100amp subpanel install questions

[Ultra Current]

If you are taking wild-ass guesses at everything and adding it up, you'll never be able to afford to do the installation.

Regarding running 120 volt ballasts on a 100 amp service, you are incorrect. As Iron Lion already pointed pointed out, the panel would be fed with a 100 amp double-pole breaker. This means that you actually would have (2) 100 amp 120 volt circuits in the sub. You would just need to insure that the load was balanced, and it would be fine.



Any ballast that has 20% ballast losses has something wrong with it. I've worked on literally 100's of HID lights, and I don't recall ever seeing one with more than about half of that.

If a 10 light grower can't pay the extra $100 charge then that's very funny. Listen to what you are saying. You say that he can get there with 120 Volts by using 2 x 100 amp breakers. That's 200 amps and the user is trying to only run 100 amps. And every ballast uses more than 1000 watts so don't try to mislead people with your slick word play.

 

[Ultra Current]

Hmm... You've apparently been busy editing. Where on earth did you find this tidbit? Reputable link?

You've been doing this for 30 years and don't know this? I guess you don't know what your doing. Read your books that you had when you were an apprentice or maybe your a 30 year apprentice.

 

[rives]

If a 10 light grower can't pay the extra $100 charge then that's very funny. Listen to what you are saying. You say that he can get there with 120 Volts by using 2 x 100 amp breakers. That's 200 amps and the user is trying to only run 100 amps. And every ballast uses more than 1000 watts so don't try to mislead people with your slick word play.

It is considered to be 100 amps. It would use a single 100 amp double-pole breaker, which would feed a 100 amp sub-panel with 2 hot busses in it, fed with #2 wire at 240 volts which is good for slightly more than 100 amps. Get it?

You've been doing this for 30 years and don't know this? I guess you don't know what your doing. Read your books that you had when you were an apprentice or maybe your a 30 year apprentice.

And you are a poseur who obviously lacks the the knowledge to go along with your little toys. If this were the case, the breakers would have to have some indicator for end-of-life, and we would all still be using fuses.

 

[BennyBlanco]

fuck really ...breaker trips three times you run the risk of fire?

 

[Hammerhead]

I asked my Neighbor he is a licensed electrician here in Cali and he said thats completely false... Thats like saying if you cross the street you might get hit by a car..

 

[BennyBlanco]

hey my one buddy hooks me up with all this grow equipment he drops off somthing new everyday it seems like but he does not hook it up an i dont know how so i figured i ask here for some help. today he droped off a Tork DG180 digital timer an a K-Kontrol tempture controler .... so could someon show me how to hook this timer up maybe show me a wiring diagram / schematics for it...

 

[Ultra Current]

Tripping your circuit breaker causes damage to your breakers. Most electricians do not know this. If you ask a real electrician that knows what he is doing, he will know. I found out when my building inspector came by and told me after a bad job from an electrician. The inspector specifically told me a circuit breaker must be replaced after 3 trips. Here's a little read:

All circuit breakers have the same basic internal and external construction. They all must meet certain construction criteria before they can be sold in the U.S. market place.
The Basic Construction of a Circuit Breaker
All circuit breakers are enclosed in a very high impact, yet brittle plastic. This plastic is made to withstand high temperatures and insulate high voltages in the 50,000 volt range and higher. The high voltage range is in case your circuit breaker box may take a direct lightening hit. Although the plastic can withstand a high impact hit, it is made to break on the corners so the internal workings does not sustain damage. The internal circuit breaker workings are that of a spring operation, that opens when a piece of conductive metal becomes too hot from over current and weakens to release a trip spring. This trip spring opens a switch. The switch cannot be reset until the conductive metal cools down.
Damage by Over Current
Circuit breakers are manufactured to open whenever an over current situation occurs. Whether it is from a direct, short to ground or a device failure of high amperage. Repetitive over current or constant tripping can severely weaken the conductive metal and finally break the small metal piece. The spring can also weaken and loose its capability to be reset. In this case, the entire breaker must be replaced.
Damage by Constant Use
Circuit breakers should never be used as the on/off switch in any circuit. Constant on/off use will cause the reset spring to become weak and may create a fault that is not recognizable by a tripped switch. Or worse yet, it may not allow the circuit breaker to trip at all and cause a complete and literal melt down of the wiring circuit.
Damage by Impact
Accidentally dropping a circuit breaker on a hard surface such as metal or concrete will pretty much destroy the internal device. Although it may appear to operate fine, there is a great possibility that the spring or conductive metal is damaged. You can never open up a circuit breaker and repair it; it is not worth the risk at any cost.

 

[rives]

hey my one buddy hooks me up with all this grow equipment he drops off somthing new everyday it seems like but he does not hook it up an i dont know how so i figured i ask here for some help. today he droped off a Tork DG180 digital timer an a K-Kontrol tempture controler .... so could someon show me how to hook this timer up maybe show me a wiring diagram / schematics for it...

Lower left corner of the PDF - holler if you need more help.

http://www.goodmart.com/pdfs/tork/dg100.pdf

Repetitive over current or constant tripping can severely weaken the conductive metal and finally break the small metal piece. The spring can also weaken and loose its capability to be reset. In this case, the entire breaker must be replaced.
Damage by Constant Use
Circuit breakers should never be used as the on/off switch in any circuit. Constant on/off use will cause the reset spring to become weak and may create a fault that is not recognizable by a tripped switch. Or worse yet, it may not allow the circuit breaker to trip at all and cause a complete and literal melt down of the wiring circuit.

