What to do with people that do nothing??

[DiscoBiscuit]

So you can see the future now? You KNOW what would have happened? I wish I had your powers!

You don't need 'powers' to see how a man runs his business.

I guess you'd rather we just kept on borrowing to pay for these things that CAN'T be paid for by individuals? Why do you want to go deeper and deeper into debt as a nation to subsidize these things? If we CAN'T afford them...then we can't and we GO WITHOUT! We don't borrow more and more every year to provide things we can't afford.

You mean we can't afford those tax cuts for the wealthy, two wars, a new Medicare entitlement (that got a president reelected) and trickle up economics? I agree, joe. Formulas like these can bust any economy.

Maybe that guy that gave everything back to the top had an agenda? You know, entitlement reform? You know, the guy that claimed a mandate and said he was going to spend it, (as if he knew how to do anything else) giving back the trust fund as tax cuts, then saying we didn't have money for SS? The guy that toured the country three times to push his privatization plan, 'put your retirement in the stock market'? The same market that tanked 40% during his watch?

The states spend too much too...they need to cut back too. Why is that a problem? If you can't afford something...you DON'T borrow to get it anyway...you go without or you save for it.

The whole country is doing this...we're paying off one loan by taking out another...how can anyone agree this is good? It's TIME to cut back!

You guys aren't that good at economics. Haven't returned a single surplus in 5 decades. I know you have to ignore math, kinda like Reagan and facts. Poor guy, hated facts. But I'll give Reagan credit for knowing simple math. The guy that said government was the problem raised taxes 11 times! But that just pushed the income disparity closer to 1929.

You couldn't care less over deficits so long as money floats to the top.

All that cash they're sitting on is GOVERNMENT money! That's where some of those trillions we borrowed went. Business would be in the toilet now if it wasn't for FREE government money...TAKEN from the taxpayers and GIVEN to the corporations. They don't have cash from PROFITS! Government money is ALL that is keeping the economy going!

Tarp money was given to lenders, not business across the board.

You're right...I'm TIRED of vainly trying to raise ALL the boats...some aren't worth the trouble...and we're wasting our time. Raise the boats that are WORTH the effort to raise!

You're right. Conservative lawmakers can't raise the economic tide. But they sure can take wholesale revenues from all of us and give it back to the top. Even if they have to use reconciliation.

The governments job isn't to GIVE everyone a certain standard of living. That's the individuals job.

Thata boy, joe. Your entire post is nothing but soundbites.

 

[NOKUY]

ahhhhhh.....another opportunity to post a lil documentary about my hero "Heimo Korth"

......a man that is totally self sufficient, and raised his kids right in the middle of ANWR.

....never mooched a penny off of the gov. or anyone.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIzrw0jsAJw

 

[joeuser]

You don't need 'powers' to see how a man runs his business.

You mean we can't afford those tax cuts for the wealthy, two wars, a new Medicare entitlement (that got a president reelected) and trickle up economics? I agree, joe. Formulas like these can bust any economy.

Maybe that guy that gave everything back to the top had an agenda? You know, entitlement reform? You know, the guy that claimed a mandate and said he was going to spend it, (as if he knew how to do anything else) giving back the trust fund as tax cuts, then saying we didn't have money for SS? The guy that toured the country three times to push his privatization plan, 'put your retirement in the stock market'? The same market that tanked 40% during his watch?

You guys aren't that good at economics. Haven't returned a single surplus in 5 decades. I know you have to ignore math, kinda like Reagan and facts. Poor guy, hated facts. But I'll give Reagan credit for knowing simple math. The guy that said government was the problem raised taxes 11 times! But that just pushed the income disparity closer to 1929.

You couldn't care less over deficits so long as money floats to the top.

Tarp money was given to lenders, not business across the board.

You're right. Conservative lawmakers can't raise the economic tide. But they sure can take wholesale revenues from all of us and give it back to the top. Even if they have to use reconciliation.

Thata boy, joe. Your entire post is nothing but soundbites.

Wait a minute...who is "your guy"? Why do you keep saying "your guy did this...your guy did that"? I don't HAVE a guy in the race. My guy in THIS discussion was Perot...he never had a chance. My pick never gets more than 5% of the vote...because 95% of the country are "idiot voters" who are convince ANY vote NOT for a Dem or Rep is a WASTED vote.

