Leonardite as humic acid source

[jungliedunglies]

Trying to determine a humic/fulvic source for my soil; it seems like many of the products out there are derived from leonardite. I know I have read mixed reviews about it in the past, but stumbled upon this and found this last little blurb pretty interesting. It's from another general indoor gardening site, and I have no idea whether it's accurate or just industry posturing:

• Of all the raw materials mentioned, leonardite is the best source of humic acids. Leonardite is a mineral that forms on top of coal beds. It is not to be confused with the minerals leonhardite or leonhardtite (Jackson, Mehl, and Neuendorf 2005). In its natural mineral form leonardite is insoluble and unavailable to plants. The humic acids have to be released from leonardite using a solvent. The refining process of leonardite involves reacting the mineral with sodium hydroxide, aluminum hydroxide, potassium hydroxide or other alkaline materials. Using sodium hydroxide results in an average of 7.5 per cent sodium salt in the final product which can be toxic to plants and can lead to salt build up in the soil. Aluminum hydroxide releases aluminum into the soil which, under certain pH conditions, ties up or competes with other nutrients to make them unavailable for plants to use. Look for humic acids that have been manufactured using potassium hydroxide as a solvent, because it results in potassium remaining in the final product; potassium is a desirable essential plant food. Potassium is the K in the N-P-K number of fertilizer labels.​

 

[mad librettist]

i get my humic acid from compost

 

[CascadeFarmer]

i get my humic acid from compost

Great source!

Trying to determine a humic/fulvic source for my soil

If you want to use a whole leonardite product for soil growing, and there are many advantages to a whole product instead of an extract, go with HumaCarb from Advancing EcoAgriculture in Ohio. The guy has created a method where he ends up with nano sized particles and uses organic suspension agents...it's a liquid. With a whole product it's all about the particle size. Awesome stuff! If you want fulvic acid go with Ful-Power Humic from BioAg, it's actually a fulvic product but because of labeling laws they can't say what it really is. For a humic extract go with Humisolve from BioAg or the products from TeraVita.

 

[jungliedunglies]

ML

Ur funny man, and your message isn't lost...eventually I will get there, lol. I'm trying to get myself situated in indoor organics and am struggling a bit. I've got EWC as a source, but I wasn't sure if that was sufficient, so I grabbed some granular humic acid and threw that in the mix. Doing some retroactive research now I suppose because doing it before would have made too much sense ...I find the chemical details of the refinement process interesting, but your point is well taken that there are easier methods which make the whole thing not even a consideration.

 

[jungliedunglies]

Great source!

If you want to use a whole leonardite product for soil growing, and there are many advantages to a whole product instead of an extract, go with HumaCarb from Advancing EcoAgriculture in Ohio. The guy has created a method where he ends up with nano sized particles and uses organic suspension agents...it's a liquid. With a whole product it's all about the particle size. Awesome stuff! If you want fulvic acid go with Ful-Power Humic from BioAg, it's actually a fulvic product but because of labeling laws they can't say what it really is. For a humic extract go with Humisolve from BioAg or the products from TeraVita.

Thanks! Yeah...I find that at least part of the struggle is sorting through the consumer market to find the right things to be using, so I very much appreciate the recommendations. I will certainly look into those and hopefully have my act together with compost by next year.

 

[CascadeFarmer]

Thanks! Yeah...I find that at least part of the struggle is sorting through the consumer market to find the right things to be using, so I very much appreciate the recommendations. I will certainly look into those and hopefully have my act together with compost by next year.

Regardless of compost Ful-Power Humic is great as a foliar and HumaCarb helps build soil. I'd still rely on compost though but those 2 products are good ones IMO. HumCarb is cheap, like less than $20 a gallon, and you need way less than a gallon per acre per year to see benefits. How much compost per acre would you need?

It's the particle size. Do the math in regards to surface area with a whole humate product say at 50 microns and Humacarb at say 1 micron with the same amount of material weight wise. What's the surface area of a 50 micron particle then that same space filled with 1 micron particles and their total surface area? The surface area in a gallon of HumaCarb is mind boggling. It acts as a substrate for fungal activity.

