Cutting Edge Vs. General Hydroponics

[DigDuggreen]

I started flowering two plants under 250 watt hps two weeks ago, one in Cutting Edge, and one in General Hydroponics. with a little foxfarms additives including Opensesame, Beastie Blooms, and Cha Ching. (only cause I had them on the shelf) Both plants are in 5 gallon Homer buckets witch im going to black out with dark material so the roots get no lighting (Ill get to that this weekend). each has there own air pump and dual lines and stones.

Ive compared each nutrient and see very minor differences in whats listed as far as whats in it the only difference i see is the amounts the say to use. so we shall see whats happens. her are some pics, 15 days today

 

[hippydan]

Cool idea, I look forward to see the differences, if they're noticeable. Ever thought of putting 1 airline from each pump into each bucket? Might save some trouble if one of the pumps craps out on you! Good luck, stay safe!

 

[DigDuggreen]

Bitchen Idean HD Im on it right now, nice little piece of insurance!!! thanks.

 

[DigDuggreen]

okay so its day 18 buds are starting to grow. I dont see much difference at all at this point. I took some zip ties and got some of the cords and stuff out of the way. put some yo yo's on the light so i can get it down a bit closer to the tops, and wrapped the buckets to block out any light and help insulate to prevent any drastic temp changes. also cut a top for the lids out of FRP and painted the underside black again for light control. also I cut the air lines and put in a barbed union as sort of a quick disconnect to make access a little easier.

 

[ShroomDr]

FWIW i posted their listed breakdown and differences here.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=3967410#post3967410
...Its basically a copycat of GH, but there are some differences.

GH Flora Micro (5-0-1)
(NH4)0.3% (NO3)4.7% Ca5.0% Fe.1% Co.0005% Mn.05% Mo.0008%
4650g/3790mL = 1.123g/mL
@10mL/Gal
N 162
P 0
K 27
Mg 0
Ca 162
S NOT LISTED
Fe 3.24
B NOT LISTED
Co 0.016
Cu NOT LISTED
Mn 1.62
Mo 0.026
Zn NOT LISTED
Derived from: Calcium Nitrate, Potassium Nitrate, Potassium Sulfate, Calcium Carbonate, Iron DPTA, Iron EDDHA, Potassium Borate, Cobalt Nitrate, Copper Nitrate, Manganese EDTA, Ammonium Molybdate, Zinc Nitrate.

Cutting Edge Solution Micro (6-0-0)
(NH4)0.3% (NO3)5.7% Ca5% Fe.1% B.02% Co.0005% Mn.05% Mo.0008%
1200g/946mL = 1.27g/mL
@10mL/Gal
N 201
P 0
K 0
Mg 0
Ca 168
S NOT LISTED
Fe 3.35
B 0.67
Co 0.02
Mn 1.68
Mo 0.03
Na NOT LISTED
Derived from: Calcium Nitrate, Calcium Carbonate, Iron DPTA, Iron EDDHA, Boric Acid, Cobalt Sulfate, Manganese EDTA, Sodium Molybdate, Zinc Nitrate.

So lets see...
GH uses Potassium Nitrate, CES does not.
GH uses Copper Nitrate, CES does not list any Cu
GH puts the Potassium Sulfate in the micro bottle, CES puts it in the bloom.
GH's Potassium Borate vs. CES's Boric Acid.
GH's Cobalt Nitrate vs. CES's Cobalt Sulfate.
GH's Ammonium Molybdate vs. CES's Sodium Molybdate.

GH Flora Bloom (0-5-4) Mg1.5% S1.0%
4360g/3790mL = 1.15g/mL
@10mL/Gal
N 0
P 66
K 101
Mg 46
Ca 0
S 30
Derived from: Potassium Phosphate, Phosphoric Acid, Magnesium Sulfate, Magnesium Carbonate, Magnesium Phosphate, Potassium Carbonate, Potassium Sulfate.

Cutting Edge Solution Bloom (0-6-5) Mg1% S2%
1090g/946mL= 1.15g/mL
@10mL/Gal
N 0
P 80
K 126
Mg 30
Ca 0
S 61
Derived from: Phosphoric Acid, Magnesium Phosphate, Potassium Carbonate, Potassium Sulfate.

CES doesnt list Potassium Phosphate (This is the only 'bloom formula' i think ive ever seen that does not. Potassium Phosphate is a staple of PK boosters and bloom formulas.).
GH lists Magnesium Sulfate, Magnesium Carbonate, CES doesnt.



As far as usage goes, ive started with GH, checked out CES, and went back to GH, i didnt notice a difference (and i like that more ingredients are listed with GH). According to my calculations, CES is slightly more concentrated than GH (6+9 = 5+8).
==============================


I'll be watching your lil experiment.

