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The Future of Energy

Frozenguy

Active member
Veteran
I grew up with my parents not knowing whether we did play too long under the Tschernobyl fallout. g
:( That is difficult to read. No one should have to worry about their children or themselves playing on our wonderful playground Earth. Makes me rethink my support of nuclear power.. But my faith in it's potential keeps me from turning my back..
 

DiscoBiscuit

weed fiend
Veteran
Most of the energy humans create is used to overcome the force of gravity or attraction.

Why would it not make sense to understand and utilize these forces rather than waste time and capital to make a mess of our planet?

We could wait until we perfect space travel and kick Earth to the proverbial curb. But science says we only have a few decades before man's influence jump-starts natural warming influences we can no longer manage.
 

alkalien

Member
:( That is difficult to read. No one should have to worry about their children or themselves playing on our wonderful playground Earth. Makes me rethink my support of nuclear power.. But my faith in it's potential keeps me from turning my back..

No need to feel sorry :)

It's just some things make up your mind, they grow into you. Of course passed on to you from your parents. It's just what I learned from it. I do admit, I did think like you for quite some time. I then learned more and more details which aren't that prominent, that changed my thinking :)
 

Dudesome

Active member
Veteran
I love where this conversation is going. FG thanks for bringin intelligence into this.


just to underline: so so many opportunities for us in the upcoming future. So so many things that keep us from getting there. yet so so many people with such different points of view.
all this makes me want to live on and see what happens. I sure am glad I'm still young :)



by the way. If GP's points werent so political and less rude, he might have fit into this perfectly with his arguments.
 

Frozenguy

Active member
Veteran
The risk part is just one part, that's something you have to decide for your own. I can totaly understand people saying that they accept. I can't so that's simple for me. Nothing I would really argue about. It's just, the unpredicted can and does happen and I don't wanna be where it happens.

I dispute that they are econimcal. Let me just throw the details which make me really wonder at you. I'm cool which what ever the conclusion is you come to.

No insurance company insures those plants, they tend to do the right thing...
Well, yes this is a problem. In my opinion it stems from the lack of safety measures; something that should go hand in hand with nuclear power. I feel once designers really take safety into account and change their perspective on design, insurance companies will jump on board. But this is a very large step in nuclear power, possibly requiring a new fuel like Helium-3.

I do agree that this problem, and its cause, are not acceptable.

No modern country is building a nuclear power plant at this moment besides France and Finland. Those work on the new european super plant. Siemens was part of this joint venture and pulled out before Fukushima happened.

The US department of energy contracted Bechtel for a new nuclear reactor to be used on the new super carriers.
And Westinghouse has already started construction of four of the new ap1000 reactors in China and 14 in US.

This is not an argument to support nuclear power, I'm just saying..

Every year in summer the french get problems because their nuclear power plants stop working because of the heat. Every winter the frech get into problem because their nuclear power plants have to shut down because it's to cold. They get 60% of their energy from nuclear power and can only import 9GW of power so they are pretty nervous about that.
Yeah but with better design in the future I think this goes away. I see that as a problem with "primitive" design surrounded by environmentalists fearing river contamination. They have a valid point too. I'm not too happy with nuclear power at it's current level, but I feel it has a lot of potential once developed to acceptable standards.
What does the cold do to the reactors? Freeze the river?

Imagine this one guy, who protects the dispossal of the burnt nuclear fuel. He sits there doing nothing but protecting for about 1 Mio years. Which is a pretty fair assumption. He costs like 30 000€ or $ a year. For 1 million years that's 30 billion € or $. I can't imagine this can be enconomical.
Very wasteful indeed. Though another problem that I feel will disappear with added development. Especially with the use of Helium-3 and its virtually zero spent fuel. Until then, this does pose a economical and safety concern. Safety in terms of accidents/disasters or terrorist activity.

I could go on for a bit but am far too stoned. As said, just giving you the details, I don't think there are either right or wrong opinions, just the facts I think about....

A respectable collection of points alkalien. My responses are just that, responses and thoughts. I'm going to go think and reflect on this discussion and let it soak in.

:smoke out:
 
G

Guest 88950

It's funny that you think MY ignorance is showing through.

