hash oil made with supercritical co2 extraction

[Vector Mung]

Sir, are you a student of Hume(1)? Perhaps then of Thales(2). Dry ice is solid CO2 which sublimates at and below room temperature, changing phase directly from solid to gas with no liquid intermediary.

(1) British empiricist, believer that knowledge derived from experience
(2) Ancient Greek pre-Socratic philosopher who decided that everything could be explained by saying it was fundamentally water

 

[Gray Wolf]

Sir, are you a student of Hume(1)? Perhaps then of Thales(2). Dry ice is solid CO2 which sublimates at and below room temperature, changing phase directly from solid to gas with no liquid intermediary.

(1) British empiricist, believer that knowledge derived from experience
(2) Ancient Greek pre-Socratic philosopher who decided that everything could be explained by saying it was fundamentally water

Tis true. How does that relate to super critical fluid extraction at under super critical conditions?

 

[Vector Mung]

Tis true. How does that relate to super critical fluid extraction at under super critical conditions?

Cuz this is incorrect.

...Liquid C02 at atmospheric pressure, is known as dry ice...

If you want me to address supercritical fluid extraction then stop necessitating my corrections then asking me why I'm talking off topic.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Cuz this is incorrect.

If you want me to address supercritical fluid extraction then stop necessitating my corrections then asking me why I'm talking off topic.

I believe it is correct brother VM. You can't keep C02 liquid at atmospheric pressure and ambient temperatures.

If you release the pressure on a container of liquid C02 at ambient, it will instantly freeze solid and then sublimate off as a gas.

So far you haven't addressed super critical fluid extraction at less than super critical conditions.

Are you able to, or will you continue to cast aspersions instead?

I am off to vacation in a few hours, so I look forward to being enlightened by your full process description upon my return.

Good luck!

 

[Vector Mung]

Go ahead and run away on vacation to avoid admitting that dry ice is CO2 at atmospheric pressure and -78 C, not liquid CO2 under pressure as you claim. Show me where I did not state that I only care about talking to foaf about pressure vessels. Also, explain how pressure vessels are unrelated to CO2 extraction. Also, keep trying to convince people that you were right about CO2 saturating into a compressed liquid at 75 PSI. Do you still maintain that that pressure is not off by a factor of MORE than 10? Given such a display of willfully intransigent ignorance, why would I explain more advanced concepts after simple ones are refuted by troll physics?

Need I remind anyone of what happens when you let people troll your secrets out of you?

(pic edited by moderation)

 

[Mr. Mountain]

As a Metrologist I know a little something about gas pressure. REALLY high Pressure is required for a CO2 extraction (think thousands of PSI, not hundreds) Pneumatic pressures that high are literally like a bomb, and can fail with spectacular results (depending on your point of view.)

I have worked with pressures over 50,000 PSI. Trust me it takes VERY expensive SPECIALIZED equipment that the average person would have a hard time getting ahold of (unless you plan to start a perfume/essential oil factory) Or a calibration lab!


Gas (pneumatic) pressure is no joke, it is NOTHING like hydraulic pressure. It stores energy (like a spring) because it can be compressed. Hydraulic fluids are "incompressible" and don't store energy in the same way as gasses do!

Put it this way, in the Navy aircraft tire inflation gauges are all calibrated devices, now.

The air pressure in the tire is adjusted based on the weight/load of the aircraft. They are not very high pressure (rarely hundreds of pounds of pressure.) But when the guy gets it wrong, or the gauge is faulty and the tire FAILS the energy is released and the "rim" of the tire can fly at you and kill/maim you.

Before tire inflation kits were calibrated countless servicemen were killed or crippled (imagine having a large piece of Magnesium coming at your legs at a high rate of speed, it'll cut your legs off at the knees. If your lucky.)


When I preform a "high pressure" pneumatic calibration, ALL the work, lines, pressure source, device under test etc, are all behind "bullet proof" panels. At the LEAST we use ballistic shields that stand on the ground with a large lead base weight, they come up to eye level.


Bottom line it is frankly IRRESPONSIBLE for anyone to attempt this at home! It is for pro's only. I have seen Stainless Swagelock line and fittings fail under normal operation. And don't even get me started on brass! Bend the high pressure steel line incorrectly and weaken the tube wall and see what happens!

Accidents with low pressure are bad, let alone "high pressure." I worked with a guy who had a 150PSI pressure gauge "blow up" in his face. The Bourdon tube failed and blew out the glass (and all the glycerine) into his face. He had to be taken to the ER. The only reason he didn't lose an eye is because he was wearing safety glasses!

I saw another guy using a Ruska Gas Piston Gauge (dead weight tester.) He took the weight stack off the top of the piston (The weights counteract the pneumatic pressure applied to the bottom of the piston) without venting the pressure applied to the piston first. Well he was "floating" weights on a piston at over 1K PSI. When he removed the weights, the piston literally shot up out of the cylinder like a bullet and went into the overhead!

It's no joke.

But with CRYOGENIC liquids they can be a REAL nightmare.


