Why do YOU grow organic?

[bract]

I'm not fighting tumors, I'm fighting a mood disorder. And I'm not a dispensary.

You're not alone on the mood thing. But you can prevent tumors as well as fight them. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of "da cure". Wouldn't you rather prevent cancer than try to destroy it once it has grown?

Self proclaimed part-time loon right here. Don't mind me.

You don't have to be a dispensary to offer full service . Protect and serve, thats been my motto.

wow. what was this thread about again oh yeah. i grow organic so MM and CC won't pick on me. FTW!

 

[Microbeman]

One thing for certain, this (extraction) is not my element. I do wonder if it prevents tumors....any evidence?

 

[slyman]

i havent had the pleasure to grow yet but i believe the principles in organic/natural gardening not only help to cultivate your garden but yourself as a person as well

 

[supermanlives]

its alot more fun

 

[bract]

One thing for certain, this (extraction) is not my element. I do wonder if it prevents tumors....any evidence?

One study in mice and rats suggested that cannabinoids may have a protective effect against the development of certain types of tumors. [3] During this 2-year study, groups of mice and rats were given various doses of THC by gavage. A dose-related decrease in the incidence of hepatic adenoma tumors and hepatocellular carcinoma was observed in the mice. Decreased incidences of benign tumors (polyps and adenomas) in other organs (mammary gland, uterus, pituitary, testis, and pancreas) were also noted in the rats. In another study, delta-9-THC, delta-8-THC, and cannabinol were found to inhibit the growth of Lewis lung adenocarcinoma cells in vitro and in vivo .[4] In addition, other tumors have been shown to be sensitive to cannabinoid-induced growth inhibition.[5-8]

Cannabinoids may cause antitumor effects by various mechanisms, including induction of cell death, inhibition of cell growth, and inhibition of tumor angiogenesis and metastasis. [9-11] Cannabinoids appear to kill tumor cells but do not affect their nontransformed counterparts and may even protect them from cell death. These compounds have been shown to induce apoptosis in glioma cells in culture and induce regression of glioma tumors in mice and rats. Cannabinoids protect normal glial cells of astroglial and oligodendroglial lineages from apoptosis mediated by the CB1 receptor. [10,11]

In an in vivo model using severe combined immunodeficient mice, subcutaneous tumors were generated by inoculating the animals with cells from human non-small cell lung carcinoma cell lines.[12] Tumor growth was inhibited by 60% in THC-treated mice compared with vehicle-treated control mice. Tumor specimens revealed that THC had antiangiogenic and antiproliferative effects.

In addition, both plant-derived and endogenous cannabinoids have been studied for anti- inflammatory effects. A mouse study demonstrated that endogenous cannabinoid system signaling is likely to provide intrinsic protection against colonic inflammation. [13] As a result, a hypothesis that phytocannabinoids and endocannabinoids may be useful in the prevention and treatment of colorectal cancer has been developed.[14]

Another study has shown delta-9-THC is a potent and selective antiviral agent against Kaposi sarcoma-associated herpesvirus (KSHV), also known as human herpesvirus 8.[15] The researchers concluded that additional studies on cannabinoids and herpesviruses are warranted, as they may lead to the development of drugs that inhibit the reactivation of these oncogenic viruses. Subsequently, another group of investigators reported increased efficiency of KSHV infection of human dermal microvascular epithelial cells in the presence of low doses of delta-9-THC.[16]

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/healthprofessional/page4

 

[rckymtnthuglife]

Because I'm too dumb for hydro....oh yeah it tastes way better.

 

[Lazyman]

I've posted hash that tested over 50% here... my blackberry kush tested 54%, 45 to 160 microns (commercial). All of my commerical grade ice water hash tests around 50%. Check out that lastest issue of Kush Magazine. Steep Hill Lab and I just published an article on ice water hash potency.

Your definition of clean is far from accurate. You mean potent, but seeing how Vector is actually 3 gases and has ppm contaminants.... I'd say "clean" isn't really a good way to describe anything made via bho. Vector contaminants don't purge bro, hate to break it to you. Purging and heating bho actually concentrates the contaminants from the vector gas mix.

