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Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???
- Thread starter spleebale
- Start date
Are you growing indoors?.... then YES!
damn y'all help a brother out. 
can you explain what the white stuff on the roots looks like? My roots are covered. Literally every .5 millimeters has a little white speck of a white substance. On every freaking root in some pots. It is some nasty shit.
The roots under 30x mag look like they are brown-translucent on the inside and then are splattered on the outside with a white moldy looking substance.
There seems to be so much more of this white shit relative to the one or a few aphids i find in the pot. I am sure I had more before i started fighting them, but damn can they cause all that white stuff, or is it mold?
Can't take pics that close but would love to hear descriptions of what your roots looked like magnified, or up close
can you explain what the white stuff on the roots looks like? My roots are covered. Literally every .5 millimeters has a little white speck of a white substance. On every freaking root in some pots. It is some nasty shit.
The roots under 30x mag look like they are brown-translucent on the inside and then are splattered on the outside with a white moldy looking substance.
There seems to be so much more of this white shit relative to the one or a few aphids i find in the pot. I am sure I had more before i started fighting them, but damn can they cause all that white stuff, or is it mold?
Can't take pics that close but would love to hear descriptions of what your roots looked like magnified, or up close
smokadepep
Member
can root aphids transfer from garden to garden by equipment? I had a small root aphid infestation this past summer, I scrapped everything. It has been basically bare for the past month or so, a few leaves on the ground here and there and some trace roots on my tables that I will eventually scrub off, but I have dumped all of the soil and plants I had. I am actually in the process of moving to another spot and wasn't sure if when I took my tables, my lights or my never been used hydroton, whether I would be transfering the whole aphid problem with it. No one ever says they got root aphids from equipment but better to be safe than sorry.
qupee
Member
I would think it's certainly possible.. but I think unlikely.
Might be smart to keep using some treatments for a while. I'm still treating in flower with Botaniguard, and inoculating with imid very early in veg - of course you can stick to the completely non-toxic stuff like Botaniguard if you want.
G
Guest3498
Aphids can absolutely transfer from garden to garden by equipment, I've seen it happen in a friends garden a couple years ago. Had aphids, shut down for months, and then started back up at a new spot only to get them again. Came over on untreated tables likely.
Root aphid damage showing on this casey , growth stopped with distorted yellowing tips and folded leaves.
Can be saved with chems but too far gone to flower well , clones taken now will look normal in a couple of weeks if needed or bin it if not.
If this plant was the only one and had to be saved , they air layer very fast and recover well once off the damaged rootstock , best option if familiar with the technique , three good plants could be layered from this one and flowered in a month.
Several girls of proven stability expressed intersex following treatment , general stress or pyrethrin overdose , have some unexpected S1,s to play with , every cloud has a silver lineing.
Can be saved with chems but too far gone to flower well , clones taken now will look normal in a couple of weeks if needed or bin it if not.
If this plant was the only one and had to be saved , they air layer very fast and recover well once off the damaged rootstock , best option if familiar with the technique , three good plants could be layered from this one and flowered in a month.
Several girls of proven stability expressed intersex following treatment , general stress or pyrethrin overdose , have some unexpected S1,s to play with , every cloud has a silver lineing.
Evergreen CO
New member
I have the little white micro fuckers crawling in my res and i notice some crawling on my bucket lids about a month ago. I bought some ladybugs 2 weeks back to take care of the situation. I still see some in the res, I don't notice any on my lids anymore. I haven't noticed any stunt in growth.
I discovered a 2008 dissertation that I found very informative; granted root aphids and peach aphids are not the same monsters, but IMHO, the analysis/discussion about the properties of imid on parts of tobacco leaves is informative. Yes, they discovered aphids can be resistant to the properties of imid; a very good read indeed for those using imid to battle RAs:
Quantification of Insecticide Resistance in the Tobacco-Adapted Form of the Green Peach Aphid
BTW...page 175 of the pdf file contains Fig. 8.5. "Effect of imidacloprid rate on the total alkaloids in dried green leaf samples of
the upper and lower leaf positions of flue-cured tobacco plants"...worth a peek.
Dissertation Objectives:
In view of the potential for the development of insecticide resistance in the tobacco adapted form of the green peach aphid, M. persicae, aphid colonies were collected from different geographic locations in the eastern United States to address the following objectives:
1. Determine the differences in tolerance / resistance levels to imidacloprid, a neonicotinoid insecticide in the aphid populations.
2. Assess esterase-based resistance in populations of the tobacco-adapted form of the green peach aphid to develop baseline information for long-term monitoring.
3. Determine the levels of modified acetylcholinesterase resistance (MACE) in aphid populations.
4. Quantify glutathione S- transferase activity in the aphid colonies.
5. Measure the influence of post-exposure temperature on the toxicity of insecticides to the tobacco-adapted form of the green-peach aphid.
