Humidity... where does it go?

[Snook]

With a small case of PTSD, I sometimes do not have the comprehension of some logical tasks. For example, timers.. I have a hell of a time with them.. change the 'ON' hours for lights gives me fits changing all (4) timers to match... after all these years of 12/12 or 18/6 (I have no problem with 24/7.HA!). Well humidity has me stumped right now. I do it in a small tent (4'+/X/4'+/6'+).. it is in a room (10'x12'x8'). I can not put the humidifier or the de-humidifier in there. So I can either humidify/dehumidify the entire room by having the humidifier away from the tents intakes and the tent will catch up, eventually or put the humidifier close to the tents intakes and humidity will rise much faster (humidifier will run less). The tent exhausts into the attic.
I am thinking mold becasue I put about 5 gallons into the air about every 3-4 days. Typically our weather is hot and humid (90+/75%+) but now it is running 35%-40% RH.. Where is all that water going? Into the attic but how much of it? I like 55%-65% in the tent at 75-77F.. Which way? or another better way..

 

[socialist]

The humidity is being absorbed by everything around it including the air. Your attic has vents that are meant to dispel air along with the humidity.

 

[Snook]

The humidity is being absorbed by everything around it including the air. Your attic has vents that are meant to dispel air along with the humidity.

That sounds like I'm golden. How is it that one hers so much about mold in the attic from exhaust?

 

[SeaMaiden]

That sounds like I'm golden. How is it that one hers so much about mold in the attic from exhaust?

I believe that might be because attics are typically an area where air masses of different temperatures meet, and often that can lead to condensation, which could lead to mold.

 

[socialist]

Just get one of those cheap temp/humidity sensors from wal-mart. If the humidity gets high then you know you have a problem. Not all roofs are vented properly. In any case you could pick up a dehumidifier and put it outside the tent in the attic itself and then your golden!

 

[Snook]

Just get one of those cheap temp/humidity sensors from wal-mart. If the humidity gets high then you know you have a problem. Not all roofs are vented properly. In any case you could pick up a dehumidifier and put it outside the tent in the attic itself and then your golden!

Have the sensors but I also have to contend with humidity in the tent as well as the attic. Mold in the the tent would be bad too. Let me say that I only worry about this in the winter. Summer time brings enough humidity that high humidity in the attic is normal. Run the de-humidifier in the attic.. humm.

Thanks for the ideas.

 

[socialist]

If you have the vent properly ventilated I dont think you'll have any humidity problems.

 

[ProGroWannabe]

A buddy of mine vented into the attic in a remote spot once and filled the entire attic with black mold. I told him of an easy fix, but he ignored it.

I would NOT waste electricity on a dehuey in an attic. My suggestion is this:

Go to your store of choice and buy black plastic corrugated pipe called drain tile. It has perforations in it to allow for the slow leaching of liquids. These same perforations will allow for the necessary TEMPERATURE EQUALIZATION that your looking for so that your not creating a ton of condensation in the attic.

From your standard ductwork that you already have running from the tent, just duct tape the new drain tile to it. You might have to tape off several of those first holes where the two pieces meet, so that your not exhausting everything out within the first few feet, but that should make you golden.

Once you get it all hooked up, just check on it every hour or two for the first couple of days if possible to make sure your not condensating into your insulation. If that occurs, either tape up more of the holes nearest the junction, or insulate the ductwork a bit.

This will stop the condensation from creating mold in your attic. But you need to be certain that your not creating it on the outside of the drain tile as well. Once you know that your good on both parts, you'll never have to sweat it again. Problem solved.

 

[Snook]

A buddy of mine vented into the attic in a remote spot once and filled the entire attic with black mold. I told him of an easy fix, but he ignored it.

I would NOT waste electricity on a dehuey in an attic. My suggestion is this:

Go to your store of choice and buy black plastic corrugated pipe called drain tile. It has perforations in it to allow for the slow leaching of liquids. These same perforations will allow for the necessary TEMPERATURE EQUALIZATION that your looking for so that your not creating a ton of condensation in the attic.

From your standard ductwork that you already have running from the tent, just duct tape the new drain tile to it. You might have to tape off several of those first holes where the two pieces meet, so that your not exhausting everything out within the first few feet, but that should make you golden.

Once you get it all hooked up, just check on it every hour or two for the first couple of days if possible to make sure your not condensating into your insulation. If that occurs, either tape up more of the holes nearest the junction, or insulate the ductwork a bit.