My definition of clean is based on the amount of cannabinoids and psychotropic compounds in the sample compared to the % of contaminants (by contaminants I mean leaf particles, lipids, dust, spores, etc, anything that doesn't get you high.) Your bubble hash at ~50% is also ~50% non-psychoactive contaminants.

My last batch of alcohol hash I had tested came out thusly:

Sample Type
Honey Oil
Moisture
Moisture
THC %
66.21
CBD %
01.13
CBN %
02.66

Compounded, that's 70% cannabinoids and 30% contaminants.

I have never made BHO, and have no interest in Vector or its kin. Denatured alcohol is made up of ethanol, methanol, and MEK, all of which have a boiling point under 200*F. I purge my extracts and decarboxylize them carefully in an oven until no solvents remain, and since denatured alcohol is commonly used to clean glass, no residue is left over.

Say what you want about what high you like, but for my lungs I prefer to take in fewer hits of a more potent and cleaner extract than more hits of a dirtier one. Making alcohol hash out of bubble sounds like a lot of extra work when you can simply make good alcohol hash from the get-go.

 

[bract]

My definition of clean is based on the amount of cannabinoids and psychotropic compounds in the sample compared to the % of contaminants (by contaminants I mean leaf particles, lipids, dust, spores, etc, anything that doesn't get you high.) Your bubble hash at ~50% is also ~50% non-psychoactive contaminants.

My last batch of alcohol hash I had tested came out thusly:
...

Compounded, that's 70% cannabinoids and 30% contaminants.

The "contaminants" you refer to are THE TERPENOIDS, and are responsible for the affects of the THC via biochemical modulation. Terpenoids, flavonoids, esters, ect do not get you directly high. BUT without these terpenoids THC is boring, and useless as an intoxicant (won't get ya high). Rethink what those cannabinoid numbers are telling you, because you are missing more than half the story by referring to, and thinking of, terpenoids and flavonoids as "contaminants". These terpenoids, flavonoids, esters ect make up a significant % of the concentrate and dictate the high. Contaminant, I think not. Ask Sam.

read this BEFORE replying as your ideas about potency and purity are pretty far off (and typical for weed forums). This is the basic science.
http://cannabis-science.com/aroma_flavor.html

Because of this diversity in the many functions of terpenes, whole cannabis (a.k.a. poly-pharmaceutical cannabis) has a higher therapeutic index than single-component THC (Marinol).

If you really want to know what is going on I suggest this book:
http://books.google.com/books/about/Chemistry_of_Terpenoids_and_Carotenoids.html?id=Gr7jDZ8WhVUC

today's terpenoid of the day is Citral. C10H16O.

 

[bract]

Or check Chapter 7. Natural Cannabiniods, interactions and affects. This is from Dr G. It's really old and they didn't know what was going on, but they were trying to figure it out.
The medicinal uses of cannabis and cannabinoids By Geoffrey William Guy, Brian Anthony Whittle, Philip Robson
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=AznCzOxvrtwC&oi=fnd&pg=PA165&dq=terpenoid+modulating+cannabinoid&ots=zp_fuDAOEz&sig=dimmbPCCbma3BW1fDm-JHKR1SnA#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[Lazyman]

Since nobody is testing for them, how do you know what the non THC components are? They could be lipids, fertilizer, you just don't know.

 

[bract]

Since nobody is testing for them, how do you know what the non THC components are? They could be lipids, fertilizer, you just don't know.

not making any sense here. did you read and comprehend my last posts about the importance of terpenoids and the lack of importance regarding THC%? or catch the part about how you may be raising your THC% by removing these crucial terpenoids with solvents and purging? which actually makes the high less natural and less effective.

