Signs that a collapse is under way.

[Highlight]

Oh well.

 

[HempKat]

Some may find this interesting:

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

Many of you have completely missed the point.

Most of the contributors to politicians are not really income earners. They are, for the most part, labor and trade unions that represent socialist ideals.

These unions have no place in our society. They are the bloodsuckers of humanity with many ties to organized crime. Their modus operandi is threats, violence and intimidation.

The top 5 percent of income earners don't normally hire lobbyists and most unions get their money without having to earn it.

Choose to believe what you may.

You're completely missing the point if you think that the donations on public record is all there is. There's more then one way to line the pockets of a corrupt politician, it doesn't all have to be just campaign donations.

 

[igrowone]

... Were talking people so unintelligent that they honestly believed they never would have gotten the loan if the loan was too risky. Which wasn't unreasonable on there part because that's how it was for decades before the regulations were loosened or removed.

here we go, this is where it began
regulations were removed because(as we know) all government regulation is negative, and impedes economic growth
maybe not, or at least not as some simple formula that applies to all economic activity

 

[HempKat]

I would think you would know by now that religion and morals do not necessarily go hand-in-hand.

Did I say they do? No. Try brushing up on reading comprehension and resorting less on assumption.

 

[HempKat]

I'm no trader but I believe those balloon payments had to prop up the CDOs because little to no down payment and the first few months of interest-only teaser loans didn't support the already traded securities. I can't prove but the balloons may have been built-in gentrification in order to sell the same house again, 6 months later. Far fetched but we've seen crazy shit happening the last 10 years.

I recon the lady in the above example was on the street fairly quickly. Even if she qualified for a decent loan it probably would have amounted to a trailer. Other folks were in it for the right reasons and propped up worthless investments while their homes values sank well below what they're paying for. At least in some cases, it brings strategic default in to clearer view. The lady in your example may have actually thought her low payments would stick long enough to sell the house in the event she couldn't afford it. Make a profit like millions of other mortgagees were doing.

Charlie Sheen's ex-wife got out of an expensive home just before the bust and got rid of Charlie's ass along with it.

The woman in the example was still in the home at the time of the news story, where she is now I haven't a clue. Since she was at the beginning of the collapse having problems, you're likely right that she was on the streets in short order.

As for the plan to sell, foreclose, resell, repeat. Could be but I doubt it. As I recall the other dispicable part of the story was that it was either a relative or boyfriend that talked her into the deal.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Wouldn't be surprised if the resale idea wouldn't be an option the way securities blur who owns the initial loan.

I saw a vidideo of a couple that were foreclosed by BOA services. BOA didn't even seem to care that this couple paid cash for their home. Holy shit. The couple went to court and the judge laid the ~$2500 court costs on BOA.

The BOA branch that levied the erroneous foreclosure was presented with a levy (for lack of a better word) to force the branch to pay the court costs. The lawyer representing the couple arrived with two sheriff's deputies to seize assets equaling or exceeding the value of the court costs.

The deputies entered the bank but the lawyer was locked outside for an hour or so. What happened inside, according to the lawyer was terse negotiations to walk away with real assets. After an hour or so, the branch manager wrote a check.

The branch (bastard) fucked up every way from Sunday but finally had to cough.

 

[Bionic]

Watch this!!! Let's see what happens. Hopefully, a little more than nothing.

 

[Hydrosun]

Well that is tomorrow. I've got shit to do, can't really be part of a sit in (and be flagged into files). Hope there is all kinds of crazy BS in public spaces, but the call to action seems pretty vague.

 

[SpasticGramps]

Watch this!!! Let's see what happens. Hopefully, a little more than nothing.

I posted that earlier in the thread. This is the hacker group Anonymous. They attacked Paypal when Wikileaks was cut off. They also may have attacked the IMF a few weeks ago. That report by the IMF was just released.

I'm curious to see what happens. I'd like to see them go after some banks. I don't see a bunch of people standing around outside "occupying a public space."

Regardless, the seeds of revolution have been firmly planted IMO. The people are starting to see who the real enemy is. This is important for directing anger as the screws tighten.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I wish main street banks had the convenience of multi locations. As far as general banking needs, everybody mentions the bank with the most or more convenient atm locations etc.