I've seen 1 accident involving cryogenic liquids (nitrogen.) Someone was filling a Dewar with Liquid N2 from a large outdoor storage tank. The fill valve became frozen in the "fill" position (it was a very humid day, and the dewar was outside, Ice formed all over the valve... Big mistake) Well, after the Dewar was full and the over pressure safety valves had all opened (or should I say started SCREAMING) it burst a weld on the Dewar and FREEZING liquid/gas JETTED out until the main storage tank could be shut by a brave soul in the correct PPE (personal protective equipment.) Anyone who hadn't cleared the area would have received serious frost bite, and if the liquid/gas is inhaled the lungs can literally freeze and kill you.



DONT TRY THIS OUTSIDE OF A LAB!


I have the necessary experience and training to do this myself and access to some pretty sweet gear, DHI compressor/controllers, Real high pressure (45KPSI) fittings/lines, Platinum RTD's, High pressure transducers etc, and I still won't do it.

PLEASE don't try to "figure it out" with trial and error. You or someone else will get HURT. Do not attempt this method of hashish making without proper training and MOST importantly the RIGHT GEAR!!!



End rant,

Mr. M

 

[Vector Mung]

But you still can't make your own metallic hydrogen. What kind of lines you got, some N***-*w**s? Speak to pressure vessels if you would. Do you have access to sweet things like those. Many people have figured out many methods for extracting many things from many matrices using many levels of pressure and CO2. Gonna start the bidding at 700 PSI.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Given such a display of willfully intransigent ignorance, why would I explain more advanced concepts after simple ones are refuted by troll physics?

Need I remind anyone of what happens when you let people troll your secrets out of you?

Please do remind us, I do not understand.
-SamS

 

[Gray Wolf]

Go ahead and run away on vacation to avoid admitting that dry ice is CO2 at atmospheric pressure and -78 C, not liquid CO2 under pressure as you claim. Show me where I did not state that I only care about talking to foaf about pressure vessels. Also, explain how pressure vessels are unrelated to CO2 extraction. Also, keep trying to convince people that you were right about CO2 saturating into a compressed liquid at 75 PSI. Do you still maintain that that pressure is not off by a factor of MORE than 10? Given such a display of willfully intransigent ignorance, why would I explain more advanced concepts after simple ones are refuted by troll physics?

Need I remind anyone of what happens when you let people troll your secrets out of you?

You seem to read a lot into what I say that is not there.

What I was trying to say is that you have to keep liquid C02 under at least 75psi at ambient to keep it liquid.

Sorry, you gave up the right to pick and select who you talk to when you entered a thread on public forum. If you actually have any facts to offer us great unwashed, I look foward to hearing them on my return.

I maintain that C02 reaches super critical state at 31.1C/88F and 72.9 atmospheres, or about 1071 PSI.

I am saying that 75 Psi is not Super Critical State Extraction.

I have certainly been wrong before. Can you explain where that is a wrong assumption on my part in this matter, so I can stop
making a fool of myself on public forum?

I shall wait with anticipation on my return!

 

[gaiusmarius]

As a Metrologist I know a little something about gas pressure. REALLY high Pressure is required for a CO2 extraction (think thousands of PSI, not hundreds) Pneumatic pressures that high are literally like a bomb, and can fail with spectacular results (depending on your point of view.)

I have worked with pressures over 50,000 PSI. Trust me it takes VERY expensive SPECIALIZED equipment that the average person would have a hard time getting ahold of (unless you plan to start a perfume/essential oil factory) Or a calibration lab!


Gas (pneumatic) pressure is no joke, it is NOTHING like hydraulic pressure. It stores energy (like a spring) because it can be compressed. Hydraulic fluids are "incompressible" and don't store energy in the same way as gasses do!

Put it this way, in the Navy aircraft tire inflation gauges are all calibrated devices, now.

The air pressure in the tire is adjusted based on the weight/load of the aircraft. They are not very high pressure (rarely hundreds of pounds of pressure.) But when the guy gets it wrong, or the gauge is faulty and the tire FAILS the energy is released and the "rim" of the tire can fly at you and kill/maim you.

Before tire inflation kits were calibrated countless servicemen were killed or crippled (imagine having a large piece of Magnesium coming at your legs at a high rate of speed, it'll cut your legs off at the knees. If your lucky.)


When I preform a "high pressure" pneumatic calibration, ALL the work, lines, pressure source, device under test etc, are all behind "bullet proof" panels. At the LEAST we use ballistic shields that stand on the ground with a large lead base weight, they come up to eye level.


Bottom line it is frankly IRRESPONSIBLE for anyone to attempt this at home! It is for pro's only. I have seen Stainless Swagelock line and fittings fail under normal operation. And don't even get me started on brass! Bend the high pressure steel line incorrectly and weaken the tube wall and see what happens!

Accidents with low pressure are bad, let alone "high pressure." I worked with a guy who had a 150PSI pressure gauge "blow up" in his face. The Bourdon tube failed and blew out the glass (and all the glycerine) into his face. He had to be taken to the ER. The only reason he didn't lose an eye is because he was wearing safety glasses!