Would I be wrong to guess that YOU have never voted for a third party? I don't think you have the vision.

You talk as though I approve of the things you are saying...nice way to twist it around... Everything you mention I hate! It's ALL wrong. I've been against ALL the mainstream presidents! I haven't voted for ANY Dem/Rep since I can remember...since 76? They're ALL crooked...that's the part you can't seem to fathom! Yes, even your beloved democratic party is corrupt!

Bush worked for Cheney...Cheney raped the public with energy and wars. I know that. Clinton was the "bubble man", he had stocks AND housing bubbles. They ALL fuck us for their and their friends gain...so STOP voting for them!

We're broke...we have billions in debt that needs to be created/rolled over every week...there aren't any buyers! China quit buying our bonds...Japan quit buying our bonds, Europe can't afford them (though they STILL do, proving what a farce the whole system really is!). The biggest buyer of them is our own government! Why do you think China was screaming about currency manipulation? We were "lending" banks at 0%, money to buy bonds that were bought back a week later. Ever hear of check kiting? Same thing...just more zeros!

The whole system is fucked up. The banks and big business own the lawmakers and the judges. Lawyers have their hands in everything sucking as parasites.

I want them ALL sent home and all new players next season. Honorable, honest, pragmatic players...not bought off whores.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

ahhhhhh.....another opportunity to post a lil documentary about my hero "Heimo Korth"

......a man that is totally self sufficient, and raised his kids right in the middle of ANWR.

....never mooched a penny off of the gov. or anyone.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIzrw0jsAJw

I think the folks in America pay for their entitlements. There's a few clowns that substantially shift revenues but "mooched" doesn't really apply here. It's called trickle-down and we've got the data that shows where revenues wax, wane and bust.

Let's say you're a business tycoon. You have a Manhattan office building slap full of accountants. You divide your accountants into teams A and B.

Team A isn't your favorite bunch of guys but they know how to count beans. Team A collects your revenues, pays your bills and reports your net incomes and losses accordingly.

Team B doesn't play this game. Team B isn't interested in your sound conglomerate as much as wanting your flagship enterprise to shine like new. They still collect revenues but rather than pay all the bills, they sequester the largest portion for your flagship company. Forget legal implications as these guys know how to 'reconcile' budgets.

Team B knows they only have relatively fleeting opportunities to transfer your companies' money to flagship and pencil the books accordingly. Team B knows Team A will be back with the original game plan.

So Team B spends all your conglomerate's money ahead of time, actually hurting your collective business-economy in the process. Team B tells you the non-flagship businesses don't have the money to pay corporate bills but you know in the back of your head they stopped allocations decades ago.

Not only is Team B not paying your bills and artificially propping up your flagship, they steal your American Express card and start two unfunded wars, enact an expensive entitlement, (aka marketing strategy) and give back your gross revenues to your customers. Something about you needing to tighten your belt and all that.

After 30 years, you begin to reflect on both accounting teams successes and pitfalls. Team A didn't necessarily have that executive swagger but they knew what they were doing. Instead of allowing some of your divisions to wither, artificially inflating your flagship, your conglomerate grew as a whole.

Reflecting on Team B gives a different feeling entirely. At times, it's hard to distinguish their motive. After all, they're working for you. But they have ulterior actions too apparent to shrug off.

There's at least one thing too blistering to shrug, (or allow to waft in the confines of far conscientiousness.) You know like the back of your hand that Team B never filed a profitable book. Inflating/deflating your flagship to the point it exploded, imploded and almost waxed the global economy never produced the first sustained, black line.

In fact, it's all loss when considering the flagship never had more than a percentage of your conglomerate's worth.

You no longer scratch your nog when Team B screams "fiscal responsibility!" as Team A attempts to right the flagship and yes your conglomerate as well.

Alas, you have a thing for red ties and thus 30 years of voodoo economics. It's getting to the point that Team A can no longer fix Team B's accounting blunders. That old idea the rest of your conglomerate is just ineffective waste now seems inevitable. Never mind the simply history your Team A books reveal... your flagship was never the "permanent majority" promised by your illustrious Team B. Your flagship suffered the worst of the worst economic turmoil. It was really the conglomerate itself that diversified and stabilized gains and losses into low risk, long term stability. Not to mention it was Team A's accountants that proved it.