 

[mad librettist]

The "contaminants" you refer to are THE TERPENOIDS, and are responsible for the affects of the THC via biochemical modulation. Terpenoids, flavonoids, esters, ect do not get you directly high. BUT without these terpenoids THC is boring, and useless as an intoxicant (won't get ya high). Rethink what those cannabinoid numbers are telling you, because you are missing more than half the story by referring to, and thinking of, terpenoids and flavonoids as "contaminants". These terpenoids, flavonoids, esters ect make up a significant % of the concentrate and dictate the high. Contaminant, I think not. Ask Sam.

read this BEFORE replying as your ideas about potency and purity are pretty far off (and typical for weed forums). This is the basic science.
http://cannabis-science.com/aroma_flavor.html


If you really want to know what is going on I suggest this book:
http://books.google.com/books/about/Chemistry_of_Terpenoids_and_Carotenoids.html?id=Gr7jDZ8WhVUC

today's terpenoid of the day is Citral. C10H16O.

so my hash oil tastes great and really gets me ripped. am i doing something wrong? Because your book report and my experience clash.

 

[Microbeman]

Bract; Thanks for the info. I'll trace down the actual studies.

When Lazy and Mad are discussing alcohol hash oil do you just mean where you mix cannabis with a solvent and cook it off? If so, as I recall from my cannabis using days I considered it a source of headaches and very grossly contaminated [guess it depends who makes it] At the time, I was eating a gram of black Afghani everyday; much more to my liking.

I thought/think there is some other process using the term 'wash'. Please enlighten me.

 

[mad librettist]

Bract; Thanks for the info. I'll trace down the actual studies.

When Lazy and Mad are discussing alcohol hash oil do you just mean where you mix cannabis with a solvent and cook it off? If so, as I recall from my cannabis using days I considered it a source of headaches and very grossly contaminated [guess it depends who makes it] At the time, I was eating a gram of black Afghani everyday; much more to my liking.

I thought/think there is some other process using the term 'wash'. Please enlighten me.

the quick wash methods take care of the quality issues.

I use gear chilled overnight in the freezer, alcohol kept in same, and the bud is frozen when I begin. The absolute maximum time the plant material spends in the solvent is 2 minutes.

I like to use fresh frozen material, as it soaks up less alcohol and allows for less impurities.

 

[heady blunts]

mad & lazy better WIZE UP!

 

[Microbeman]

the quick wash methods take care of the quality issues.

I use gear chilled overnight in the freezer, alcohol kept in same, and the bud is frozen when I begin. The absolute maximum time the plant material spends in the solvent is 2 minutes.

I like to use fresh frozen material, as it soaks up less alcohol and allows for less impurities.

Please treat me as if I'm the ignorant individual I am.

gear = ?
type of alcohol?
bud = flower? ;>
procedure; 1, 2, 3....

 

[redneck shogun]

Am I the only one that just ends up smoking the trim during desperate times? I have to admit my attempts at hash making have never turned out well, but I am a dumb redneck after all.

 

[mad librettist]

Please treat me as if I'm the ignorant individual I am.

gear = ?
type of alcohol?
bud = flower? ;>
procedure; 1, 2, 3....

MM, there is a whole freaking forum for hashmaking!

we should at least start a new thread.


gear - glass jar, ladle, two medium wire colanders and one smallish one,
type of alcohol - denatured (for cleaning glass), isopropyl, or ethanol. some use hexane)
bud = flower, yes. I am too good for popcorn! it goes in the hash pile. I try to keep popcorn and trim separate because they absorb liquid at different rates. trim makes better hash oil than bud IMVHO.

prodecure - see any QWISO thread. essentially a quick wash, followed by filtration, and more fitration if desired. I try to keep the process cold because more crap I don't want will be soluble at higher temps.

 

[mad librettist]

err... my quick wash smells and tastes... only word for it is "hashy".

very hashy. you are not going to get away with smoking this in public.


I am not making anything from concentrates. I am using trim and bud.

let's have a little more reading before answering, bract. You keep saying I am doing stuff I am not doing. And I just compared our signatures. Mine seems to have useful links...

 

[GanjaSnake]

Poor thread... totally derailed!

I for one grow organically because that is all I really know. I've never tried hydro, and chemical nutrients are all so expensive. So I just do like I do my tomatoes, compost and
teas work for me.