 

[DigDuggreen]

I will make note that after giving a nute change- after three days the cutting edge plant started to bear claw a little, so I checked ph and ppm and the ppm/ph over a three day period started at 1220/5.8 dropped down to 1130/5.6 and on the the third day 990/5.6, and 2 hours later it started to curl the nutes were 1170/5.6. So what concerns me is every time this plant takes a drink of water the whole solution goes out of wack, this must because there is only 3 gallons of solution, not much of a buffer, so I should drop nutes 25%, or increase the water level, or change the nutes out every three days????

 

[DigDuggreen]

Good information SD Im more than satisfied with GH and its not even a month of flowering yet. Im finding it to be more stable.

 

[Drfter]

You wanna make a diffrence with CES Add Sugaree all the way through and gravity for a hardner, Since CES is not done with there flower Booster. I talk to the owner on a regular basis~

I just did 12 oz off one plant with that setup~

 

[DigDuggreen]

I appreciate the advice, I have gravity on the shelf I normally dont use it till closer till the end like around middle of week 5. never heard of sugaree i guess Ill have to research that a bit, thanks for the info. if i could get 12 oz off of one plant I could get away with only growing one cycle a year and that would save me a shit load of money. I will definitely be looking into it. thank you.

 

[Drfter]

Yes and I will post Pics Soon, I did 42 oz off 6 plants and 3600 Watts last round in RDWC

 

[brotherindica]

You wanna make a diffrence with CES Add Sugaree all the way through and gravity for a hardner, Since CES is not done with there flower Booster. I talk to the owner on a regular basis~

I just did 12 oz off one plant with that setup~

VERY! interested in the Sugaree, just got a bottle to try out. How much do you like to apply? I've been very happy running a mix based off CES Micro/Bloom. Going to try the Sugaree soon, really curious to see the results.


- ShroomDr...great info! Switched from 6/9 to 5/8 myself when going from GH to CES, found it to be a tad hotter just like you mentioned.


- Dig. Awesome trial, very interested to see how things go! I would try adding some water and checking pH/EC. Maybe change solution in a few days. Sounds like you got it, 3 gal solution isn't too much. Switched from 5 gal buckets in DWC to 30+ gal tubes in DWC and noticed much slower, smaller swings in pH/EC. I was checking pH daily/twice daily on large buckets before, every 2-3 days in tubs. IME any high performance system ((R)DWC, Aero, etc) really benefits from larger reservoirs.

 

[DigDuggreen]

Bro, one of the main reason's im trying this out, is not only to find what solution I want to use but also to see if dwc is for me, I am currently flowering 9 plants in a 3x3 flood table and Ive had okay results with this but not getting enough out of it. Ive tried fox farms it was alright but messy, ive tried canna witch i really like and did okay but just not the numbers that im looking for. im in week seven with it right now using cutting edge and im just not happy with it at all. so im going back to the basic, that 1k bulb should be poppin a pound easily as far as im concerned. and the closest ive been was 14 oz with a sog. that was canna and a real nice run. my buddy talked my into this cutting edge and well all i can say is im going to try the sugaree but so far im not all that impressed.

 

[DigDuggreen]

i know i can do better cause I see everyone else on here just kicking my ass, I really dont know what the problem is, My environment is problably my weekest link and its ideal. my temps are good my humidity is the only thing really in question it runs a bit high but im not having mold issues so I dont know. Ill have to create a thread on it and get some pointers from all you pro's.

 

[brotherindica]

Bro, one of the main reason's im trying this out, is not only to find what solution I want to use but also to see if dwc is for me, I am currently flowering 9 plants in a 3x3 flood table and Ive had okay results with this but not getting enough out of it. Ive tried fox farms it was alright but messy, ive tried canna witch i really like and did okay but just not the numbers that im looking for. im in week seven with it right now using cutting edge and im just not happy with it at all. so im going back to the basic, that 1k bulb should be poppin a pound easily as far as im concerned. and the closest ive been was 14 oz with a sog. that was canna and a real nice run. my buddy talked my into this cutting edge and well all i can say is im going to try the sugaree but so far im not all that impressed.

In terms of production, personally I've had the most success in RDWC. 1st run on an untested RDWC system, untested strain (4 pheno's from seed, WhiteFire OG), under 1K in a 3x3 tent returned ~25z. I was to say the least. Switched to CES from GH due to cheaper costs shortly before that run. Got the same results in others and never switched back.

Any idea water temp and how much air you're running to each bucket? I prefer 66-69F and the appearance of a rapid boil. IMO recirculating is better too, if possible.

How is the Fox Farm stuff working in DWC? I remember trying their "hydro" grow, tiger bloom, etc ages ago.....sadly it ended horribly. Hopefully their additives are better.

I like going 'back to the basics'. Try to go as simple as possible in DWC, IME too many additives don't work well in these systems. A Micro/Bloom, touch Calmag, a PK booster, maybe an enzyme, and maybe touch "organics" (Floralicious plus, personal fav). Keep in good pH, moderate EC, and finished with a good flush...some of the best herb I've ever experienced.