Isn't history a nice little reminder? You're no longer the conglomerate tycoon, nor do you have the power that comes with it. But laying off all those workers and selling off all those assets made you rich beyond the greed only tomorrow promises more of. You'll no longer have to wear the same, red tie twice.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Wait a minute...who is "your guy"? Why do you keep saying "your guy did this...your guy did that"? I don't HAVE a guy in the race.

Lets get you back on track. "That guy" refers to a former president and points no fingers at you. "You guys" refers to folks that have unspoken arguments when it comes to macro economics vs greed. These folks don't look at statistics because they're not interested in rising tides, only a few select boats rise in this theory.

And yes, "you guys" includes you. But not in the sense you're in the top 2% who actually stand to gain from trickle up economics.

My guy in THIS discussion was Perot...he never had a chance. My pick never gets more than 5% of the vote...because 95% of the country are "idiot voters" who are convince ANY vote NOT for a Dem or Rep is a WASTED vote.

Perot's not a lawmaker. He used laws to lay people off, sell assets and make EDS as powerful a government contractor as possible. Corporate titans don't care who they hurt as long as they don't have to look at them.

Would I be wrong to guess that YOU have never voted for a third party? I don't think you have the vision.

Talk about vision.

You talk as though I approve of the things you are saying...nice way to twist it around... Everything you mention I hate! It's ALL wrong. I've been against ALL the mainstream presidents! I haven't voted for ANY Dem/Rep since I can remember...since 76? They're ALL crooked...that's the part you can't seem to fathom! Yes, even your beloved democratic party is corrupt!

Ah, perfecting the gibberish. With reasoning like that, you can't see the wheat for the chaff. Not to mention your economic formula is the same as the stripe you apparently diss.

Bush worked for Cheney...Cheney raped the public with energy and wars. I know that. Clinton was the "bubble man", he had stocks AND housing bubbles. They ALL fuck us for their and their friends gain...so STOP voting for them!

you needs a time line

We're broke...we have billions in debt that needs to be created/rolled over every week...there aren't any buyers! China quit buying our bonds...Japan quit buying our bonds, Europe can't afford them (though they STILL do, proving what a farce the whole system really is!). The biggest buyer of them is our own government! Why do you think China was screaming about currency manipulation?

Do you flip every fact on it's ear? The whole word knows China manipulates it's currency. You're getting your economic aspects twisted.

We were "lending" banks at 0%, money to buy bonds that were bought back a week later. Ever hear of check kiting? Same thing...just more zeros!

The whole system is fucked up. The banks and big business own the lawmakers and the judges. Lawyers have their hands in everything sucking as parasites.

I want them ALL sent home and all new players next season. Honorable, honest, pragmatic players...not bought off whores.

I thought you were just talking Perot?

Here's a tip. The next time your car breaks down, don't push it off the cliff. Fix what's broke, you'll save more money than buying new cars by the fleet.

History is your biggest detractor. We've only had a few centuries of economic direction. Yours didn't perform so well.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Top down fraud is usually income tax fraud...not giving to the government what the GOVERNMENT says you should pay. Bottom up fraud is usually receiving things that you do not deserve...theft. I don't see how you can relate the two.

You're comparing using an expired coupon with shoplifting.

You're reasoning technicolor aspects into black and white to make narrow points.

If it WAS just a band aid I would be fine with it...but it's a CAREER to many women.

Many... relative to your point of view. Forget statistics, a frame of mind says

They live free and clear and "party for money". Most skanky whores are single welfare mothers. Our current system REWARDS this behavior! All their bills are paid for...and for spending money, they prostitute. Or just party for sex. On our dime! There are millions of them!

You know, if they were smoking reefers... now that would be the last straw. What substantiates your judgements, joe? Got any statistics that back up a point of view?

End ALL political contributions if you want a fair system.

Only rich people (who could finance campaigns from their own pockets) would run for office. Not sure that would represent the people any better than the status quot. In fact, I'm relatively certain it wouldn't. Our founding fathers restricted lawmaking to rich white men but that doesn't address macro economics very well.