I drive an extra mile and main street/credit union my bank account. No fees but interest is a paltry. A veritable drop in the pacific ocean yet I wish everybody could bank with the little guys. Alas, this ain't always practical.

I know that won't even help the frenetic pace of big banks but I got a little tired of big bank profit actions, always more fees for this and that.

 

[joeuser]

The problem is, the special interest groups lobbying the politicians, are the top 5%. They're not getting penalized for being successful. They're the ones funding the lobbyists to influence government so the top 5% might one day not pay a dime. It's not about fairness. If it was then the rich would not be hiring lobbyists to subvert the will of the majority.

Here's a thought, why don't all these rich fuckers hiring the lobbyists just not spend the money they do thru them? The surely spend far more influencing the government in their favor then they do in taxes.

We need to eliminate lobbyists...it's our ONLY hope. It's a multibillion dollar industry and it's ALL corrupt. It's like legal bribery!

mabey this will help here cause it didnt raise any eyebrows before.
when you read this and they refer to russia,just put the letters USA in their place and youll start to see the similarities.
leon trostsky was a marxist that had a slightley different oppinion,he wanted somthing called constant revolution, to set up the prerequisits for a socialist society,by turning the lower class into a wlfare/subserviant tax payer lower class ,a industrialized /military /govt employed middleclass and the upper class receiving all the wealth and doing the decision making and receiving all the profit,they will unite (distract) us with a common cause wich then we will all be forced to work for.
please discuss how this applies to us or dosnt,because to me it looks like we are getting closer by the day.

It's how it ALWAYS goes...it starts out good with high ideals and slowly evolves...devolves...into a pile of shit.

Stormfront misses you. Please go back there.

Oh please...spare me your judgment. Denying a thing does not diminish it's truthfulness.

Some may find this interesting:

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

Many of you have completely missed the point.

Most of the contributors to politicians are not really income earners. They are, for the most part, labor and trade unions that represent socialist ideals.

These unions have no place in our society. They are the bloodsuckers of humanity with many ties to organized crime. Their modus operandi is threats, violence and intimidation.

The top 5 percent of income earners don't normally hire lobbyists and most unions get their money without having to earn it.

Choose to believe what you may.

There are 2 sides...the Dems are mostly the unions. The Reps are the big multinationals who do the same thing...only in a different direction.

The top 5% ARE the CEOs and future high level politicians...they're our rulers. They make the laws.

Anybody see the Danial Elsberg article in the paper the other day?

Elsberg was a ex Marine turned government official that became a household name in the 1970s. Elsberg is the guy that leaked the documents known as the Pentagon Papers.

The Pentagon Papers exposed the government for lying to itself and the American people over the futile nature of the Vietnam war.

Elsberg was charged as a spy and arrested for treason. He could have ended up with a life-sentence at Ft. Leavenworth or at the end of a hangman's noose. The government had to let him go free because the government violated Elsberg's 4th amendment right to unnecessary search and seizure.

For quite some time, the story that culminated in president Richard Nixon's resignation centered on lying to investigators over the breaking and entering of DNC nation headquarters inside the Watergate Hotel.

Far closer to the truth, Nixon operatives broke into Elsberg's psychiatrist's office, seeking private, personal files that might suggest that Elsberg was insane, before during and after the release of the Pentagon Papers.

The Pentagon Papers not only revealed that every president involved in Vietnam knew the outcome was futile for the US. But they also revealed the fact that we'd studied the Vietnam potential from 1945 to 1971. Not unlike big tobacco having to cop after their own documents revealed they knew tobacco caused multiple and deadly health risks.

Elsberg went from traitor to national hero overnight. But Elsberg isn't happy today.

The Patriot Act made Nixon's crimes legal.

In the news article, Elsberg went on to say that every president since our involvement in Vietnam violated their war powers under the Constitution. The latest is Obama's incursion into Libya.

Central banking and the fractional-reserve monetary system could do us all in. But in the meantime, the Patriot Act gives any president any power they want.

When did we get out of Vietnam 74/75? We've had more wars [since then] than any point in history. Ike knew what was happening before we publicly acknowledged military actions in Vietnam. His official exit speech warned us not to underestimate the power of the Military Industrial Complex.