The only FUCKING reason the "customer" is getting a "stable price" (as you put it) is because the whole operation (from manufacturing, sales and installation) is FUCKING subsidized by government. From the Feds, to the State of California on down to the city/county of San Diego, artificially affecting the price of solar at the cost of the common taxpayer.

What the fuck don't you understand about that?

Sun Edison wouldn't be here if the subsidies were removed from the equation from top to bottom.

What the fuck don't you understand about that?

Why do you think that a company that survives on working the system at taxpayer's expense and not on the free market is worthy of hero worship?


keep letting your intelligence shine.


from your own words you supply fruit or produce to Wal-Mart, correct?

do you receive any Subsadizes to help you survive b/c Wal-Mart likes buying really cheap?
 

DiscoBiscuit

weed fiend
Veteran
... The only ******* reason the "customer" is getting a "stable price" (as you put it) is because the whole operation (from manufacturing, sales and installation) is ******* subsidized by government. From the Feds, to the State of California on down to the city/county of San Diego, artificially affecting the price of solar at the cost of the common taxpayer.

At last those subsidies delivery a more affordable energy cost to the consumer. Oil subsidies go toward bottom-line profit because big oil would still be profitable paying the taxes they don't have to.

Sun Edison wouldn't be here if the subsidies were removed from the equation from top to bottom.
Less subsidies, big oil wouldn't have received breaks from digging dry holes in the ground.

Why do you think that a company that survives on working the system at taxpayer's expense and not on the free market is worthy of hero worship?
The funny thing is you're subsidizing your argument that tax breaks aren't tax breaks to big oil but they are to alternatives.

You're thinking with your head in the political toilet. No wonder your ideas are like swirlies that never flush.
 

headband 707

Plant whisperer
Veteran
We don't subsidize oil. Do some research.

It's like ringing the bell! once rung, it cannot be un-rung.

So our lair in chief obama says so, greenies pick up on the bullshit via msnbc and believe it.

Pathetic. Do your own research and thinking on the subject and quit allowing people to plant bullshit falsities in your head.

There are NO oil subsidies. obama only says there are knowing a vast ocean of idiots will believe that shit and cry for justice against oil companies.


Oh bro where are you getting your info lol

oh yes they do subsides the oil and electric companies LOL..
profitable businesses on the planet. They do not need subsidies to survive.
The United States government provides over $40 billion in subsidies, in the form of direct funding and tax credits, to oil companies. This is money that is designed to make it easier for those companies to provide cheap fuel to the people of the United States, something they are basically failing to do. Prices remain high, even as the companies in question ask for more subsidies and continue to rake in record profits.
FORTY. BILLION. DOLLARS.
Only 38 countries in the world have government budgets larger than $40 billion. Argentina, one of the wealthier countries in the developing world, with a population of 40.7 million people, does not spend that much on running its entire government. In fact, there are 192 nations that spend less on running their country than the United States does in free giveaways to the most profitable companies in the world.
:jump:
peace out Headband707


Our country suffers due to this sheer ignorance, and our government depends on it.
:dance013:
 
G

Guest 88950

Grapeman

your whole industry is dependent upon govt subsidizes so why are you so against any for renewable energy?

maybe you are afraid green energy subsidizes will dilute any subsidizes you get b/c the govt is broke.

or you could just be a hater sharing right wing extremist views that "govt subsadizes are bad and we need to cut them out..............except for the ones i get"
 

DiscoBiscuit

weed fiend
Veteran
That's no different than anybody railing against the same, government assistance they receive.

We've got a presidential candidate knocking the same, government assistance they receive in their own private business.

Our leader in the house is actually hedging against the US bond. He's playing it off as savvy investing, ignoring the fact he's a player in the game of default... or not.

If he lobbies to prevent default, he's not the savvy investor his handlers are insisting. But if we do, the parameters of the investment change such that he could be a rich man.

The former is a hypocrite and that's common. The latter is a potential crook and I think we'll see some change of direction. He's already reduced his hedge from over $13,000 to $3250. He'll either pull out of the hedge completely or cease making public statements over how staunchly he resists budget compromise.
 

grapeman

Active member
Veteran
The added pejoratives just make your referenced argument weaker.