 

[rrog]

ML

Ur funny man, and your message isn't lost...eventually I will get there, lol.

Don't worry. I'm in the same boat trying to get to the same place as you. I hope to start my compost pile this week

 

[mad librettist]

just FYI, I have never used humic or fulvic acid products, and I get very nice results.


I might experiment with these things if they landed in my lap though.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

... If you want fulvic acid go with Ful-Power Humic from BioAg, it's actually a fulvic product but because of labeling laws they can't say what it really is.

Interesting. I thought labeling laws would restrict saying what it isn't.

 

[Dislexus]

Currently I'm using Soil Mender Humate.. its the consistency of really good, really dry EWC. I mix it with my dry mix, and also my EWC slurry topdressings. 12.99 for 5 lbs.. yeesh

Also use Medina liquid seaweed, it has humic and fulvic acid in the ingredients.

Always lookin for more sources without exposing my ladies to diseases/bugs..

 

[GoneRooty]

Actually, certain states like Oregon and California don't recognize "fulvic acid" as it's own substance, and refer to fulvic acid under the umbrella term of humic acid. This stops them from labelling fulvic acid as such in certain states.

 

[mad librettist]

i think it's funny that some states claim something exists while others don't, and they are ok with this.

 

[CT Guy]

I think the claims of humic acid as a fungal food substrate are greatly exaggerated, if not flat out wrong. All my testing and MM's testing with the microscope have shown the exact opposite to be the case.

 

[guest2012y]

I've used Humic and fulvic acid products off and on for a several years now.....basically on a level like Mad said,"if it falls in my lap".
I see no difference between the plants that were ran through cycles with or without it. I'm assuming that if you have a good percentage of humic material in your soil...everything is fine and you're wasting your $$$ adding more this and that.

 

[jungliedunglies]

I think the claims of humic acid as a fungal food substrate are greatly exaggerated, if not flat out wrong. All my testing and MM's testing with the microscope have shown the exact opposite to be the case.

Firstly, thank you everyone for sharing your experience. I would imagine it gets mundane for you more knowledgable guys to address things which to you seem simple, but it really is helpful to those of us trying to find the right path.

One thing that I do know is that there is a massive percentage of soil microbiology that science knows precious little about simply because such a small percentage of the organisms that are assumed to be there have been cultured in the lab. To me its such a cool area of science, as it is driving at understanding some of the earliest biological processes and very clearly illustrating the common molecular links between all life on our planet.

There is so much misinformation out there in the form of everything from half-truths to outright pseudo-science, and although I far from claim to be an expert at any of it, I unfortunately know just enough to be pretty cornfused.

 

[jungliedunglies]

I guess my other understanding of humic though is that it is a very efficient chelant...am I wrong in thinking this is another reason we want to make sure it is plentiful? Are there other organic compounds which are performing this duty moreso than those in humus?

Could be a dumbass question, but it is genuine.

 

[mad librettist]

lol just noticed the tone I use as an all-round has humates listed in the ingredients

 

[organicterra]

Here's some good info from the folks at Bioag.
http://www.bioag.com/educationandresources.html

 

[habeeb]

I've used Humic and fulvic acid products off and on for a several years now.....basically on a level like Mad said,"if it falls in my lap".
I see no difference between the plants that were ran through cycles with or without it. I'm assuming that if you have a good percentage of humic material in your soil...everything is fine and you're wasting your $$$ adding more this and that.

I'm more on this boat..

it's funny the more I use less product / $$ , the better I grow


I am in no way saying humic is not good or waste of time.. I just don't use it at this time

 

[guest2012y]

I'm more on this boat..

it's funny the more I use less product / $$ , the better I grow


I am in no way saying humic is not good or waste of time.. I just don't use it at this time

I just have the idea like Mad does...use compost and EWC. It's in there. I'm pretty sure there are soil mixes that require an additional humic/fulvic acid source...I'm also sure mine isn't one of them.
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