Any 1.5+ grams per Watt grows????

[DaPurps]

I suppose that would defintely set the bushes behind in gpw. I'm not arguing Just wrapping my own head around it all. I see where the GPW will always be higher from clones, but w/ the sep veg space I understand the benefit of the lower plant count. If your not tracking GPW and have the seperate space, the flower room will run the max cycles either way though. That we can all agree on.. I think where I am thrown off is I don't see most people counting the veg time into the GPS calculations.

 

[ItGrows]

2240 clones taken from a couple of mums under 46 watt cfl's? come on man.

 

[zbenjii]

heath and dr. bud are known for their SOG grows for a reason.

 

[Anti]

2240 clones taken from a couple of mums under 46 watt cfl's? come on man.

So grow your clones under whatever lighting you deem worthy and calculate that wattage as a part of your total GPW if you want to be honest with yourself.

 

[smoke1sun]

Example #1: 4 plants in a 10x10, each plant vegging for 2 months + flower of 65 days = 62+65=131 days

Example #2: 400 plants in a 10x10, each plant having been a freshly rooted clone + flower of 65 days = 0+65=65 days.

You can run Example #1 (131 days per cycle) 2.78 times per year.

You can run Example #2 (65 days per cycle) 5.61 times per year.

Let's assume for argument sake that we already did a lot of experimenting and found that 4 large plants in a 10x10 room bring in 2 lbs. (1/2 lbs per plant.) Let's also assume for this discussion that you can get the same 2 lbs off of 400 straight-from-clone-no-veg tiny plantlets.If your 4 large plants yielded the same as your 400 tiny plantlets (2 lbs.) then each plantlet would have yielded 2.27g each.*

*It doesn't matter what the real world yield is. I personally yield more than 8g per un-vegged clone in my own system, so 2.27g would be some pitiful looking plants. What matters is that if you are comparing a room's maximum potential yield and you dialed it in with large or small plants, you can do more cycles per year if you use the smaller plants and eliminate vegging.


Ok. So here's where the year calculation comes in.

In Example #1, you can only do this 2.78 times a year for a total yearly yield of 2lbs x 2.78 cycles = 5.56 lbs per year.

In Example #2, you can do this 5.61 times per year for a total yearly yield of 2lbs x 5.61 cycles = 11.22 lbs per year.

So even if we ignore things like separate veg areas, etc. we can see that by using many smaller un-vegged plants that we can achieve a considerably higher yield.

This is all DHF is saying.

Correct me if I'm wrong, D.

Thanks for the info. This is the info I needed to help me wrap my head around this. Thanks!!!!!!!

 

[bobblehead]

How about this 100w air pumps, however many watt fans, X watts in AC, X watts in dehui, X watts in slippage (tv, stero, microwave, etc.).

A real measure of productivity accounts for all these things (days WASTED not growing is left out by most but should NOT be).

So lets say you produce 16oz in a given month and your electric bill is 3,000 KWH (16x28.35 = 453.6grms). 453.6/3000 = .1512 grams per kilo watt hour.

If you claim to grow perpetually then the ratio above applies. If you are running one off grows your ratio doesn't really matter because maxing out your yield is ALWAYS the best choice no matter how much wattage it takes (because you get paid back way more than elec. costs).

I agree with hydrosun 100% on this one... you should take into account all the electric, not just the lamps. Atmospheric controls add up as well. It's more than I care to do, but doing the calculations is a real possibility to compute maximum efficiency.

 

[Rouge]

Well Anti, I guess two numbers is worth 2 thousand words but aren't you forgetting the denominator? It seems to me that 400 clones will occupy more space than 4 trees and would require more lighting. Therefore the wattage on the 400 clones would be greater than the 4 trees. Since the wattage is in the denominator, the 2 to 1 advantage in favor of the 400 clones would evaporate completely.
Why does this seem like a slow motion movie that I've seen before or bait that I've just taken?
Since all the variables including grow area, nutes, lights, labor, security, etc, can be translated into dollars, maybe the best ratio is gram per dollar -ie -how much does it cost to produce.

 

[CLOWD11]

Well Anti, I guess two numbers is worth 2 thousand words but aren't you forgetting the denominator? It seems to me that 400 clones will occupy more space than 4 trees and would require more lighting. Therefore the wattage on the 400 clones would be greater than the 4 trees. Since the wattage is in the denominator, the 2 to 1 advantage in favor of the 400 clones would evaporate completely.
Why does this seem like a slow motion movie that I've seen before or bait that I've just taken?
Since all the variables including grow area, nutes, lights, labor, security, etc, can be translated into dollars, maybe the best ratio is gram per dollar -ie -how much does it cost to produce.