Ike wasn't talking about the USSR, the Cold War, nuclear annihilation etc. Mutually-assured-destruction and competent state department diplomats made the cold war sub-zero.

Ike was warning us about relatively small-yet-endless, conventional wars the MIC would aggressively lobby and foster in perpetuity. WWII and Korea whet MICs appetite for power and profits.

Wars don't have to be as big when weaponry is ever more expensive, coupled with US' desire to remain a super power.

Anybody remember Petraeus crowing that SOF operations forces have killed over 4000 Taliban combatants and captured over 2500 Taliban since Nato and US forces began to take on more resistance with the spring offensive?

90% of these captured, Taliban prisoners weren't Taliban at all. They were Afghan civilians and had to be released within days after their capture and interrogation. Makes one wonder how many non-Taliban afghan civilians were killed in that ~4000 figure.

These days, war never stops because MIC is as rich and powerful as ever. MIC even brainwashed Rumsfeld into publicly stating that all our weapons were just sitting around and should be put to use.

Our government is full of lying bastards...you didn't already know? ALL our "official" history is probably false.

Even the ones who basically can barely read or speak english and never would have qualified for a mortgage if they were working with reputable agents and lenders? People who didn't really understand what they were signing or intialling but rather only did so because they were told they had to if they wanted to get the home? These are the sorts of people the disreputable lenders and agents went after.

I remember seeing one woman on the news back when the bust first started happening. She was a hispanic woman barely able to speak english who had children, no husband and was making minimum wage. So asshole convinced her to buy a $300K home. It never should have happened, she never should have defaulted because she never should have got that mortgage. If she got to stay there rent free for a few years then it's just small consolation for the moral crime the lender commit in lending to someone who was doomed to default.

What I don't get with all this business of toxic loans etc. is that most of these foreclosures didn't happen until the ARM's adjusted so why don't the banks just go back to the lower rates with these folks? Some money is better then no money right?

They got loans because the government TOLD the banks to GIVE them loans! Get that through your head...the feds TOLD the banks they HAD to make loans to minorities...inner city minorities...so they DID! And now it's collapsed.

and because inner city minorities with no credit, no job, no income, we getting government backed mortgages...EVERYONE could get one with no credit, no job, and no income.

Yes...THEY SIGNED on the dotted line! ARE you saying that these minority people ARE too dumb to understand these legal matters? Then what else can't they handle themselves? Are you calling them too inferior to take care of themselves and make important decisions?

It IS what you infer...they're too stupid to make wise decisions...

The investors bought those fucked up mortgage packages because they were falsely rated as triple A which up until that point meant a very safe investment. The only involvement government had at that point was it was government that loosened the bonds of regulation that kept Wall Street from commiting such crimes. Too bad nobody at the time rembered that old lesson their parents or grandparents taught of, "If it looks too good to be true, it probably isn't".

They're NOT falsely reported as AAA...they WERE AAA because the US government GUARANTEED them...making them AAA. Why is this so difficult for people to understand? If I have AAA credit and I "co sign" a mortgage...guaranteeing it...that mortgage becomes AAA even though the guy I'm co signing is a deadbeat.

This WHOLE mess is the governments fault. A - for telling banks they HAD to loan to inner city neighborhoods and minorities. B - for guaranteeing mortgages in the first place. WHY does the government guarantee mortgages?

You're completely missing the point if you think that the donations on public record is all there is. There's more then one way to line the pockets of a corrupt politician, it doesn't all have to be just campaign donations.

Business deals...that's where the money is. I'll buy XXX million of your companies product if you vote this way on that bill.

Government and BIG business are one big happy (on our dollars) family. The same people moving back and forth between politics and business. It's ALL about the power and money.

 

[joeuser]

They aren't blameless but you make the wrong assumption that everyone possesses the same knowledge and abilities. Preadtory lending didn't go after smart educated buyers that do due dilligence. The want after idiots too stupid to see there is no way they could realistically afford a home let alone know how to do due dilligence in home buying. Were talking people so unintelligent that they honestly believed they never would have gotten the loan if the loan was too risky. Which wasn't unreasonable on there part because that's how it was for decades before the regulations were loosened or removed.

So telling...and true! Not EVERYONE possesses the same knowledge and abilities...so WHY won't we admit it publicly? Some people just aren't cut out to be responsible homeowners.

