Growroom disaster - everything seeded from hermie!

[Yes4Prop215]

I was given two clones of a polyhybrid cross called "new wave" or triple threat, it basically consists of Purple Erkle, Og Kush, and Sour D...its very nice smoke, floral, hard hitting high.

I veg'd these two clones out, took more clones from them both, and flowered out both of the originals. They did NOT hermy or have any indication of male flowers.


So i decide to keep a mother and flower out a bunch of second round cuts. These cuts go to 3 seperate grow areas, 2 in my grow, and another at a friends grow who has lots of experiance and never gets hermies. The plants are in the exact same tray as the previous round that did not hermy!

The second wave of "new wave" forms huge male flowers at 3 weeks and has fully polinated everything in ALL THREE ROOMS!

Since i stand to lose thousands of dollars due to this, i figured i would do some research and try to figure out why a CLONE ONLY STRAIN, that has never hermied before, would blow pollen in 3 seperate grow rooms that have never had hermy issues before!!


At first i thought light leak, but i dont have any! and my friend doesnt either.

Second hypothesis is that the mother became unstable somehow? i know she went dry for a day once and was wilted, would this cause the resulting clones to be unstable?


Any ideas? Im more pissed because now i wont have any OG, Blueberry, or Sour D to bring to the 420 cup. Im spraying down my 4th tray, cookies which are only 1 week into flower with reverse and tons of water in hopes it will kill any pollen still lingering. if the cookies get seeded too i am in for a very dissapointing 420...

 

[Yes4Prop215]

unbelievable how bad my luck is with hermies seeding my entire crop. this is the 4th time it has happened since i started growing...the first times were my fault because i was running bagseed strains...

but this fucking time!! WHEN YOU GROW OUT A STRAIN AND GET NO HERMIES YOU PRETTY MUCH EXPECT THAT IT WONT HAPPEN AGAIN!!! and just the whole fucked situation behind it...i wasnt even supposed to put these fucking plants inthe grow room, i just happened to have extras and decided to throw 2 plants into the corner of a tray...big fucking mistake because 1. the tray was already full and didnt need any other plants 2. i should have flowered these plants in my test cab and minimized damage..


the only thing i can think of, is that the mother got stressed out from lack of water and it went into hermie mode.. and every resulting clone had hermie genetics..

hermies is basically the result of environmental stresses that tell the plant she might die soon, so she has to self pollinate herself to continue on.....its a fuckall trait embedded in cannabis DNA that is impossible to get rid off...


its just extremely maddening because my room is dialed in nicely and all the other strains, even finicky ass OG kush and Blueberry have ZERO pods....but this fucking XXX cross went full out male pollen dump everywhere..

today will be a long day of spraying reverse and water into every crevice and part of the room and hoping for the best...

all is not lost some of the top colas remained untouched...so i will probably still harvest around 30-40 percent of my trays....but alot of nugget going into the trash this round.

 

[joe fresh]

my idea would be that the 3 mother plants used in the cross(og kush, sour d, purple urkle) were all female to start with, and were reversed to breed with, leaving unstable sensitive genetics, meaning they could herm with the slightest stress, or not at all, but will be completely random

this is the fear alot of ppl have with buying feminized seeds, but if the breeder works his stuff good and tests then there should be little to no herm traits left in the final product.

but when you use 3 reversed female clone only strains that imo adds a much larger % rate of what may come out of the offspring, making the final cross an unstable lineage in general.

this would mean that you could make clones and might only get herms every 3-4 generations, might not get em at all, kinda like flipping a coin.

with a lot more work in stablizing the cross then this trait could get worked out but at this point it would seem that it is just too unstable to grow....

i should also mention that there are 2 kinds of hermies, genetic, and stress induced...although al plants carry the "herm" trait, what actually cause it is easier to define by what kind of mae flowers is on the plant and where they apear

genetic herms will show both male and female preflowers

stress induced herms will show only female preflowers(except maybe near the top of the main colas) with nanners in the budsites...



EDIT:--- plz dont send in beans to server fund, lol

 

[Yes4Prop215]

yea that project is all on hold until everything gets washed down and soaked to kill any lingering pollen...the new wave mother and all clones were culled today as well.....pretty sad because she produced very unique sour grapey smoke..