IMO, individuals should have a hard limit for respective candidates and a soft limit for political party... that's it. Example $2300 per candidate and $10,000 per party. No corporate donations, no 527 groups and especially no anonymous doners. The house is actually convening only two weeks a month for christ sakes. 50% of their salary pays them to campaign for the next session.

End ALL lobbying if you want a fair system.

Wouldn't that be a bit like taxation w/o representation? We'll always have special interests (including yours and mine) that aren't necessarily in the public interest. That's where our lawmakers have to be responsible enough to give you and I what we need w/o negating the public interest in the process.

End itemized deductions.

Some deductions actually generate economic growth. I wouldn't care if a fat cat explodes as long as he's spurring the economy. Problem is, too much wealth disparity slows economic growth and fat cats sit on their collective laurel. But you don't have to take my word for it. Our relatively-short history of economics is a barometer of economic performance. We're headed for depression unless we end supply side economic practices.

 

[HempKat]

McConnell wasn't lying when he said the number one goal of Republicans is to make sure the president doesn't get a second term.

Hopefully the public will take things much further then the Republicans are hoping for. Me personally I'm going to encourage everyone I talk to, to vote their incombant representatives out of office. Sure it'll be a mess for a while with all new people but the only shot we have at changing the system now is to take every sitting representative out of office. Even then it's no guarentee but it's a hell of alot better then 4 more years spent trying to undo the previous administrations work and congress blocking even that from happening effectively. Yet while nothing truely gets done to improve the quality of life for the people footing the bill, trillions of dollars are finding their way into the pockets of a few. You know the same hypocrites that whine about robbing the rich to help the poor. They'll gladly take all the benefits and tax cuts/rebates the government hands out and even fight for their right to keep them beyond the period of time they were intended to be given. Let them get one wiff of some poor person getting help from the government though and suddenly the government is trying to transfer wealth

Seriously though, our only shot is to keep putting in new people so the corporations have to go thru the time and expense of corrupting each and every one of them and maybe we can slow things down enough to put the country and it's government back in good working order? This tendency we've had to allow people to stay in office term after term has to stop, it only benefits the corrupting forces. If we can't get the government to enforce mandatory term limits on our representatives then we need to enforce it ourselves. It's really the only power "We The People" have left.

 

[HempKat]

Like said, you make a convincing emotional argument. Typical guilt trip emotional argument. And that's good that you want to help needy people. In doing so you will eventually bankrupt your country because the politicians will promise each generation more and more and eventually will not be able to pay. And then all these entitlements that people have gotten use to will start getting cut and be taken away and nobody will get anything. Look at Greece. A socialist dream. Bankrupt and on the verge of collapse. And so will we be soon. Spain, Italy, and Portugal are right behind. And unfortunately you can't blame that on the Republicans.

Entitlements may make you feel warm and fuzzy and there are certainly some people who need assistance, but it will always get out of hand and they will always be taken away because the state coffers will be emptied as politicians buy votes with freebies.

I'm making a logical fiscal argument for long term viability of the state. You are making a short term emotional guilt trip based argument. I may make you sick, but in the long term you are doing the poor and needy a disservice and history proves me right.

You make a convincing argument about what the government might do (keep offering more and more freebies) but I think it's missplaced to say it's all going to the poor. I have family that fall among the poor and I'll spare you their individual sob stories but thru knowing them, what they've been thru and what they've gotten it's consistently been not very much. I also have a number of elderly family on Social Security and knowing them and their situations I can tell you that the meager cost of living adjustments have always been offset by almost matching increases in Medicare premium deductions. So if anyone is getting rich off either of these systems or living the good life because of them, it sure as hell isn't the recipients. Rather it's the insurance companies that offer Medicare Alternative Plans. Billions every year were getting drained by what were called "Medicare Advantage Plans" Enough that it was expected the savings could pay for almost 50% of Obama's Healthcare plan over 10 years. What did the public get though, most of them got one of the millions of dollars worth of ads telling people Obama was trying to take Billions worth of benefits from the Elderly and Disabled. Now somehow suddenly the current administration is supposedly trying to give out too much money to the elderly and the poor and disabled?