You keep calling it "predatory lending"...like there were guys grabbing people off the streets, dragging them kicking and screaming, into their office and tying them to a chair until they signed!

They should have KNOWN they couldn't afford the loan even though the GOVERNMENT had made NEW regulations telling the banks that HAD to give these people loans. So maybe I was right...to COMPLY with the new government regulations...maybe the banks DID have to drag people in and MAKE them buy a house!

 

[Hydrosun]

Financial crimes such as "Predatory Lending" "Fraud" and "Usury" normally doesn't have the victims kicking and screaming until AFTER the contract is closed.

That does not change the fact that these financial CRIMES have been recognized as immoral and unethical business practices by many societies.

People should KNOW things but they don't always, and these banks were not neutral COLD CALLING for potential borrowers is very different than waiting for a customer to walk for the door and REQUEST a loan.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

That's the nature of lending fraud.

 

[longearedfriend]

I agree with hempkat and hydrosun

thanks for bringing these points

some people dont know jack about finances

are we to rob them blind because they are weak ?

I know it's a dog eat dog world... but I believe in honest business, and I believe that only honest business can maintaing business

joeuser: it's like if we would say... well the woman wasn't strong enough to deffend herself so, well she got raped too bad !
it would be like saying the rape was okay

there is a lot of unethical business going around, I know, I have a friend who worked in sales (cars, boats..) and studied business so i know a little bit of what happens out there

we have to take good care of each other
(if we want a better future for all, even if just ourselves...I believe we are all connected)

 

[SpasticGramps]

Here is the deal. These banks wouldn't have lent all these crap loans out if they knew they had to eat the losses when they inevitably failed. They would be put out of business. Such goes free market self regulation.

But knowing that the taxpayer slaves are on the hook for all their losses they lent indiscriminately, at the behest of the government, and continue to do so. When the bad loans went belly up the taxpayer was on the hook and the CEO's of the banks were paid handsome salaries for raping everyone. Go America!

That is the heart of the problem. Privatized gains and socialized losses. The banks will continue with these practices because there is no incentive to stop. They know that whenever they fuck up the taxpayer slaves will have to foot the bill. They make all the money going up and the taxpayer eats all the losses going down. That's how America works. That's how fascism works. And the regulations they are passing now only serve to further institutionalize the monopoly the big banks have. It's disgusting.

 

[joeuser]

Financial crimes such as "Predatory Lending" "Fraud" and "Usury" normally doesn't have the victims kicking and screaming until AFTER the contract is closed.

That does not change the fact that these financial CRIMES have been recognized as immoral and unethical business practices by many societies.

People should KNOW things but they don't always, and these banks were not neutral COLD CALLING for potential borrowers is very different than waiting for a customer to walk for the door and REQUEST a loan.

So you don't like money lending for interest...what does that have to do with anything? It's legal here and everyone does it. You've never borrowed form a bank? If you can't handle our system, go to some religious country somewhere, where THEY decide EVERYTHING about how you live...have at it...good luck with that!

So advertising is "predatory"? You CAN'T hang up? Say no? You're not only stupid, you also can't say no? I don't understand how a cold call can MAKE you buy something as complicated as a house.

People on the radio and TV are always trying to get me to buy something too. I bet those same "suckers" can't say no to the home shopping network or TV preachers either...right?

I agree with hempkat and hydrosun

thanks for bringing these points

some people dont know jack about finances

are we to rob them blind because they are weak ?

I know it's a dog eat dog world... but I believe in honest business, and I believe that only honest business can maintaing business

joeuser: it's like if we would say... well the woman wasn't strong enough to deffend herself so, well she got raped too bad !
it would be like saying the rape was okay

there is a lot of unethical business going around, I know, I have a friend who worked in sales (cars, boats..) and studied business so i know a little bit of what happens out there

we have to take good care of each other
(if we want a better future for all, even if just ourselves...I believe we are all connected)

Actually...it's closer to "the woman goes up to Mike Tyson's hotel room at 2:30 AM, both drunk, and is SHOCKED when he makes his move". Only an IDIOT, incapable of self determination would do.

So tell me...we're supposed to do EVERYTHING at the 3rd grade level? After all, we're not ALL as smart as to be able to figure out all these complicated financial things. What you suggest is what's WRONG with America. Idiocracy is a PERFECT descriptor of Americans these days. You guys PROVE it!