6. Determine the distribution and persistence of imidacloprid within the tobacco plant system and its impact on the aphid.
7. Evaluate response of tobacco-adapted form of the green peach aphid to chemicals in four classes of insecticides on flue-cured tobacco in the field.
Fair warning....220 pages total so roll a fatty--or two, or three.
Cheers!
Quantification of Insecticide Resistance in the Tobacco-Adapted Form of the Green Peach Aphid
BTW...page 175 of the pdf file contains Fig. 8.5. "Effect of imidacloprid rate on the total alkaloids in dried green leaf samples of
the upper and lower leaf positions of flue-cured tobacco plants"...worth a peek.
Dissertation Objectives:
In view of the potential for the development of insecticide resistance in the tobacco adapted form of the green peach aphid, M. persicae, aphid colonies were collected from different geographic locations in the eastern United States to address the following objectives:
1. Determine the differences in tolerance / resistance levels to imidacloprid, a neonicotinoid insecticide in the aphid populations.
2. Assess esterase-based resistance in populations of the tobacco-adapted form of the green peach aphid to develop baseline information for long-term monitoring.
3. Determine the levels of modified acetylcholinesterase resistance (MACE) in aphid populations.
4. Quantify glutathione S- transferase activity in the aphid colonies.
5. Measure the influence of post-exposure temperature on the toxicity of insecticides to the tobacco-adapted form of the green-peach aphid.
6. Determine the distribution and persistence of imidacloprid within the tobacco plant system and its impact on the aphid.
7. Evaluate response of tobacco-adapted form of the green peach aphid to chemicals in four classes of insecticides on flue-cured tobacco in the field.
Fair warning....220 pages total so roll a fatty--or two, or three.
Cheers!
orange juice
Member
Those looking at Bayer Advanced Tree & Shrub Protect & Feed make sure to check the product label. Bayer came out with a new formula that's diluted... It's now the same concentration of imidacloprid (0.74%) as bayer Complete Insect Killer. The tree and shrub formula has other junk added that you do not want or need for an extra 50% premium price over Complete Insect Killer. This is labeled as "Granules II" or "Concentrate II"
Bayer tree and shrub II-
Anonym zu www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/64/646810bf-8e73-4bf9-babb-92477ab4c91d.pdf
Bayer Complete Insect Killer-
Anonym zu www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/5d/5d13ea5a-1a9d-4290-abe3-c1d66f4e8929.pdf
Bayer tree and shrub II-
Anonym zu www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/64/646810bf-8e73-4bf9-babb-92477ab4c91d.pdf
Bayer Complete Insect Killer-
Anonym zu www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/5d/5d13ea5a-1a9d-4290-abe3-c1d66f4e8929.pdf
Has anyone ever used http://www.groworganic.com/good-bug-blend-lb.html such things before? These " habitats" for predatory bugs. Gimmick? Or sort of just a crap shoot if you get any predator bugs.
M
MacGyver420
FRANKIE1579
Member
First got these suckers 3 years ago. Took me 3 months to figure out what the problem was. Hit the vegging plants with Bayer Complete. Instant recovery on about 80%, dead RA's everywhere. Did not see a sign for 1 year with excellent harvests.
Then they came back. Bayer had no effect anymore. Stepped up to Criterion 75 WSP. Same as Merit but far cheaper. Major improvement but bugs kept returning. I use 0.5 grams per gallon which is FAR over the recommended, although nothing in flower. I live in a medical state and supply to many dispensaries where medicine is tested for harmful substances. Passed with flying colors every time.
Aphids definately build up a resistance to IMID. Started with recommended, then 0.25 per gallon, now 0.5 per gallon. This rate holds them in check with no signs in flower but does not eliminate them entirely.
I tried Acephate. ABSOLUTELY no effect. The bugs made a comeback with weekly applications given. Imid worked far far better as it holds them in check.
I tried Excite R on its own. Exactly the same as Evergreen 60-6. Knocks them down but not enough to grow a problem free plant through flower.
Have not tried predatory bugs. Never had them work on other pests.
Recently I ordered some Verticillium Lecanni. They have had excellent results in Europe for greenhouse management of aphids. Have not used any yet. The problem is it is $50 for 1 kg. Dosage is 20 grams per gallon. Yeah $1 per gallon. Botaniguard is about 0.70 cents per gallon. Both of those do not seem very cost effective.
My plan of attack, as none of the previous methods have shown to work completelyon their own.
In Veg
0.5 grams per gallon Criterion 75 every 2 water.
2 ml per gallon Excite R every water.
In Flower
2 ml per gallon Excite R every week in flower till week 4.