It's not the poor, it's not the elderly, it's not the disabled. It's big corporations that get billions in tax breaks on the record breaking profits they earn year after year. Breaks that were given at a time when they represented alot less loss in revenue to the country and when the companies truely needed the breaks. Now when we try to simply undo what was supposed to be temporary it's treated as a tax increase and if we try too hard to enforce it the corporations just shift their operations to a more tax friendly country for their headquarters. Like Haliburton did right after the public got Congress to kill the Dubai Port Authority deal.

These breaks these companies get total in the hundreds of Billions in lost revenue, they're essentially bleeding the government dry far more then Social Security and Medicare. Add to that a Military Industrial Complex that gets hundreds of billions year after year and yet when we sent our troops into Iraq families had to pay for their soldiers armor and other equipment, otherwise that soldier went over there without. How is it possible to have a military that's given this much money and not every single soldier is given what he needs to do his job the day he completes training?

This Elderly, Poor, Disabled thing is smoke and mirrors. It's the only way the corporations can kick the can down the road a few more years. Get them going after the poor and elderly so they can keep sucking the government dry a few more years. It'll all fall apart when we cut social security and welfare because you know what's good about that money? The people that get it spend every dollar of it right back into the local economies, they don't have the luxury of just sitting on their assets like the Corporations are doing with the welfare they got from the Government.

 

[dddaver]

IMO, low level fraud is easier to enforce, the perps don't have high priced lawyers. They popped Rick Scott though, $1.7 billion fine... makes you wonder how much he actually stole.

Dude, that's the HONORABLE Rick Scott, our beloved governor. I find it SO ironic that this crook (drug company pawn) instituted drug testing for all welfare recipients. Then they say they want to cut the budget but do this? This is just nuts. Who is supposed to pay for this? Just absolutely nuts. I have absolutely no faith that we'll get MMJ anytime while those clucks run things.

 

[HempKat]

We used to call these folks robber barons, charging exorbitant profits for dire need. You really need to brush up on economics and how monumental services are provided far cheaper than private business.

Now we call them Doctors, Lawyers, Universities, Hospitals, to name a few.

 

[HempKat]

I don't argue this subject from a personal standpoint. I'd like to see more employment, the kind that's sustainable and carries benefits for the people that make their businesses profitable. And since business is sitting on more cash than the history of our country, they could do a little more of what business does. You know? Innovate and manufacture.

Nah, not until they get the scapegoat out of office, otherwise people might give him the credit since he gave the businesses much of the money they're sitting on, and re-elect him. You can't have the scapegoat getting re-elected, that just wouldn't look right.

 

[HempKat]

Was just at the grocery store, sure enough I was behind someone paying with an assistance card...she had to put her iPhone4 down to dig gingerly through her Gucci bag, she didn't want to break her freshly manicured nails...she had less than 15 items, but paid for those items with no less than 4 separate transactions...bagged separately of course.

I happened to see her in the parking lot...nice Infinity...

I think the people getting on their soapboxes about this issue are conflating use with abuse.

And yes, I think we (the taxpayers) should have a say so in what constitutes each

The problem is these type of people, if they even really exist are the exception and not the rule and if they have all those things and still can qualify for welfare then they're either commiting fraud on far more then just welfare and food stamps or they're drug dealers. Personally I don't believe they're out there. The fraud cases I see are the street people who are truely poor and qualify that sell their food stamps 50 cents on the dollar to go buy some MadDog or a case of Red Bull. The problem there is I'm not sure who's worse, the street person trying to get drunk or the average citizen how will gladly cheat him and the system out of half his benefits. I've never seen a welfare recipent in anything better then a car that probably shouldn't be on the road. Most I see on public transit though because they don't have cars. Yet somehow, everytime this discussion pops up, there's always someone who just saw a stereotypical welfare Queen blatently flaunting her fraud. Amazingly it's always the people taking the anti welfare stance that see's these people.

 

[HempKat]

I agree. We need all views to work out the toughest problems.

IMO, we'd go a long way toward progress by working out the guest worker program/ illegal aliens, whatever they're being called these days.

All the multinationals based and selling product in the US ought to have at least one manufacturing plant in the states. Decent trade deals with Japanese automakers received manufacturing plants in the US.