Absolutely agree. I just take exception to construing 3 trips as being "constant tripping".

 

[Hammerhead]

I also agree. I do not agree with 3 as being constant tripping.

 

[Ultra Current]

Lower left corner of the PDF - holler if you need more help.

http://www.goodmart.com/pdfs/tork/dg100.pdf




Absolutely agree. I just take exception to construing 3 trips as being "constant tripping".

That read above is not from the code books. I would advise you to talk with your inspector about the 3 trip rule. This came Into effect in my state because licensed electricians were tripping circuits themselves by being lazy and purposely tripping circuits by touching opposite wires and creating a spark. In the state that I'm in, code says breaker must be replaced after 3 trips. Maybe your state is different.

 

[Hammerhead]

How would anyone know how many trips are on a breaker??? that's not part of any disclosure I know of when properties change hands.. You would need to waste at least 1 trip to test that the breaker works. That sounds like a sales pitch to me..

 

[rives]

While breakers should never be used in place of a switch, as noted above, they are meant to stand up to repeated, but not continual, tripping. The whole reason that we went to breakers is for that very reason - fuses are far superior in virtually every respect except for that one. Fuses can be more closely sized to protect the loads, and their blow characteristics (totally unrelated to ampacity) can be matched to the device - slow blow fuses for high-inertia motor starting on one end to semi-conductor fuses that are appropriate for protecting devices that will fry in a half-wave on the other end of the spectrum. However, they are a pain in the ass to replace and there is no assurance that someone will put the correct fuse back.

I guarantee you that the "3-trip rule" is not part of the NEC, and while there are localized amendments to the NEC, these codes would surely be on line. I would be very interested in seeing this one.

 

[BennyBlanco]

well here she,is this was a big project for me and its,still not finished but its all hooked up an working
much respect to you electricians out there this took me a couple weeks of,planning an working things out an reading alot here an books ....but it feels like i know so much more now about this trade i was a total noob before this project it seems like...i see there are 8 open spaces on this panel so how many amps could i use from this subpanel? could i put say 8 20 amp breakers in there this will 160amps an its only wired to a 100amp breaker at the main?

 

[Ultra Current]

well here she,is this was a big project for me and its,still not finished but its all hooked up an working
much respect to you electricians out there this took me a couple weeks of,planning an working things out an reading alot here an books ....but it feels like i know so much more now about this trade i was a total noob before this project it seems like...i see there are 8 open spaces on this panel so how many amps could i use from this subpanel? could i put say 8 20 amp breakers in there this will 160amps an its only wired to a 100amp breaker at the main?

If you have 100 amps on that panel, you can only use 80 amps safely at one time. You can put in as many 20 amp breakers that you want but on each one of those breakers you can only pull 16 amps safely on each one but you cant use more than 80 amps. Just get yourself ballast that run at 240 volts and put in 240 volt breakers and you're good.

 

[BennyBlanco]

ahh makes sense now... cause i was thinking the size breakers come in .....adding 8 10 amp breakers would only be 80 amps which i thought would be under and if,i added 8 20 it would be way over

 

[rives]

well here she,is this was a big project for me and its,still not finished but its all hooked up an working
much respect to you electricians out there this took me a couple weeks of,planning an working things out an reading alot here an books ....but it feels like i know so much more now about this trade i was a total noob before this project it seems like...i see there are 8 open spaces on this panel so how many amps could i use from this subpanel? could i put say 8 20 amp breakers in there this will 160amps an its only wired to a 100amp breaker at the main?[/IMG]

Benny, the number of breakers in the panel is irrelevant. Most circuits are either lightly loaded or have intermittent loads, so you don't get an accurate picture by just looking at the number and size of the breakers that are plugged in. The 80 amps that UC is referring to is based on continuous loads which the NEC defines as being 3 hours or more in duration.

 

[Ultra Current]

ahh makes sense now... cause i was thinking the size breakers come in .....adding 8 10 amp breakers would only be 80 amps which i thought would be under and if,i added 8 20 it would be way over

Instead of putting in all those breakers, put in a 80 amp 240 volt breaker and run your 10 lights. Then you can put in a 20 amp breaker in the same panel for your equipment as long as you don't exceed 80 amps total. Look at all of your equipment and make sure it doesn't exceed 80 amps. On the 20 amp breaker you can only use 16 amps.

 

[rives]

Instead of putting in all those breakers, put in a 80 amp 240 volt breaker and run your 10 lights.

Are you saying to run the lights directly off of this breaker? That won't work unless he is feeding some kind of a distribution panel with fusing for each ballast, bringing the maximum current down to whatever amperage level they are designed to accept (withstand).

 

[Ultra Current]

Are you saying to run the lights directly off of this breaker? That won't work unless he is feeding some kind of a distribution panel with fusing for each ballast, bringing the maximum current down to whatever amperage level they are designed to accept (withstand).

Sorry I should have been more clear. Use the appropriate timer relay for 10 lights. Here's one below for 8 lights:
http://www.hydroponics.net/i/135889

 

[Hammerhead]

I wont use those.. The website I posted are very good..and are wired correctly.