I saw another guy using a Ruska Gas Piston Gauge (dead weight tester.) He took the weight stack off the top of the piston (The weights counteract the pneumatic pressure applied to the bottom of the piston) without venting the pressure applied to the piston first. Well he was "floating" weights on a piston at over 1K PSI. When he removed the weights, the piston literally shot up out of the cylinder like a bullet and went into the overhead!

It's no joke.

But with CRYOGENIC liquids they can be a REAL nightmare.


I've seen 1 accident involving cryogenic liquids (nitrogen.) Someone was filling a Dewar with Liquid N2 from a large outdoor storage tank. The fill valve became frozen in the "fill" position (it was a very humid day, and the dewar was outside, Ice formed all over the valve... Big mistake) Well, after the Dewar was full and the over pressure safety valves had all opened (or should I say started SCREAMING) it burst a weld on the Dewar and FREEZING liquid/gas JETTED out until the main storage tank could be shut by a brave soul in the correct PPE (personal protective equipment.) Anyone who hadn't cleared the area would have received serious frost bite, and if the liquid/gas is inhaled the lungs can literally freeze and kill you.



DONT TRY THIS OUTSIDE OF A LAB!


I have the necessary experience and training to do this myself and access to some pretty sweet gear, DHI compressor/controllers, Real high pressure (45KPSI) fittings/lines, Platinum RTD's, High pressure transducers etc, and I still won't do it.

PLEASE don't try to "figure it out" with trial and error. You or someone else will get HURT. Do not attempt this method of hashish making without proper training and MOST importantly the RIGHT GEAR!!!



End rant,

Mr. M

taking what Mr Mountain has said into consideration, maybe this thread is not exactly wise. i hope we are all responsible enough not to try things without a proper understanding of all the possible consequences. thanks for the words of wisdom Mr. Mountain.

 

[Vector Mung]

I am saying that 75 Psi is not Super Critical State Extraction....

But you ARE saying that 75 PSI is Liquid State Extraction. Here's a picture of you saying it. I'm saying that you are wrong to say this. That does not mean I'm reading into things. I'm reading what you say, it is incorrect, then I am refuting it. When I do so, you tell me that I am not speaking to supercritical extraction and am straying from the point. Like my master, you order me to produce proof of a working system with full details and schematics. All while proving you do not understand the simplest concepts required for operation of such, nullifying your alleged desire. The demand, therefore, comes from spite, not a genuine desire for knowledge.

 

[gaiusmarius]

i think you are mistaken about Grey Wolf editing his posts, none of his posts on the last page are marked as having been edited.

i'd appreciate it if we can keep things on a civilized level. the best discussions are the ones where people post as they would speak face to face. it's no fun nor is it educational reading posts where people are trying to bait or insult each other. information is much easier to accept and digest when the messenger isn't being a dick about the message.

 

[Vector Mung]

i think you are mistaken about Grey Wolf editing his posts, none of his posts on the last page are marked as having been edited.

i'd appreciate it if we can keep things on a civilized level. the best discussions are the ones where people post as they would speak face to face. it's no fun nor is it educational reading posts where people are trying to bait or insult each other. information is much easier to accept and digest when the messenger isn't being a dick about the message.

Well what are you saying. I haven't said anything about anyone editing posts? And I don't think any of my posts say they've been edited, except for my first one where I responded to a rude post by Tokingham (his was deleted, mine had my retort removed only, indicated by My_Ass_Is_Grass at the bottom). So what's all this about me being mistaken and a dick?

 

[gaiusmarius]

wasn't calling anyone a dick as such lol. just saying in general it's a lot easier to listen to someone when they are being civilized about it.

as for the edit comment, i can't now see why i posted that. i thought you were saying that Grey Wolf went back to edit posts in order to change the context. but it seems i was tripping at the time because i can't find you saying any such thing at this stage lol. sorry about that, i wonder where i got my wires crossed.

 

[mofeta]

I have certainly been wrong before. Can you explain where that is a wrong assumption on my part in this matter

Hi Gray Wolf.

What VM is saying is that you miscalculated the pressure at which CO2 is liquid at ambient temperature. He is right. You used the wrong conversion factor. He points out that your vessel would have to be at -70 deg F for the CO2 to be liquid at 75psi, and need to have a pressure of over 900psi at 77deg F for CO2 to be liquid.

 

[mofeta]

1 megapascal = 145.0376 psi

 

[Vector Mung]

It is edifying to be understood, mofeta. In order to encourage any others who may have remained silent, yet who have a like ability to understand, I shall just leave this here.

 

[Mr. Mountain]

I wish you the best of luck in your project. Please be safe! It can be very easy to overlook something that seems trivial... Until it isn't.


And you do know the difference between a Metrologist and a Meteorologist, correct?

They are quite different.


Have a good night/morning,

Mr. M

 

[mofeta]

Metrologist

EDIT: I see you beat me to the punch on pointing this out, Mr. Mountain. It took me 8 tries before the ICMAG server would process my request to make this post, so by the time it finally showed up, you had already posted your response. Your gentlemanly demeanor seems equal to your authoritative knowledge of technical matters germane to the topic of this thread. I salute you, sir.

 

[mofeta]