 

[Str8Dank]

sucks man sorry to hear about this. i had this happen a few runs ago its heartbreaking. i litterally screamed like spartacus when i found the first one. i was so dissapointed i actually let the whole crop die without trimming it first they died right in the pot.

anyways i think joe was on to something because regardless of how it's reversed some plants just don't do well with reversals and you had 3 x the chances of one not playing nice with the stress assoicated with all tek's of reversal. i know chemD is like that but never heard of that issue with any of the 3 but the 3 combined may have caused it and the slightest stress may have made her show her balls.

 

[igrowkushbitch]

Sorry to hear about the hermys. I know exactly how you feel. I have lost a couple harvests cause of them. My heart stops and my stomach churns when I see seeds. I pretty much only run 4 strains now and will not take any more in cause of the risk.

 

[Leroy Brown]

Damn, I know that feel bro', the last time I freaked out & vowed to give up & it turned out to be the strain I was running had huge ovules, month later trimmed up no nanners or seeds just the little pin head ovules but that would have been my 3rd time. 2nd was this fall, one of my best outdoor grows ever I completely missed a male

 

[Grass Lands]

sorry to hear your woes...

 

[supermanlives]

sucks huh. lost 1200 watts worth. well not lost i made hash.i am glad my grows are seperated

 

[cyat]

happend to me got my best strains off those crosses tho, and people still liked it. took out every seed I could find.

I think nutes can cause hermies too, had some hermie before then they were over it next time and stayed girls

still ruff stuff tho

 

[Yes4Prop215]

is it possible for a mother plant to produce regular, stable clones that do NOT hermy.....and then suddenly produce hermy prone cuts after being stressed?


the only thing i can think of is that my New Wave mom went limp from underwatering once.....maybe the plants DNA suddenly made it hermy prone?

if thats the case it would suck because other mothers might be prone to the same thing..

 

[krunchbubble]

is it possible for a mother plant to produce regular, stable clones that do NOT hermy.....and then suddenly produce hermy prone cuts after being stressed?


the only thing i can think of is that my New Wave mom went limp from underwatering once.....maybe the plants DNA suddenly made it hermy prone?

if thats the case it would suck because other mothers might be prone to the same thing..

yes, it can happen....

i had a Kushberry strain that ran bonkers for a couple years...

then out of the blue, it went to shit, nothing but nanners and super small seeds...

happened to another strain a few years ago, but dont remember what strain.....

the clones that come off the mother WILL BE NO GOOD.....

 

[Mia]

is it possible for a mother plant to produce regular, stable clones that do NOT hermy.....and then suddenly produce hermy prone cuts after being stressed?


the only thing i can think of is that my New Wave mom went limp from underwatering once.....maybe the plants DNA suddenly made it hermy prone?

if thats the case it would suck because other mothers might be prone to the same thing..

I find it hard to believe but not out of the realm of possibility that your source of issues was a limp mama. I've abused plants far worse in my time, nursed them back and they were good to go.

Plus if that is the case, and the genetics are that weak, is it really worth dealing with?

I don't have any better answers than anyone else, sorry to hear of your troubles bro, i know that new wave is supposed to be tight or whatever but I'd toss that shit if it was me.

Best of luck!

 

[Yes4Prop215]

yup new wave has been tossed....lovely herb but i have zero time for hermies...good by!

 

[sprinkl]

the only thing i can think of, is that the mother got stressed out from lack of water and it went into hermie mode.. and every resulting clone had hermie genetics..

hermies is basically the result of environmental stresses that tell the plant she might die soon, so she has to self pollinate herself to continue on.....its a fuckall trait embedded in cannabis DNA that is impossible to get rid off...

I think the genetics don't change when it goes hermy, the plant had feminized genetics somewhere in the background, stress hormones were released because the plant didn't get what it needed, those hormones were also in the cuttings you then took and caused balls when grown out.
Too much stress and the progeny of stressed-out feminized, reversed, stress sensitive parents... I know I'd go through a crisis myself

 

[CanniDo Cowboy]

Hey Y-man...Wow...Your thread brings back bad memories for me. Similar circumstances. Years back, during my indoor days, my op was cruising along fine. Had run different strains for almost 2 years with no hermie problems. All of a sudden, my flower runs began producing seeds. Every plant!

At first I thought it was just a freak thing because it began with only 1 or 2 plants out of a 24 plant run. I stopped running the strain of the first few seeders, switched over to different strains but the seeding just got worse and after apprx 3 more runs, everything was seeding. Every run. I always kept 2 different and unrelated strain runs in the flower room, one apprx 2weeks ahead of the other.