This will stop the condensation from creating mold in your attic. But you need to be certain that your not creating it on the outside of the drain tile as well. Once you know that your good on both parts, you'll never have to sweat it again. Problem solved.

OK, good, thank you, I may even use this 'tile' to route humidifier into the tent so condensate drips into collection tub. But you use the tile in the room from the tent to the solid 90 that takes exhaust into the attic OR this tile goes into the attic to disburse the exhausted air? Not sure what you say about insulation: to make sure your not condensating into your insulation.

 

[delta9nxs]

hey, snook! i don't know much about tents but i think you are better off running a dehuey in the room around the tent and vent the tent back into the room.

i don't like my flowering rh to be above about 60% because of mold. what are you getting in the tent?

 

[SeaMaiden]

Just get one of those cheap temp/humidity sensors from wal-mart. If the humidity gets high then you know you have a problem. Not all roofs are vented properly. In any case you could pick up a dehumidifier and put it outside the tent in the attic itself and then your golden!

Yep. We live in a newer home, well under 10yo, and we just had a solar array installed this summer. As part of that package this newer home, built according to all the current California, EPA and whatever other applicable building codes.

Along with the insulation envelope being completely insufficient in this home finished in fall 2005, we were informed by multiple contractors/specialists that the roof is insufficiently ventilated. We need to add, I think they're called eyebrows or something like that (I can't remember what they're called exactly). So here we have a home built post-2000, supposed to meet all these requirements and the attic space was causing huge problems in terms of heating and cooling and keeping that envelope. And keeping that envelope is what prevents the mold problems that's usually associated with older homes.

And you wouldn't believe how crooked the walls are, one area in our living room where the wall meets the ceiling has a peak in it! Every major system (HVAC, septic, well, electrical) has taken a shit on us and those features that haven't been replaced or repaired by us continue to give us problems.

On a 6yo home.


No one takes any pride in their craftsmanship any more, ya know?

<waves @ PGW>

 

[Snook]

hey, snook! i don't know much about tents but i think you are better off running a dehuey in the room around the tent and vent the tent back into the room.

i don't like my flowering rh to be above about 60% because of mold. what are you getting in the tent?

Hi D9.. humidifier is in the 'room' along with the humidifier, not in the tent (tent too small for all that stuff. I'm running 60%+ day, 70% night (3rd week of bloom right now). I just ordered a second eos1 humidity controller for 'inside'. There will be one in there telling the dehuey what to do (55%) and one in there telling the humidifier what to do (60%) or something like that. With your suggestion, wouldnt running the exhaust air back into the room deplete co2 and raise temps?

 

[delta9nxs]

"With your suggestion, wouldnt running the exhaust air back into the room deplete co2 and raise temps?"

i'm not the best person to talk to about tents, but wouldn't your whole house hvac system keep the temps right? right now, i'm heating my entire house with 6 1k bulbs at night. i put the thermostat on neutral but run the fan full time. in the daytime when the room shuts down i turn the heat on.

last year i was exhausting the air into the attic so the house heater had to run all the time. i just got a bill that was almost 2000 kw less than the same month last year.

if you are talking about ambient co2 depletion i wouldn't worry about it. your house probably leaks some air in and out and with doors opening and closing it should stay up to normal ambient levels

if you are supplementing co2 it would be in the tent only and timed.

 

[mofeta]

Fucking Humidity, How Does It Work?



Sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

[Snook]

"With your suggestion, wouldnt running the exhaust air back into the room deplete co2 and raise temps?"

i'm not the best person to talk to about tents, but wouldn't your whole house hvac system keep the temps right? right now, i'm heating my entire house with 6 1k bulbs at night. i put the thermostat on neutral but run the fan full time. in the daytime when the room shuts down i turn the heat on.

last year i was exhausting the air into the attic so the house heater had to run all the time. i just got a bill that was almost 2000 kw less than the same month last year.

if you are talking about ambient co2 depletion i wouldn't worry about it. your house probably leaks some air in and out and with doors opening and closing it should stay up to normal ambient levels

if you are supplementing co2 it would be in the tent only and timed.

No co2 running but here in Florida.. 'we' get cold at about 65F. At night.. heat is on in the house, for she and me, so are lights but with night time temps 65F and below, household hvac is turned off to that room because heat is on in the rest of the house and air is drawn from outside.. works well, no smell in the house. Humidity goes down and humidifier runs alot.. 5 gallons every 1 or 2 days.. I'm concerned about where that much water is going and what it is doing when it gets there/wherever. BTW, the tent is starting to look like a jungle and shortly I'll be concerned about too much ambient humidity. Ying and Yang.