As you can see, this gets expensive FAST. My watering requires about 3-400 gallons per week.
Criterion 75. $65 for 180 grams = 18 Cents per Gallon
Excite R $70 for 1 pint = 14 Cent per Galon
So that is 32 cents per gallon or about $80-100 a week on pesticides alone.
If i add the fungicides it will go up to $4-500 per week. I am still deciding if I should make that investment in the hopes that this added will eliminate them completely, or just focus on control and not elimination.
In other words, these fucking bugs SUCK.
Then they came back. Bayer had no effect anymore. Stepped up to Criterion 75 WSP. Same as Merit but far cheaper. Major improvement but bugs kept returning. I use 0.5 grams per gallon which is FAR over the recommended, although nothing in flower. I live in a medical state and supply to many dispensaries where medicine is tested for harmful substances. Passed with flying colors every time.
Aphids definately build up a resistance to IMID. Started with recommended, then 0.25 per gallon, now 0.5 per gallon. This rate holds them in check with no signs in flower but does not eliminate them entirely.
I tried Acephate. ABSOLUTELY no effect. The bugs made a comeback with weekly applications given. Imid worked far far better as it holds them in check.
I tried Excite R on its own. Exactly the same as Evergreen 60-6. Knocks them down but not enough to grow a problem free plant through flower.
Have not tried predatory bugs. Never had them work on other pests.
Recently I ordered some Verticillium Lecanni. They have had excellent results in Europe for greenhouse management of aphids. Have not used any yet. The problem is it is $50 for 1 kg. Dosage is 20 grams per gallon. Yeah $1 per gallon. Botaniguard is about 0.70 cents per gallon. Both of those do not seem very cost effective.
My plan of attack, as none of the previous methods have shown to work completelyon their own.
In Veg
0.5 grams per gallon Criterion 75 every 2 water.
2 ml per gallon Excite R every water.
In Flower
2 ml per gallon Excite R every week in flower till week 4.
As you can see, this gets expensive FAST. My watering requires about 3-400 gallons per week.
Criterion 75. $65 for 180 grams = 18 Cents per Gallon
Excite R $70 for 1 pint = 14 Cent per Galon
So that is 32 cents per gallon or about $80-100 a week on pesticides alone.
If i add the fungicides it will go up to $4-500 per week. I am still deciding if I should make that investment in the hopes that this added will eliminate them completely, or just focus on control and not elimination.
In other words, these fucking bugs SUCK.
Alright i am on my first run with coco, and can not help noticing that RA´s are a HUGE problem these days. Havent run into them yet, but i thought i might as well prepare. Im in Denmark and we dont have those products that are recommended in this thread. Bayer products are plentiful here, but just not the same varieties as in the US. So i went ahead and bought a pack of Bayer Provado Sticks, containing 2,5% Imid/50mg per stick. The sticks are supposed to be stuck in the medium and slowly dissolve with watering. Are these any good is my question? If they are any good, my next question is whether they would act better in stick form or better if i dissolve them in water and then water it in manually...let me know if i made a good buy..
Stay Safe
Stay Safe
Never saw them, but that is a good idea. Wish they sold them here. In all likelihood, you don't have them if you're not seeing them or the damage they cause. Sounds like an excellent alternative to the liquid if you can't get liquid. Probably better as a deterrent.
Just don't use them in flower, especially if you are not seeing RAs.
EastCoastMeds
Member
GDK-
I personally would not use them as IMO, imid is nasty shit. If you do use them, definitely don't stick them in the soil.......dissolve them in water first.
I personally would not use them as IMO, imid is nasty shit. If you do use them, definitely don't stick them in the soil.......dissolve them in water first.
budalicious
New member
try the air pots instead of the smart pots. Plastic pots that have mounds within the side of the pot. each mound has a hole on its top, about the size of a #2 pencil.
recommended, also the mounds on one end that have no hole, to be at the top of the pot. This way the water will stay in the pot longer during watering.
recommended, also the mounds on one end that have no hole, to be at the top of the pot. This way the water will stay in the pot longer during watering.
White-rhino
Member
Yep, pyrethrins are the way to go. I see one knat in the grow room. and out comes the CV-80D, available at any farm supply store. http://bugsource.com/cv_80d_farm_dairy_spray_county_vet.html
I use that shit everywhere I see a bug. - Spider crawling across the floor? Bye Bye bitch. A fly in the house? Bye bitches. It kills anything in the insect world immediately (supposedly by paralyzing them). Apply it to the perimeter of the room and it will keep killing shit for a little while especially if you shell out big dollars for the synthetic kind (AKA permethrin) .
Probably shouldn't use it during budding though. I wouldn't. It might be perfectly safe, but still....
