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Need elite grower to help.
- Thread starter independent_1
- Start date
independent_1
Member
I agree here weird reading about terra preta you need to establish this relationship between roots and bb. Others on the other hand like toohigh wouldn't probably agree.Nutes are nutes but that's not really where I want to take this whole thing. I really want to understand why my plants fail.
We've already established two views on whats wrong here.A your view. I'm feeding to much and B. what I'm doing should be fine I might even be starving them. I've played with both scenarios and doing either doesn't change what's happening. That's why I posted elite growing help. I'll be glad to share exatly what I do but it's very basic without to many frills. Thabks for helping my understanding.
We've already established two views on whats wrong here.A your view. I'm feeding to much and B. what I'm doing should be fine I might even be starving them. I've played with both scenarios and doing either doesn't change what's happening. That's why I posted elite growing help. I'll be glad to share exatly what I do but it's very basic without to many frills. Thabks for helping my understanding.
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BongRipkenJR.
Active member
I have had plenty of great success with no aqua shield. Check the K.I.S.S. forum. Not a damn person in there needs it to get great harvests either. Since he is having quite a pretty consistent problem he should just stick to the lucas formula.
I understand that it has different bacterias, but how do they feed? I have a pretty good understanding of beneficial bacterias and the soil food web, but what is the point in hydro? I dont get why you would need it in hydro what so ever. The bennies need something to feed on and sustain them. That is where molasses comes into play, as well as a host of other things. See, Dr. Krasilinikov is a soil scientist. He probably would not use GH with benneficials. I make compost teas and guano teas and could not grow organically without them. All I am saying is mineral fertilizers are more concentrated and create a harsher environment for the benneficials. They don't survive on micro and bloom. Hygrozyme and aqua shield are both products I have used for a very short time. One of them unknowingly. They did nothing for general hydroponics or CES. My best results have been a dead res with tap water. If he was in soil with even Pure Blend Pro I would say go for it, but on hydro, no quote from Botanicare is gonna make me want to use that product.
Quote from "Steve" from Botanicare...
"This product creates a natural and beneficial growing environment at the root zone of your plants. This product is derived from composted poultry liter which has natural occurring bacteria that build a symbiotic relationship with your plant roots."
I actually take back that it is snake oil as long as it is being used in the correct manner. In a ebb and flow bucket system with the saltiest ferts known to man, I dont see the point.
I understand that it has different bacterias, but how do they feed? I have a pretty good understanding of beneficial bacterias and the soil food web, but what is the point in hydro? I dont get why you would need it in hydro what so ever. The bennies need something to feed on and sustain them. That is where molasses comes into play, as well as a host of other things. See, Dr. Krasilinikov is a soil scientist. He probably would not use GH with benneficials. I make compost teas and guano teas and could not grow organically without them. All I am saying is mineral fertilizers are more concentrated and create a harsher environment for the benneficials. They don't survive on micro and bloom. Hygrozyme and aqua shield are both products I have used for a very short time. One of them unknowingly. They did nothing for general hydroponics or CES. My best results have been a dead res with tap water. If he was in soil with even Pure Blend Pro I would say go for it, but on hydro, no quote from Botanicare is gonna make me want to use that product.
Quote from "Steve" from Botanicare...
"This product creates a natural and beneficial growing environment at the root zone of your plants. This product is derived from composted poultry liter which has natural occurring bacteria that build a symbiotic relationship with your plant roots."
I actually take back that it is snake oil as long as it is being used in the correct manner. In a ebb and flow bucket system with the saltiest ferts known to man, I dont see the point.
ogenko
Member
my plants had similar symptoms run after run for a year
never got a bud worth even saving
i had some caulking on my nft tracks from ace hardware
wasn't much, but it contained the pthytalate esther crap
phucked my buds up, they just start to flower and never get to mature buds
drove my nuts till i read about the toxic stuff in ngw tubing and looked on my caulk label
cut off the caulked part and used pure silicone
plants are happy as pigs in shit now
check around for stuff that could be toxic
pvc softeners .....
good luck amigo
independent_1
Member
I'm on the same page there bongrip but I just can't see whats affecting my plants. I use these as a prevention not really a supplement but I guess my question would be what harm do they do?
independent_1
Member
Ogenko Glad to hear you found your prob. I actually just used silicon around the perimeter of room where floor meets wall. I sealed this room tighter than a ducks butt. My system and the last one I'll ever buy or attempt again I'm just over it is an ebb and grow. no sealents used but someone suggested maybe the tubing. I don't know a few more postings and I'll catalog pics of the rest on here so someone else can learn. I'm so frustrated all I can do is burn.
