A Pain In Molasses

[h.h.]

So do we discourage root exudates by adding molasses, encouraging the plant to store them in reserve?
Then what I'm talking about, i guess I'm hitchhiking, but... Should we,for health reasons, be trying to encourage a sweeter plant?

 

[schwilly]

the fact something is peer-reviewed does not mean it supports your position. you have nothing but anecdotes. when confronted with lack of evidence, your response is to ask for evidence refuting your assertion.

"can you prove it isn't true", in other words.

Yea, well, that's just like, your opinion, man..

I've provided evidence proving a mechanism in other plants that could account for what I claim in cannabis. Nothing but anecdotes? Look that word up. And my links do support my position.

Yes, I did ask you for evidence that would refute anything I claimed...? And this seems odd to you somehow?

I didn't set out to prove anything. It's not possible in this scenario. I just wanted to have a discussion, maybe learn a thing or two. You come in and tell me "not to argue" with you like you're king shit and try to turn the discussion into an argument and dick swinging contest.

I know what I say seems far-fetched and flies in the face of conventional wisdom. I expect people to disagree vocally. I just know it can be done with candor and respect, especially on this site.



woulda owned that contest too

 

[schwilly]

Scwilly; Perhaps you can post some full studies supporting plant uptake of whole organic molecules. I'm interested.

I did post some links with summaries or excerpts regarding that process.

I do have access to full journals at school and will try to find and paste some full relevant papers here. Fucking labor day, busy as shit but I will try to take a look next time I'm free on campus.

 

[mad librettist]

Schwilly the problem is lack of logic in the way you jump to conclusions.


That's why I was dismissive. We have no basis for discussio. Because we don't agree on the terms.

You referred to stories of buds getting sweeter from molasses and I have heard lots of ANECDOTAL evidence for that and I assume you have too.

The studies you posted simply DO NOT back up your claims, but are rather loosely related to the subject. I am not going to start a discourse on how not to jump to conclusions from reading scientific literature. Been there, done that, not productive. Its much easier to simply point out the erroneous conclusion for the benefit of other readers.

 

[grapeman]

Last year, while in a meeting with a soil scientist regarding what I believed to be a slight calcium deficiency leading to slight berry skin cracking, the scientist made an interesting comment regarding an annual organic beefsteak contest in which I participate.

He said that in his opinion, the 2 most important ingredients would be kelp and molasses.

 

[mad librettist]

I would be trying to get them to grow my favorite - the brandywine.


Beefsteaks are for corporate buyers.

 

[grapeman]

I would be trying to get them to grow my favorite - the brandywine.


Beefsteaks are for corporate buyers.

LOL - corporate buyers.

 

[City Twin]

Beefsteaks are for corporate buyers.

Or my sandwich.

 

[mad librettist]

Or my sandwich.

you grow them in a garden???

or do you buy from a corporation?


try a slice of brandywine in your sandwich

 

[h.h.]

Cherokee purple.

 

[mad librettist]

also yummy, but the brandywine has a sense memory association for me that gives much pleasure.

 

[rrog]

You don't like Beefsteak??

 

[trichrider]

pot to tomatoes...
hmmn

I, believe that h.h. was closest in describing the retention of the plants natural sugars in explanation for flavors/bouquet.
if the plant need not feed/exude sugars to have a relationship with the flora below, ime the plant will retain those in reserve; possibly enhancing flavors/smells.

just an opinion though.

 

[rrog]

That presumes a feedback mechanism in case soil carb levels increase in the wild. Possible but I wouldn't think likely.

I agree, however that h2 has an elegant concept brewing

 

[jaykush]

Cherokee purple.

damn straight goodness right there.

 

[mad librettist]

if the plant need not feed/exude sugars to have a relationship with the flora below

well that's where you lose me, or perhaps where I lost you? If the plant "need not feed", then the microbes "need not the plant" - there is no relationship.

 

[rrog]

MadL, what the christ does that have to do with tomatoes?

 

[schwilly]

Schwilly the problem is lack of logic in the way you jump to conclusions.


That's why I was dismissive. We have no basis for discussio. Because we don't agree on the terms.

You referred to stories of buds getting sweeter from molasses and I have heard lots of ANECDOTAL evidence for that and I assume you have too.

