)
Corporations are not individuals and should not have the rights of individuals.
No politician currently in Office can run for any other office
No corporate dollars can be given to any campaign all campaign funds must come from private individuals and can not exceed more then $100

Those are just a few, there are more but they're more personal, these few though would go a long long way in returning our government to one that represents the will of the people.

Yeah, couldn't agree more HempKat. One of the most insiduous practices in the capitol is the bribery and coercion of our elected reps and appointed bureaucrats by Big Business to skew laws and regulations in their favor. But this is freedom of speech says the Supreme court in Citizen's United. Ie. a corporation is a person.
Wall St/Banks owns us, all of us, thru our elected leaders (no...... more like our elected amoral "pussies"......... excuse me lady IC maggers). God help us all!
I want our democracy back but it's gonna take a couple of constitutional amendments, a so called good dictator, AND God forbid, a revolution.

 

[zymos]

Ah okay I think I vaguely recall the discussion but I still don't recall the link and so I doubt I could find it again, I would think it might be at this site though http://www.bls.gov/

From the bls site you just linked to:

"Job growth was widespread in the private
sector, with large employment gains in professional and business
services, leisure and hospitality, and manufacturing. Government
employment changed little over the month."

"Total nonfarm payroll employment rose by 243,000 in January. Private-
sector employment grew by 257,000, with the largest employment gains
in professional and business services, leisure and hospitality, and
manufacturing. Government employment was little changed over the
month. (See table B-1.)"

and on and on in excruciating detail...

 

[JJScorpio]

To be truthful, neither one supercedes the other. They are two distinctly different bodies......

People think they can't be tried for the same crime twice, when in fact you can be. If tried by the State, whether aquitted or convicted you can still be tried Federally if it violates Federal law.... And I think this is bullshit.....

sad that people have been taught this horseshit in pubic schools and then go out and spread it 'round.

no federallaw does not preempt,supersede nor override state law. in fact those powers not delegated to the feds or prohibited directly are reserved for the states and the people respectively. unless specifically stated in the constitution state law preempts federal in all cases.

 

[huligun]

Glass shops are legal where I live. Actually, you can have an ounce of marijuana here and not be charged with a crime. Any more than that and you can be charged with a felony unless you have a card.

So there is a glass shop in my little town. I loved the guy that owned it. He didn't bs around, we openly talked about the best pipes and whatnot for smoking hash and herb. He didn't insist that we were talking about using these $400 bongs for tobacco.

Well, he did one thing that got him in trouble. He was selling that drug called spice, which I am not sure about the legality. I would never smoke the stuff. I have a few friends on probation and they would smoke spice because it was legal or so so legal. Most of these people would have bad highs, get sick or whatever, but still smoke it because they were jonesing to smoke weed.

The state made spice illegal a year ago. Somehow this fellow got around the law for more than a year through some kind of loopholes, I am not sure. Well they finally closed all his loopholes and closed him down. They took him to jail and took all his inventory, including all the glass.

Now I could not figure out why they took the glass, as it is legal to sell in this state. One of my friends said because the bongs could be used to smoke spice.

Just something to think about. This guy is fighting to get his life back and probably felt all along he was in compliance with the law.