If you actively game the system, rich or poor, you deserve scorn and a few other things IMO.
What to do with people that do nothing??
- Thread starter JOJO420
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Interesting answer, as it's no answer at all. The answer dodges the question and creates it's own argument. Has the appearance that you misinterpreted, possibly ignored the non-directional nature of the post and put me under your specific scrutiny. IMO, the post elementary education you boast is tempered with a somewhat closed perception and a few other things.
fuzzymuffin
Active member
It seems to me that a lot of the new crop of folks coming up think they're somehow "entitled" to just have everything handed to them and aren't really willing to pull their own weight. They're slow, sloppy, arrogant and just expecting everyone to bend to them rather than they pull their own weight and actually earn their keep.
fuzzymuffin
Active member
Nothing wrong with wanting that. The problem is so many aren't willing to work towards that goal. They expect it to just be handed to them, instead. It's as if they think it's some kind of birth-right or something.
I
In~Plain~Site
How clever of them, wasn't it?
That's the bullshit version of the American dream that was sold, and most bought it.You're folks worked hard so that somehow you'd be scott free of the obligation...hahaha...delusional.Who's fault is it? Parents,the 'kids' themselves or is it just the times we live in?
When reality sets in, it's a female dog...that much you can bank on.
All I know is this, the very same cliche'd shit I heard my grandfather say is now coming out of my mouth.
I think we can rule out one item as a root cause in light of that fact alone.
That's the bullshit version of the American dream that was sold, and most bought it.You're folks worked hard so that somehow you'd be scott free of the obligation...hahaha...delusional.Who's fault is it? Parents,the 'kids' themselves or is it just the times we live in?
When reality sets in, it's a female dog...that much you can bank on.
All I know is this, the very same cliche'd shit I heard my grandfather say is now coming out of my mouth.
I think we can rule out one item as a root cause in light of that fact alone.
I have an Uncle who is an ex-Amaco Petroleum engineer. He got a golden parachute after they were bought out by BP. He is ~61 and still working. Huge house in an exclusive Houston suburb. The Mercedes Benz and Suburban for the wife. Invested heavily into the stock market by the few million.
This guy adopted a girl 18 years ago. She is spoiled beyond anything you've ever seen. Morbidly obese and now with a morbidly obese child of her own and doesn't work. Gets fired, kicked out, or quits every school or job she's had. She's been arrested several times and tried to push my aunt down the stairs once. She is a terror and it's just getting started. He gives her money and she will never work a day in her life. This is where it gets good.
She get's Pell Grants in the form of credit cards. My uncle has gotten her on food stamps and every other form of government assistance he can find. He is quite proud of "getting his" as he likes to say. He says he could care less about how he leaves this country to his daughter. I have to go to family functions and pretend to like this POS while I really want to knock his teeth out. Although last time I basically did call him disgusting. I certainly have a closed perception on things of this manner. That's stealing and it's wrong. Entitlements are an emotional argument IMO not a logical one because of the fiscal long haul eventualities stemming from the corrupt nature of mankind as a collective. It sounds good to help people, but in the long run it does the poor and middle class a disservice. The poor get poorer the more dependent we become.
Non-directional yes, but I was "scorning" so applicable. Do you think you wouldn't had posted that if we had been scorning the big banks? I'm not targeting you or anything. I thought that was an interesting question.
The way I see it is fraud is fraud. The rules (and their should be rules ie regulations) should govern all equally. I look around now and fraud is governing everything. It is all pervasive.
EDIT: I do understand that he is the exception rather than the rule. I'm just saying that the potential is there and the result leads to fiscal bankruptcy because we always promise more than we can pay for in the long term.
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Forced state labor? I dunno man. Kind of creeps me out.
Gramps, I'd consider your experienced perception rather open. I might not feel the same way if you applied it as a model to assistance recipients in general. Fraud is stealing yet a system we pay into and qualify is legal and logical, however unfortunate.
I accept that you didn't direct personal scorn at me. I still feel a little susceptible from the impression my point of view might receive the same scrutiny as folks actually on da welfare.
I remember a gentleman describing his personal experience with assistance and he didn't venture an opinion whether it was good or bad. I can only wonder if their was conflict of ideals. But there was one unspoken impression I gathered that was little more apparent. The gentleman didn't like assistance or being on the roles enough to make a living of it. He's apparently employed and doing quite well. I wish him all the best.