Dumb EVERYTHING down so an idiot can do it...Geico would be proud of us...even a cave man can do it!

As you age...you'll get more and more frustrated with idiots...trust me. And the world get more and more of them daily! If you can't keep up...fucking move over and let those who can flourish. Instead we give their slot to some stupid asshole...because we have a quota to fill.

No...that's NOT what "we're supposed to do". We're SUPPOSED to take care of ourselves and leave the world IMPROVED because of our presence. Feeding 100 lazy people isn't noble. Getting those 100 to feed themselves and even ADD to the pile is the goal. You've been brainwashed! From birth! To believe in bullshit.

Here is the deal. These banks wouldn't have lent all these crap loans out if they knew they had to eat the losses when they inevitably failed. They would be put out of business. Such goes free market self regulation.

But knowing that the taxpayer slaves are on the hook for all their losses they lent indiscriminately, at the behest of the government, and continue to do so. When the bad loans went belly up the taxpayer was on the hook and the CEO's of the banks were paid handsome salaries for raping everyone. Go America!

That is the heart of the problem. Privatized gains and socialized losses. The banks will continue with these practices because there is no incentive to stop. They know that whenever they fuck up the taxpayer slaves will have to foot the bill. They make all the money going up and the taxpayer eats all the losses going down. That's how America works. That's how fascism works. And the regulations they are passing now only serve to further institutionalize the monopoly the big banks have. It's disgusting.

Let me go one step further...it wasn't at the governments "behest"...it was with them breathing down their necks. You don't remember the banks hollering about the "points" system? If they didn't have enough "points", meaning minority, inner city, loans...they were fined...I believe.

I'm NOT here to praise the banks...but fair IS fair...THIS time it wasn't them. It was the government.

The whole MBS fiasco...that was the banks trying to unload all those mortgages that they KNEW were bad...yet the government MADE them do...to "unwary" sovereigns, speculators and pension funds. Why do you think we did the first bailout and most of it went overseas? To bail out the nonperforming MBS that our banks sold them. They WERE guaranteed...they WERE AAA!!!

All this economic shit is the DIRECT fault of your fucking too generous, to get votes, government. They guaranteed mortgages that had about a 1 in 10,000 chance of being paid back, that banks were forced to give, to people without a thing. It COULD have worked but for 2 things. The gas crunch immediately followed by the ARM resets. Gas doubled in price, putting many families over the top...and then the reset did them in. And now we're in a depression because that caused it to all unravel. When people stop paying their mortgage...all kinds of things happen, all kinds of OTHER debt can't be serviced.

I blame it all on the government giving money to the poor who leveraged themselves into something they knew damn well they had no business getting involved in.

 

[SpasticGramps]

I don't really differentiate between the government and the banks. IMO the government is a subsidiary of the banks thanks central banking and central planning.

 

[Hydrosun]

Whether I "like" money lending for interest is irrelevant. I did not create laws against "Usury" "Predatory Lending" or "Financial Fraud" YOUR society and YOUR system did that. What makes you think I don't live in a religious country that tries to make all my decisions for me?

Advertising may or may not be predatory, but entering into a contract where you know the opposite party can not reasonably perform is predatory and a violation of mortgage banking regulations.

Home loans in Amerika are regulated differently than other crap peddled on TV and Radio, but even if it is not a financial product you can still get in trouble for defrauding the sheep (see. electronic weight loss ab belt, and Enzite for recent consumer fraud actions).

So why are you so upset that your systems has these rules against improper business practices? Should con men be allowed to ignore these regulations with the same moral authority as cannabis cultivators ignore federal cultivation prohibition?

I'm all about breaking rules and caveat emptor, you however seem to have a reverence for the system combined with a contempt for its regulations. An interesting paradox, well keep enjoying your system or your version of it.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

The housing bust is a culmination of a half dozen aspects that burned the candle at both ends.

Low interest rates despite contrary indicators = bond returns suck.

Increased mortgage securitization = less risk to lenders

Sustained poor bond rates = increased global capital in the market seeking better returns

Increased market capital = increased securities demand.

Increased securities demand = increased loan demand.

Increased loan demand = less solvent buyers