BongRipkenJR.
Active member
Well, it seems like a nute lockout is happening. I really wish I could see pictures. Purple stems and yellow veins. Just use micro and bloom and make sure you mix the micro in first.
What is coming to mind right now is since you are using these bacterias they could be causing a more rapid up take of nutrients which can be locking out calcium. If they are turning yellow then brown from the bottom up then Nitrogen can be getting locked out from too much potassium(i believe, not 100%). The hygrozyme could be staining the roots. Check to see if the roots are slimy or if they are just brown. I would think the aqua shield with a nutrient that is already readily available is becoming to much. Micro, bloom, and tap water works great! Well, depends on how good your tap water is. Mine sits at 100ppm
What is coming to mind right now is since you are using these bacterias they could be causing a more rapid up take of nutrients which can be locking out calcium. If they are turning yellow then brown from the bottom up then Nitrogen can be getting locked out from too much potassium(i believe, not 100%). The hygrozyme could be staining the roots. Check to see if the roots are slimy or if they are just brown. I would think the aqua shield with a nutrient that is already readily available is becoming to much. Micro, bloom, and tap water works great! Well, depends on how good your tap water is. Mine sits at 100ppm
independent_1
Member
yeah i thought that too. I was thinking well maybe the bb's are eating up nutes and locking out others. The veins are green it's in between them that goes yellow. It's a cross of nitrogen and mag def The burnt leaf fringes are really annoying they turn overnight . . If one were to look at the grower bible it's definetly the nitrogen or mag looking leaves. I've done soils with teas and such and I would just keep feeding molasses to them to keep em happy but in this case I have heard of some using molasses but to me it's to feed your bbs. feed your soil not your plants right. So it makes sense cause this happens everytime. I don't know what to do about the roots now. They are looking better I think or maybe wishful thinking but they go from white and plush looking to stringy and tan looking everytime at this juncture. I hate the fact that I having such a hard time learning hydro and dialing it I'm just going insane.
BongRipkenJR.
Active member
Try flood tables. Wash your hydroton completely with hot water. I used ebb and flow tables with hydroton and 4x4" rockwool and they work great! I just used tap, a general hydro 3 part(could of done without the grow), and flora nectar. Worked great. I had a 1200 watt grow that pulled 1gpw with no fans, co2, ac, or anything. Just 6 plants on drippers in hydroton and rockwool. I have never done the buckets. I know you can get big yields, but too many parts and hoses. Flood and drain tables are nice and simple. and you get beautiful canopies.
I honestly think you are better off going with coco like you were talking about. More environmentally friendly. Especially if you had success with it before and aren't having it with hydroponics. Good luck man! I really hope keeping it simple works. Try to run tap water with your RO water and bring it up to 100ppm. You might like it, micro, and bloom well enough. Oh, and get a photobucket account and upload some photos.
I honestly think you are better off going with coco like you were talking about. More environmentally friendly. Especially if you had success with it before and aren't having it with hydroponics. Good luck man! I really hope keeping it simple works. Try to run tap water with your RO water and bring it up to 100ppm. You might like it, micro, and bloom well enough. Oh, and get a photobucket account and upload some photos.
Not sure if this has been addressed but what kind of hose are using in the room, NGW hose? If any of your black tubing is NGW theres your problem.
BongRipkenJR.
Active member
This was already brought up. He is rocking that cap hose and there is no #3 recycle logo.