Exxon/Mobile doesn't just receive assistance in the form of subsidies. They're but one of 68% of American corporations that pay no federal income taxes. Some of these businesses get rebates on top of paying zero federal taxes. These companies lobby to reward their tax-accountants no-tax status to better serve their no-tax interests.



Here's the ConnocoPhillips CEO refusing to apologize for saying 'It's un-American' to end oil subsidies.

When you base your applications on idealistic pontifications you can say anything you want, doesn't make it reality. I guess that's how all the pejoratives originate. If you were telling the truth you wouldn't get ticked. You're just pissed because you can't float doves like cable and radio shock-jocks.

How 'bout some good ol' conservative views on big-oil subsidies? Is Heritage far-right enough?

http://www.askheritage.org/whats-the-truth-behind-oil-subsidies/

Obviously Heritage has to include alternatives with big-oil interests. It just affords them the opportunity to be intellectually honest over big-oil subsidies.

Just read your entire shitloge. while I see the "word" subsidy, what you post is tax breaks. Tax breaks available for the most part, to all business in America. What I posted up some pages back were facts and not some article that mentions subsidies but does not outline what they are. You cannot because there are none. (but a few that don't amount to a hill of beans)

I dealing with idiots here. You claim subsidies as a problem, post an ARTICLE that has the word "subsidy" in the title, but then goes on to deal with tax breaks that for the most past are available to all businesses.

We got one guy here that keeps posting that solar is profitable without all the subsidies since his IQ is to low to understand, now you join his ranks by posting some shit article that uses the word in the title but does not show any oil subsidies.

Another round of bullshit disco. Your ilk tosses around the word 'subsidy" as it does "Racist" and "denier" for the consumption of the ignoramuses on your team..... and yourself I'm sure.
 

grapeman

Active member
Veteran
Grapeman

your whole industry is dependent upon govt subsidizes so why are you so against any for renewable energy?

maybe you are afraid green energy subsidizes will dilute any subsidizes you get b/c the govt is broke.

or you could just be a hater sharing right wing extremist views that "govt subsadizes are bad and we need to cut them out..............except for the ones i get"

My industry??

WTF do you know about my industry??

Corn is subsidized (government and ethanol), as is cotton, sugar, and a few other crops.

What I grow is not, and is sold globally in a "supply & demand" market.

Fuck off. You are too stupid to even post here.
 

DiscoBiscuit

weed fiend
Veteran
...shitloge... hill of beans... I dealing with idiots... IQ is to low... shit ... bullshit... ilk tosses... "Racist"... "denier"... ignoramuses...

Tax breaks, subsidies, assistance, corporate welfare. Call it what you want, Mr. Symantics.
 

DiscoBiscuit

weed fiend
Veteran
My industry??

WTF do you know about my industry??

Corn is subsidized (government and ethanol), as is cotton, sugar, and a few other crops.

What I grow is not, and is sold globally in a "supply & demand" market.

Fuck off. You are too stupid to even post here.

Crop Insurance: Federally subsidized crop insurance
has been available for most field crops and about
25 tree crops. However, the federal government has
been expanding its role for several years in providing
subsidized crop insurance for vegetable crops
and more tree crops, and the USDA has a mandate to
provide crop insurance programs for as many crops
as is feasible.
Of the total crop insurance outlays of
approximately $2 billion per year, only about ten
percent is provided as insurance subsidies to horticultural
crops. Through the Non-insured Assistance
Program, free crop insurance for crop disasters is
provided for horticultural crops with outlays averaging
$100 million in recent years. Of this money,
somewhat less than half would be allocated to California
crops.


http://giannini.ucop.edu/media/are-update/files/articles/v6n22.pdf
I mentioned earlier that grape's posts would be more valuable (less the pejoratives.) Now I'm beginning to wonder. :chin:
 
G

Guest 88950

My industry??

WTF do you know about my industry??

Corn is subsidized (government and ethanol), as is cotton, sugar, and a few other crops.

What I grow is not, and is sold globally in a "supply & demand" market.

Fuck off. You are too stupid to even post here.



ok, so you do not receive any subsidizes. great.

most agriculture crops are subsidized where i live and i will admit that i know very little on the subject.

good thing that your opinion doesnt carry any weight.

if you communicate with your workers in the same manner as you carry on here then it must be miserable working for or around you.

shine on GM, shine on.
 

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