I spent over 3 months trying to find the reason but unfortunately never came up with the answer. I relocated before I could track down the cause, went exclusively outdoor and forgot about the problem. But at the time, I remember the major frustration. The plants would all flower into awesome buds but if left beyond cloudy trichomes, seed pods would begin forming. After the problem began,i remember watching the developing buds of each new run carefully everyday, and each run I would think the crisis was over then bam! The whole crop would begin seeding again.

I do recall my problem started shortly after a feminized Blueberry seed (from a seed bank), began showing signs of bein a hermie, during the start of a flower run. But I caught the plant right at it's beginning of morph. The other plants in the run where just beginning to show pistols and the hermie hadnt even begun developing pollen pods. Hell, I removed it so early, the biggest reason I removed the plant was "it just didnt look quite right..." i never thought anything about it, just removed the hermie and continued the run. I got 2 seeders at the end of that run and the seed rodeo was on.

As I said, apprx 3 runs after the Blueberry hermie, every plant, even my coveted GDP I had been growing for 2 years without problems, began seeding. I stopped all the flower runs and washed the entire room down, thinkin somehow the problem was related to that damn Blueberry. After a complete flower room douche, I started 2 new runs of Mendo Purp and some Silver Haze clones (kept in a separate room) and I'll be damed if they didnt seed also. Feeling I had eliminated the Blueberry as being the culprit, I began looking at my nutrient/ferts program thinkin perhaps something I was applying was the cause, and in the meantime, I was spending countless hours googling -"female marijuana plants producing seeds without male...". I cut down on nutrient and fert strengths, ran several plants without much of anything and completely switched diets of others trying to find what nute or fert might be the cause. Same results! Then, out of sheer desperation, I started looking at possible stress. None of my runs had ever experienced lack of water stress so I began looking at my temps. Too hot? My average temp in the flower room was mid to high 80's so I dropped one run into the 70's and still the problem persisted. I searched a bazillion grow forums, asked grow-friends and even talked to folks in the grow stores if they had experienced such a thing...No. No. And no. To this day dude, I still have no idea WTF the problem was but i do know, I researched and experimented for over 3 months obsessively mornin ,noon and nite trying to figure it out but as I said, it kicked my ass...Hopefully you can get to the bottom of what I didnt... Good luck! CC

 

[Yes4Prop215]

wow man that is scary as fuck!

i think i might have found the culprit...

i talked to the guy who gave me my new wave cuts...he mentioned they might have been stressed and taken off a flowering plant.

still doesnt make sense why one round would produce sensi and the next would produce full out nanners..

then i started thinking it was related to 24/0 hour light cycle....if you veg on 24 hours it can cause hermies. i wasnt vegging 24 hours but i found a small light leak in my main mother tent that housed my TBL, LA con, LVPK, and New Wave......the TBL and others came out hermie free but the new wave must have been stressed by that light leak..

i wonder if a plant is stressed in veg, it will ALWAYS be hermie? or if reverted to a good solid 18/6 with zero light leaks she will rebound and loose the traits?

either way....i culled my TBL and LA con mothers....and im gonna cull the rest in that tent today. all because of a fucking computer charger that left a litle blue light running. luckily i left my GSC mothers in a flood tray veg that was set up somewhere else....but im narrowing it down to a veg room light leak...

 

[humblefish]

I never have trouble from "light leaks" in my veg room. In fact, I make no attempt to seal off the veg chamber from my little corner of cloning fluorescents, which run 24/7, and have never had hermaphrodites from clones...after literally years and 30+ different clones. When I bought my veg hut, the knowledgeable lady at the grow store told me not to worry about sealing it off from the inside and I haven't looked back since.

My vote is that the new wave's problems are due to it's triple mix of reversed female parents. The juvenile pollen chucking that passes as breeding in CA is pathetic. Before ya make ur own "strain," read a fucking book, for christ's sake!!!!!!!!

 

[humblefish]

.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

thats good to know humble fish.....thats basically what happened.


what about plants on 24 hour veg...im reading that mothers under 24 hours of light are prone to hermie..

i got about 50 plants that have been in 24 hour veg that i will be flowering shortly...i guess that will really tell me whats the deal. if they hermie then i know my culprit...


the new wave was obviously stressed out by that....hoping that it is contained to them.

the good news is that i have an LVPK that i mislabeled and threw into the same roomand it has ZERO nanners....so somehow the LVPK wasnt afffected by the light leak even though she was directly next to newwave in the jeopardized mother tent..