MyGreenToe
Member
When I hear "Mg deficiencies at week 4", I am prone to think root aphids. Have you checked your medium for pests? It's the last thing you want, but you'll never be rid of them if you have them and never know. (speaking from experience on that one)
independent_1
Member
Well I opened an account but how I get from there to here is way beyond my skill set.I can probably figure it out if someone tells me how, I got a zip file and when I try to download it on here it tells me it's an invalid file.
As far as the tables go I'm not about to invest in anymore hydro stuff. If i can't make this system work I'm going coco dtw.Which by the way the design of these buckets work great for dtw coco. I just run the tube to a drain and hand water em but easy enough to rig this set up to automatic feed. Simple right ? No more res changes. Fill the tank and feed when tank is empty fill it and feed. Or just seperate the fill and drain hose and make the drain hose empty into a drain. So tomorrow a.m. I guess I'm just gonna hit em with gh micro and bloom nothing else @ about 400 to 500 unless someone has something more to offer as I'm out of ideas.
As far as the tables go I'm not about to invest in anymore hydro stuff. If i can't make this system work I'm going coco dtw.Which by the way the design of these buckets work great for dtw coco. I just run the tube to a drain and hand water em but easy enough to rig this set up to automatic feed. Simple right ? No more res changes. Fill the tank and feed when tank is empty fill it and feed. Or just seperate the fill and drain hose and make the drain hose empty into a drain. So tomorrow a.m. I guess I'm just gonna hit em with gh micro and bloom nothing else @ about 400 to 500 unless someone has something more to offer as I'm out of ideas.
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independent_1
Member
Attachments
First, those roots don't look big enough to support a plant 3 or 4 weeks into flower....
Maybe a pic of the healthy roots so we can compare???
Your problem is in the roots....Once the plants stop putting its energy into making roots (3 weeks into flower for an 8 - 9 week strain) the plants focuses on making the fruit...
KISS...I would try to lower the temp of your water and run a sterile system...
mc
Maybe a pic of the healthy roots so we can compare???
Your problem is in the roots....Once the plants stop putting its energy into making roots (3 weeks into flower for an 8 - 9 week strain) the plants focuses on making the fruit...
KISS...I would try to lower the temp of your water and run a sterile system...
mc
independent_1
Member
I figured it out ohh joy
Thanks for the help here. See if I can save this one.https://www.icmag.com/ic/attachment...entid=109339&stc=1&d=13012918321&d=1301291832
Thanks for the help here. See if I can save this one.https://www.icmag.com/ic/attachment...entid=109339&stc=1&d=13012918321&d=1301291832
Attachments
independent_1
Member
You know the other thing I should mention is when these plants were feeding heavy they would eat about 150 ppm off the tank every day. The h20 level would drop and the ppms would stay the same as the h2o drops Add h2o back and it would be 150 to 200 ppms lower. When I look at my notes I had these @ 1150 and when they get close to this 4 wk period I notice i had to add back less and less nutes. They seem to quit feeding. Does that make sense? I think I was starting @ 6 9 and adding more to bump it up. It seems I must have taken the "I think they're hungry" approach till they started tapering off and then they started crashing, they seem to not be feeding much now.
I imagine the root mass is in the buckets, those roots are just the ones that grow out of the buckets into the small space on the bottoms, Buckets are 2 G full of hydroton.
I imagine the root mass is in the buckets, those roots are just the ones that grow out of the buckets into the small space on the bottoms, Buckets are 2 G full of hydroton.
independent_1
Member
I got some pics up finally so take a look and hopefully I can hold em together for a few more weeks Thanks
i too had the same issues, as i was new to DWC, but not growing. LOWER YOUR NUTES- I dont event give any to veg plants (although i use RO water so i do use CALMAG) but that's it. Roots take off like mad. I too tried increasing ppm to over 1100 and it burned my roots! IMHO, 1200 is good for ebb tables but not when the roots are constatntly in the solution. What do you have to lose? I agree, those roots aren't developed enough..when i was in that situation during veg (slow root growth) i'd simply snip them if they were getting too big, and let the root system catch up with the rest of the plant. I am running DWC with 3-400 ppm in veg, and 700 in flower ,using AN just a&b no additives. KISS...