The studies you posted simply DO NOT back up your claims, but are rather loosely related to the subject. I am not going to start a discourse on how not to jump to conclusions from reading scientific literature. Been there, done that, not productive. Its much easier to simply point out the erroneous conclusion for the benefit of other readers.

You're right, there is obviously a disparity in terms and logic between us. I'm afraid this post will not buck the trend.

I referred to one first-hand experience (anecdotal, yes, of course) regarding me detecting a molasses-like smell from finished buds, that is all. I never mentioned sweetness, flavor, brix, etc.

I never intended to "prove" that I had smelled a molasses-like smell in finished buds. If you thought this was my intent, then of course my logic seems whacked, I cannot prove or disprove what I smell.

The only thing I intended to prove was the existence of a mechanism that could account for aromatic compounds in the root zone being transported to and stored in foliage. The links I posted support the existence of such a mechanism in certain other plants. I am not aware of research that would support such a mechanism in specifically cannabis. If you deem an inference that this mechanism absolutely exists in cannabis as well to be an unfounded conclusion, then I agree. (and never claimed as such)

Though I consider the inference to be highly likely, IMO.

That is the breadth of my position, and has been the whole thread.

"Its much easier to simply point out the erroneous conclusion for the benefit of other readers."

I can tell you are knowledgeable regarding this forum's focus, and by discrediting information you deem erroneous, mostly act to make this forum a better resource. However, approaching this task with the kind of attitude you (and I) have displayed in this thread will only encourage other users to disregard such posts, no room for emotion in science.

 

[mad librettist]

The links I posted support the existence of such a mechanism in certain other plants.

This is what I get from your first link. It's an abstract, not a complete article, with zero explanations, caveats, detailed descriptions of process, nothing. You go ahead and relate what you read below to smelling fish and molasses in cannabis. Do you feel it's the uptake of O-methylcarbamoyloximes and substituted phenylureas in barley that supports your inference or even suspicion?

The uptake by roots from solution, and subsequent translocation to shoots in barley, of two series of non-ionised chemicals, O-methylcarbamoyloximes and substituted phenylureas, were measured, Uptake of the chemicals by roots was greater the more lipophilic the chemical, and fell to a lower limiting value for polar chemicals. Translocation to the shoots was a passive process, and was most efficient for compounds of intermediate polarity. Both processes had reached equilibrium within 24h of treatment. The reported behaviour of many pesticides in various plant species agrees with the derived relationships, but the detailed mechanisms of these processes are unknown.

one down

here is your second "study". Again, an abstract and not a paper any of us can readily access. I'll let you explain exactly what language in here leads you to believe watering with fish hydrolysate makes for fishy buds, or molasses for molasses buds.

n dealing with the passive transport of organic contaminants from soils to plants (including crops), a partition-limited model is proposed in which (i) the maximum (equilibrium) concentration of a contaminant in any location in the plant is determined by partition equilibrium with its concentration in the soil interstitial water, which in turn is determined essentially by the concentration in the soil organic matter (SOM) and (ii) the extent of approach to partition equilibrium, as measured by the ratio of the contaminant concentrations in plant water and soil interstitial water, αpt (≤ 1), depends on the transport rate of the contaminant in soil water into the plant and the volume of soil water solution that is required for the plant contaminant level to reach equilibrium with the external soil-water phase. Through reasonable estimates of plant organic-water compositions and of contaminant partition coefficients with various plant components, the model accounts for calculated values of αpt in several published crop-contamination studies, including near-equilibrium values (i.e., αpt 1) for relatively water-soluble contaminants and lower values for much less soluble contaminants; the differences are attributed to the much higher partition coefficients of the less soluble compounds between plant lipids and plant water, which necessitates much larger volumes of the plant water transport for achieving the equilibrium capacities. The model analysis indicates that for plants with high water contents the plant-water phase acts as the major reservoir for highly water-soluble contaminants. By contrast, the lipid in a plant, even at small amounts, is usually the major reservoir for highly water-insoluble contaminants.

wait.... is this a joke, and the idea was to throw so much technical language at us that we would believe an old yarn? Is this prelude to grape kool-aid buds?

 

[Microbeman]

no room for emotion in science.

For sure and I did not garner enough information from the abstracts to support a general statement that intact organic carbohydrate molecules can be assimiltated somehow by plants. It may be my lack of comprehension. I do remain interested and open minded.