IMO, the US screwed us when they allowed South Korea to export cars to our market w/o having to make some of their cars here. They're very nice cars and we need jobs. Let's get a lil' of each.

They do, KIA is a South Korean company and they manufacture at least the KIA Sorento (Popular SUV type vehicle) here in the US. Maybe other models too, in one of the Carolinas I believe?

 

[HempKat]

Most skanky whores are single welfare mothers. Our current system REWARDS this behavior! All their bills are paid for...and for spending money, they prostitute. Or just party for sex. On our dime! There are millions of them!

Wow, just wow. When I think you couldn't be any more out of touch with reality you go and prove me wrong. So where are your facts? Did you personally bang a few million of these prostitutes?

 

[HempKat]

I want them ALL sent home and all new players next season. Honorable, honest, pragmatic players...not bought off whores.

Now you're talking but just remember they all become bought off whores to one degree or another, if for no other reason then to try and accomplish what they feel is for the greater good, if they fight it to hard they accomplish nothing and get voted out. That's how corruption sets in though, first you do it because you think you have to and that makes it easier for the next time and so on. By the time they wake up if they ever do, the people that bought them have them by the balls and will destroy them if they don't play along.

The secret isn't just to get new people but keep getting new people. Let nobody stay in office for more then two terms.

 

[supermanlives]

i like whores

 

[Cojito]

Clinton did "creative accounting" for his "surplus"...

naw, he had two years of a legit surplus.

Clinton was also responsible for the crash of 1999...was he not? It was HIS policies through the 1990s that led to it.

you tell me. all i remember is tech stocks bubbling out.

Be fair at least occasionally!

hey, i listed a couple of Clinton negatives: oval office fellatio and raising taxes. but its not about Clinton, no one guy is gonna make you happy. everyone's flawed. i was only highlighting the profound differences in economic policies between republicans and democrats.

 

[Cojito]

We're headed for depression unless we end supply side economic practices.

 

[paladin420]

i like whores

Hey I'm with SMan!! Anybody who thinks whores are"people that do nothin" can just go fuck themselves...

 

[joeuser]

Hopefully the public will take things much further then the Republicans are hoping for. Me personally I'm going to encourage everyone I talk to, to vote their incombant representatives out of office. Sure it'll be a mess for a while with all new people but the only shot we have at changing the system now is to take every sitting representative out of office. Even then it's no guarentee but it's a hell of alot better then 4 more years spent trying to undo the previous administrations work and congress blocking even that from happening effectively. Yet while nothing truely gets done to improve the quality of life for the people footing the bill, trillions of dollars are finding their way into the pockets of a few. You know the same hypocrites that whine about robbing the rich to help the poor. They'll gladly take all the benefits and tax cuts/rebates the government hands out and even fight for their right to keep them beyond the period of time they were intended to be given. Let them get one wiff of some poor person getting help from the government though and suddenly the government is trying to transfer wealth

Seriously though, our only shot is to keep putting in new people so the corporations have to go thru the time and expense of corrupting each and every one of them and maybe we can slow things down enough to put the country and it's government back in good working order? This tendency we've had to allow people to stay in office term after term has to stop, it only benefits the corrupting forces. If we can't get the government to enforce mandatory term limits on our representatives then we need to enforce it ourselves. It's really the only power "We The People" have left.

You also MUST tell them to NOT vote for a Dem or a Rep...because BOTH sides are crooked! They MUST vote in an independent or a 3rd party! Otherwise NOTHING will change. It's the PARTY that is evil!

you have it backwards...they're ALREADY corrupt BEFORE they get elected. The ONLY way you CAN get elected is with corporate help...money. You have to be ALREADY on their payroll before you have ANY chance of getting on the ballot!!!

You want a REAL solution? Eliminate the two parties...right now THEY run the government. NO campaign finance at ALL...ONLY public money is spend...NO political donations at all! Not ONE PENNY goes to ANY elected official...no lunches, no trinkets, nothing. Flat tax...NO deductions at all. You add up income, look up the tax and pay it. If you allow ONE deduction...you'll inevitably get more down the road.