Similar thing happened to me, was laid-off in a leveraged buyout in 1992. There were a few offers to go to Dallas but I passed and drew unemployment for ~90 days and found a job that didn't require an additional job, just to pay bills. I didn't ask myself about the moral implications because I've worked the majority of my life and paid into the same system that assisted others. Didn't ride assistance for what then amounted to 6 months, so long as I fulfilled the obligations. My financial incentive was to go back to work and draw a far better salary than assistance provides.
There's fraud in every opportunity. But there's people like me and the other fella I spoke of that had little choice but to persevere in order to get back to work. In these cases, it's often a matter of several part-time jobs or the opportunity to find more stable full time work. Not to mention how heath issues can complicate the whole thing.
I accept that you didn't direct personal scorn at me. I still feel a little susceptible from the impression my point of view might receive the same scrutiny as folks actually on da welfare.
I remember a gentleman describing his personal experience with assistance and he didn't venture an opinion whether it was good or bad. I can only wonder if their was conflict of ideals. But there was one unspoken impression I gathered that was little more apparent. The gentleman didn't like assistance or being on the roles enough to make a living of it. He's apparently employed and doing quite well. I wish him all the best.
Similar thing happened to me, was laid-off in a leveraged buyout in 1992. There were a few offers to go to Dallas but I passed and drew unemployment for ~90 days and found a job that didn't require an additional job, just to pay bills. I didn't ask myself about the moral implications because I've worked the majority of my life and paid into the same system that assisted others. Didn't ride assistance for what then amounted to 6 months, so long as I fulfilled the obligations. My financial incentive was to go back to work and draw a far better salary than assistance provides.
There's fraud in every opportunity. But there's people like me and the other fella I spoke of that had little choice but to persevere in order to get back to work. In these cases, it's often a matter of several part-time jobs or the opportunity to find more stable full time work. Not to mention how heath issues can complicate the whole thing.
Really, those that whine about what others are or aren't doing are the scum, not those they look down on. You are behaving like little kids, I have the best toys and want more, and I want to take yours as well. And those who don't care about being in constant competition for money and power are not good enough to live in your opinion? In my opinion, you are the ones that don't deserve to live, you selfish assholes!
What did they try to teach you when you are a kid. Share, not hoard. Everyone is equal, not I am better than you since I have more toys. Some of us grownups don't care about all that childish nonsense, but actually care about how our actions effect the planet and our fellow man. Social Security, and especially the military are far greater money drains than welfare; corporate welfare is a far bigger drain than the poor, and again no one seems to complain about that drain. I don't hear anyone arguing these are not worth paying for and must be cut out! I am not money oriented as they say, and I am proud of it, there is far more to life and living than that. The richest are often the most miserable and miss the point of life entirely. If I came into money, I would spread most of it around.
What did they try to teach you when you are a kid. Share, not hoard. Everyone is equal, not I am better than you since I have more toys. Some of us grownups don't care about all that childish nonsense, but actually care about how our actions effect the planet and our fellow man. Social Security, and especially the military are far greater money drains than welfare; corporate welfare is a far bigger drain than the poor, and again no one seems to complain about that drain. I don't hear anyone arguing these are not worth paying for and must be cut out! I am not money oriented as they say, and I am proud of it, there is far more to life and living than that. The richest are often the most miserable and miss the point of life entirely. If I came into money, I would spread most of it around.
B
BrnCow
Steer clear of people that cannot keep their word - at least most of the time...your word is your bond...
It's not forced, you're getting paid and if you don't want to do it you don't have to but then you have to accept you get nothing because you're doing nothing. Most people that are desperate for food and/or money are willing to do work in exchange. You could even incentivize it a little by giving them an option to do more work for a bigger benefit. I've seen this system work before, in this one county you could get a couple of hundred one time but only if you were ineligable for unemployment. Now if you did nothing then that was it. If however you did one 26 hour week of work then you could get the benefit again the next month. If you opted to do a 40 hour week you got like an extra $150. Worked pretty good from what I remember and there wasn't much if any abuse.
C
COOKIE MONSTER
That if I wanted pocket money I had to do chores to earn it and if I wanted a new bicycle or some toy I had to go cut lawns and clear yards ect.