 

[Snook]

Fucking Humidity, How Does It Work?



Sorry, I couldn't resist.

I dono?

 

[ProGroWannabe]

............ But you use the tile in the room from the tent to the solid 90 that takes exhaust into the attic OR this tile goes into the attic to disburse the exhausted air? Not sure what you say about insulation: to make sure your not condensating into your insulation.

You use the tile in the attic only. What the tile is doing for you, is allowing a slower temperature gradient from the hot grow room air, to the cold attic air surrounding it. The insulation that I'm speaking of is the insulation that is now in your attic. If you cool that grow tent air too fast, the outside of the pipe (drain tile, as they call it) will form beads of moisture due to the temperature differential being too drastic.

This same property of physics is why water condensates on single plane windows in the winter. It's warm inside the house, but cold outside. So as air that has moisture in it begins to condense because of the temperature change, the moisture in it falls out of suspension and shows as water droplets on the windows. You don't want that moisture soaking your insulation because when fiberglass insulation becomes soaked, it ceases to insulate.

The point is......if you run the drain tile across the attic correctly, you can adjust it's ventilating capability to allow a slow temperature fall inside the tile and therefore the moisture droplets will stay in suspension as the air cools. You get the cooling benefit without the moisure build-up and mold that will come shortly thereafter.

<waves back at Seamaiden> What's up my hippie friend?

 

[Snook]

You use the tile in the attic only. What the tile is doing for you, is allowing a slower temperature gradient from the hot grow room air, to the cold attic air surrounding it. The insulation that I'm speaking of is the insulation that is now in your attic. If you cool that grow tent air too fast, the outside of the pipe (drain tile, as they call it) will form beads of moisture due to the temperature differential being too drastic.

This same property of physics is why water condensates on single plane windows in the winter. It's warm inside the house, but cold outside. So as air that has moisture in it begins to condense because of the temperature change, the moisture in it falls out of suspension and shows as water droplets on the windows. You don't want that moisture soaking your insulation because when fiberglass insulation becomes soaked, it ceases to insulate.

The point is......if you run the drain tile across the attic correctly, you can adjust it's ventilating capability to allow a slow temperature fall inside the tile and therefore the moisture droplets will stay in suspension as the air cools. You get the cooling benefit without the moisure build-up and mold that will come shortly thereafter.

<waves back at Seamaiden> What's up my hippie friend?

So the tile is slowly condensing, cooling and redistributing moisture, in the attic, so that it doesnt condense on/in the insulation, because the air in the attic is cooler and drier than the air I'm exhausting into the attic...

hmmm... believe me, I'm no mathematician and appreciate your explanation but how much volume of hot and humid air (in this case, exhaust into attic = 71-73F/55%-65% RH (max) and ambient attic = 40F-65F/ RH%= ambient (around 45%-75% daily in the winter)) is going to equal mold??< I'm very medicated at this point and hope you can follow that lot. Simply stated, ... I tried twice but nothing seems simple once I start typing.

 

[socialist]

Fucking Humidity, How Does It Work?



Sorry, I couldn't resist.

He was making fun of ICP.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

I'm not sure about this idea of slowly cooling vented air to avoid condensation. If it contains enough water vapor, that vapor will condense at a certain temperature whether it gets there rapidly or not.

The moisture problem in your attic is a combination of ventilation, temperature, the amount of water introduced, and the humidity of your climate. In a dry desert climate, condensation inside attics is simply not an issue. Florida on the other hand is really humid so you are starting out at a disadvantage. Relative Humidity is just what it says, it's relative, relative to air temperature. 100 F degree air can hold a lot more water vapor than 50 F degree air. 50 F degree air, holding 50% of its vapor capacity is at a relative humidity of 50%. 100 F degree air at 50% RH is also holding 50% of its water vapor capacity, but it's a lot more water than it could hold at 50 F degrees.

So be aware that if your cold outside winter air is at 65-75% RH, when you bring it inside and heat it up the actual water vapor content won't change but the measured relative humidity will drop because the warmed air's water holding capacity has increased. Same works vice versa, take hot air at 50% RH and cool it down, the RH will increase. Once RH reaches 100% you've reached the dew point and condensation will occur.