You make a convincing argument about what the government might do (keep offering more and more freebies) but I think it's missplaced to say it's all going to the poor. I have family that fall among the poor and I'll spare you their individual sob stories but thru knowing them, what they've been thru and what they've gotten it's consistently been not very much. I also have a number of elderly family on Social Security and knowing them and their situations I can tell you that the meager cost of living adjustments have always been offset by almost matching increases in Medicare premium deductions. So if anyone is getting rich off either of these systems or living the good life because of them, it sure as hell isn't the recipients. Rather it's the insurance companies that offer Medicare Alternative Plans. Billions every year were getting drained by what were called "Medicare Advantage Plans" Enough that it was expected the savings could pay for almost 50% of Obama's Healthcare plan over 10 years. What did the public get though, most of them got one of the millions of dollars worth of ads telling people Obama was trying to take Billions worth of benefits from the Elderly and Disabled. Now somehow suddenly the current administration is supposedly trying to give out too much money to the elderly and the poor and disabled?

It's not the poor, it's not the elderly, it's not the disabled. It's big corporations that get billions in tax breaks on the record breaking profits they earn year after year. Breaks that were given at a time when they represented alot less loss in revenue to the country and when the companies truely needed the breaks. Now when we try to simply undo what was supposed to be temporary it's treated as a tax increase and if we try too hard to enforce it the corporations just shift their operations to a more tax friendly country for their headquarters. Like Haliburton did right after the public got Congress to kill the Dubai Port Authority deal.

These breaks these companies get total in the hundreds of Billions in lost revenue, they're essentially bleeding the government dry far more then Social Security and Medicare. Add to that a Military Industrial Complex that gets hundreds of billions year after year and yet when we sent our troops into Iraq families had to pay for their soldiers armor and other equipment, otherwise that soldier went over there without. How is it possible to have a military that's given this much money and not every single soldier is given what he needs to do his job the day he completes training?

This Elderly, Poor, Disabled thing is smoke and mirrors. It's the only way the corporations can kick the can down the road a few more years. Get them going after the poor and elderly so they can keep sucking the government dry a few more years. It'll all fall apart when we cut social security and welfare because you know what's good about that money? The people that get it spend every dollar of it right back into the local economies, they don't have the luxury of just sitting on their assets like the Corporations are doing with the welfare they got from the Government.

Of course it doesn't ALL go to the poor...but I don't want ANY going to the poor. Nor do I want ANYTHING going to the corporations. Stop ALL welfare...it's NOT the governments job to house and feed people. It's not the governments job to give money to corporations in need either. Let them fail!

Obama was redirecting money from the elderly TO the poor. Medicare getting cut...medicaid getting more. you can't ADD 20-40 million people to a benefits program without the cost going up or benefits getting cut.

They're NOT making record breaking profits...the fed is GIVING them money so it LOOKS like they're making record breaking profits. It's NOT public money keeping everything going...it's borrowed government money! TARP, POMO. they're all to keep businesses going supposedly until the REAL economy starts chugging again. But it's NOT...because we're already too far in debt.

That's what regulation does. When the government tells them WHO to hire, how much to pay them, blah blah blah...they either try to change the laws through lobbying...or they leave and go somewhere friendlier.

Bullshit! The corporations DO pay taxes...lots of them...MUCH more than that loser sitting home getting high and having kids. and yes...it DOES happen...a LOT! Get out to these slums where the poor live...you'll see for yourself what they really are!

The corporations LOVE that everyone has a certain standard of living through welfare...more money in the hands of idiots who will buy their iCrap. That's why corporations are so keen on continuing welfare...every dollar can potentially come to them as a sale. your snack and shit food manufacturers LOVE the food stamps! They sell a TON of stuff to people using government...taxpayer...money! JP Morgan runs the snap card debit program...they'd like EVERYONE on snap!

Now you're talking but just remember they all become bought off whores to one degree or another, if for no other reason then to try and accomplish what they feel is for the greater good, if they fight it to hard they accomplish nothing and get voted out. That's how corruption sets in though, first you do it because you think you have to and that makes it easier for the next time and so on. By the time they wake up if they ever do, the people that bought them have them by the balls and will destroy them if they don't play along.

The secret isn't just to get new people but keep getting new people. Let nobody stay in office for more then two terms.

No...they START as bought off whores...that's HOW they get elected!