And forced state theft from me, to give to someone else isn't?
I'll tell you what...you let me KEEP everything I make by my labor...stop robbing from me and giving it to someone else...THEN I'll be quiet. Is that a deal?
I also take exception to your comment that "nobody is mentioning corporate welfare"...I and others here have been complaining about it since the beginning.
I learned to share as a kid too...then I grew up and noticed that some people just take...I stopped wanting to share with them.
Social security is a bigger DRAIN than welfare? Really? When one PAID for their benefits and the other didn't? I'll ask you what I asked others...if you paid your car insurance or health insurance for years and years...and then something comes up, an accident, and you need the money...would you feel that money was an "entitlement" to you? What about the guy who got into the SAME accident but didn't have any insurance he had been paying for? Should you BOTH get treated the same? Should you get treated first if there's only enough to treat one of you?
Social security is an insurance program...welfare is a GIFT. The problem is...all the past premium payments we made to SS have been spent by politicians on OTHER things and now they're saying there's no way to pay it back. So "fuck you". Are you going to let them get away with that?
G
grozzef
i just don't understand how tptb pull the wool over your eyes so much that you can't see you're arguing about the smallest fish in a ocean full of whales and monsters. who gives two shits about the money given to people on welfare, it's nothing comparatively. this is just the florida welfare drug test thread all over again.
budlover123
Member
Who is stealing from you? Again, it's a matter of perception. It's easy to perceive the poor people on welfare as a drain on the economy, just out of curiosity, how many people of these "robbers" have you met yourself, and I'm not talking about someone you think might be abusing the system, I'm talking someone who came out and told you they could work if they wanted, they just don't want to. It's largely fiction, many people are (or society is) too embarrassed or ignorant to address the issue .
Probably just as much rich folks abusing the system as it's in their nature, like SpasticGramps' uncle (read the first line of my signature re: that thought)
about 98% of the wealth belongs to about 2% of the population, we are basically fighting over the little bit of money they allow us to have, but somehow the poor are the problem!?
Go read the Secret Banking cartel thread, the stock traders thread, and the Signs.... thread. You only see what you want to see. I've laid out that argument much more so than this shit countless times. There is a thread here. People are going to comment on it.
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im usually working my ass off wishing that i was "doing nothing"
...and when it looks like im doing "nothing", my mind is in overdrive (most things u use were designed by ppl who usually look like they are doing nothing)
.........to the OP ....better worry about yourself than what other ppl are doing/not doing (unless itz your job)
...and when it looks like im doing "nothing", my mind is in overdrive (most things u use were designed by ppl who usually look like they are doing nothing)
.........to the OP ....better worry about yourself than what other ppl are doing/not doing (unless itz your job)
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Speaking of people doing nothing... two weeks off every month just to figure out how to say no to debt reduction negotiations.
McConnell wasn't lying when he said the number one goal of Republicans is to make sure the president doesn't get a second term.
Republicans recently offered a spending reduction plan consisting of 85% cuts and 15% revenue increases. The vice president countered with 83%/17%.
The Republicans initial offer was 100% of what they wanted. The vice president offers 98% in return. No bullshit. Great, we have an opposition that recognizes compromise might render gains by half. VP offers +98%... no actual tax increases, just closing corporate loopholes. Maybe we'll finally get something done?
Wrong. Republicans pulled 85/15 off the table and now demand 100% spending cuts and 0% revenue increases.
Simply allowing the tax cuts to expire on the top 2% would net 1 to 1.4t every year.
McConnell wasn't lying when he said the number one goal of Republicans is to make sure the president doesn't get a second term.
Republicans recently offered a spending reduction plan consisting of 85% cuts and 15% revenue increases. The vice president countered with 83%/17%.
The Republicans initial offer was 100% of what they wanted. The vice president offers 98% in return. No bullshit. Great, we have an opposition that recognizes compromise might render gains by half. VP offers +98%... no actual tax increases, just closing corporate loopholes. Maybe we'll finally get something done?
Wrong. Republicans pulled 85/15 off the table and now demand 100% spending cuts and 0% revenue increases.
Simply allowing the tax cuts to expire on the top 2% would net 1 to 1.4t every year.
I
In~Plain~Site
Come on, DB...you know this isn't a one-sided affair...
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