 

[DigDuggreen]

Bro- yeah I think im sold on the RDWC ive been contemplating it for a while now. so when this crop comes down i will build one. the only problem I have with it is...it wont be long and ill have to install a water chiller cause it gets mighty hot in the garage, but i have some ideas that will help me over come the summer heat. my closet out there is a 4X4 it has a small window ac. a charcoal scrubber on a 6" windtunnel. 1000w light with a bat wing type thing that needs to be up graded to a Raptor or something along those lines. im not sure how to build it though Ive been looking at stuff on here and have some ideas but any help is definitely appreciated.

as for my buckets they stay right at 69-70 so im okay with that, I prefer it a little on the cooler side though.

Im only using the fox farm additives like the open sesame, beastie bloomz. and I guess its working okay, the plants are 18 days into flowering and creaping along not wowing me to much but the plants appear to be healthy. the one with GH has a slight brown ring aournd the roots where the water level is at so im keeping an eye on it to make sure its not wrought, it shouldnt be though cause Im using a little DM zone. Ill flush it tomorrow and see with some h202 and see how she looks.

any way hopefully this sugaree stuff will get things poppin, patience is a virtue.

 

[DigDuggreen]

Just a little update: First day of week for, there coming along, still no noticeable difference between the two nute lines, the #1 plants is running a bit hot, so I added some Ph'd water to bring down the ppm's, Im having a hard time keeping things consistant it seems like every other day Im having to adjust the solution, I dont know how every one esle is doing it but with only 4 gallons of water it makes for a lot of work. Im thinking about under feeding so that after a few days go by the nutrient level comes up the Ph will go down and the fluxuation will give the plants every thing they need, thats my theorie on it, anyone else have any thing to suggest? I had to order the sugaree since all three hydro stores dont carry it.

 

[Rowdy420]

With only a 4 gallon reservoir the plant is going to uptake a large % of the H2O and leave the remaining solution with a high ppm reading. Most likely your going to have problems balancing the ph also.

The only suggestion I have is to get larger reservoirs, I don't think under feeding them is going to accomplish any thing other than limiting your yield in the end.

I like your experiment, we should all be trying to get better.

Good luck, peace

 

[brotherindica]

Just a little update: First day of week for, there coming along, still no noticeable difference between the two nute lines, the #1 plants is running a bit hot, so I added some Ph'd water to bring down the ppm's, Im having a hard time keeping things consistant it seems like every other day Im having to adjust the solution, I dont know how every one esle is doing it but with only 4 gallons of water it makes for a lot of work. Im thinking about under feeding so that after a few days go by the nutrient level comes up the Ph will go down and the fluxuation will give the plants every thing they need, thats my theorie on it, anyone else have any thing to suggest? I had to order the sugaree since all three hydro stores dont carry it.

Looking good Dig!

How many days and what strain is that?

Are you feeding RO water or tap? Checking pH daily, especially during heavy flower, will likely be necessary with only 4 gal of nutrient solution.

 

[DigDuggreen]

Looking good Dig!

How many days and what strain is that?

Are you feeding RO water or tap? Checking pH daily, especially during heavy flower, will likely be necessary with only 4 gal of nutrient solution.

Its what there calling Blueberry Yum Yum, but you know how that goes, it my be that here and called blue dick in the uk, it was a couple clones I got off a buddy of mine that got them out of a Bakersfield club. its not what I normally grow, Im more into a sog of Sant Cruz og, thats got to be the best pot, really piney and really stoney, not really a huge yielder but practice makes perfect. I would like to get my hands on some seeds for some Afghan but I just dont know where to go.

Im feeding them tap water, my water comes out of the tap at about 175-200 ppms so its pretty good, I dont have to use much cal/mag until about week 5 or 6, ill start adding a little bit if need be,

Right now there on Day 23. I found some Sugaree and did a change out on the CES bucket, and to keep things fair Im going to get some flora licious for the GH bucket, I cut out the FoxFarms shit until week 5 im going to hit them again.

 

[brotherindica]

Its what there calling Blueberry Yum Yum, but you know how that goes, it my be that here and called blue dick in the uk, it was a couple clones I got off a buddy of mine that got them out of a Bakersfield club. its not what I normally grow, Im more into a sog of Sant Cruz og, thats got to be the best pot, really piney and really stoney, not really a huge yielder but practice makes perfect. I would like to get my hands on some seeds for some Afghan but I just dont know where to go.

Im feeding them tap water, my water comes out of the tap at about 175-200 ppms so its pretty good, I dont have to use much cal/mag until about week 5 or 6, ill start adding a little bit if need be,

Right now there on Day 23. I found some Sugaree and did a change out on the CES bucket, and to keep things fair Im going to get some flora licious for the GH bucket, I cut out the FoxFarms shit until week 5 im going to hit them again.

Good deal, sounds like a plan. Very interested to see how things come out!