Good point.
We should also consider factoring in the price of carbon offset taxes which currently under review in Australia ranging between $20-30 a tonne. < tonne of carbon, not pot lol
The wattage used to run a/c units would blow most gpw figures clean outa the water. ie, dude sets up room with 4x 1000w lights then has to install a 6Kw a/c for cooling.

 

[Anti]

Well Anti, I guess two numbers is worth 2 thousand words but aren't you forgetting the denominator? It seems to me that 400 clones will occupy more space than 4 trees
and would require more lighting.

You didn't read carefully. I said "assume for argument that 4 plants in a 10x10 will yield the same as 400 plants in a 10x10."

Since all the variables including grow area, nutes, lights, labor, security, etc, can be translated into dollars, maybe the best ratio is gram per dollar -ie -how much does it cost to produce.

This is an admirable suggestion and the one that makes the most sense to me. Now we just have to convince everyone else.

 

[headiez247]

This makes me think of a guy who was basically my hero when I started growing research years back, I feel ashamed that I forgot his username, but he is known for the pic of him holding up a branch that basically covers his entire leg. His shit was un fucking real. All single baseball bat trees i think it was under 8k, real simple set up in his garage. Ak48 i think? He wasn't vertical tho.

 

[VerdantGreen]

Example #1: 4 plants in a 10x10, each plant vegging for 2 months + flower of 65 days = 62+65=131 days

Example #2: 400 plants in a 10x10, each plant having been a freshly rooted clone + flower of 65 days = 0+65=65 days.

You can run Example #1 (131 days per cycle) 2.78 times per year.

You can run Example #2 (65 days per cycle) 5.61 times per year.

Let's assume for argument sake that we already did a lot of experimenting and found that 4 large plants in a 10x10 room bring in 2 lbs. (1/2 lbs per plant.) Let's also assume for this discussion that you can get the same 2 lbs off of 400 straight-from-clone-no-veg tiny plantlets.If your 4 large plants yielded the same as your 400 tiny plantlets (2 lbs.) then each plantlet would have yielded 2.27g each.*

*It doesn't matter what the real world yield is. I personally yield more than 8g per un-vegged clone in my own system, so 2.27g would be some pitiful looking plants. What matters is that if you are comparing a room's maximum potential yield and you dialed it in with large or small plants, you can do more cycles per year if you use the smaller plants and eliminate vegging.


Ok. So here's where the year calculation comes in.

In Example #1, you can only do this 2.78 times a year for a total yearly yield of 2lbs x 2.78 cycles = 5.56 lbs per year.

In Example #2, you can do this 5.61 times per year for a total yearly yield of 2lbs x 5.61 cycles = 11.22 lbs per year.

So even if we ignore things like separate veg areas, etc. we can see that by using many smaller un-vegged plants that we can achieve a considerably higher yield.

This is all DHF is saying.

Correct me if I'm wrong, D.

hi anti, its early in the morning here, but afaics your example is only correct if you are vegging the plants in situ. if you vegged them somewhere else then your yearly yield would be the same for both.
also there is a lot of shades of difference between clones and trees. most of my plants get vegged for 2-4 weeks and then yield 3-4 ounces on my scrogs - somewhere inbetween.
and as someone pointed out, getting a mum to make loads of clones needs light too. saying you could just buy the clones is a bit of a cheat unless you factor in the cost against the leccy and space it would have taken to do your own.

another thing i would point to is that just rooted clones can take a bit longer to flower than vegged plants - because flowering is delayed whilst the root system establishes up to a point - thats true for soil anyway.

DHF was saying that 'plant numbers dictate yield... period'

i was saying that many other things also go towards dictating yield.
eg changing genetics can double your yield. no -one is going to disagree with me on that are they??

i have a question about hydro - is it possible to veg plants somewhere else or do you have to do it in the same 'unit' as you flower?
obviously in soil, plants can be vegged up in small pots under small lights where they dont take up much space or leccy. maybe not into huge trees but certainly to a place where they will make big plants.
VG

 

[laylow]

another thing i would point to is that just rooted clones can take a bit longer to flower than vegged plants - because flowering is delayed whilst the root system establishes up to a point - thats true for soil anyway.VG

I grow in all types of medium including soil and my sea of green straight to flower flat gardens finish up quicker than if I'm growing trees.....

 

[VerdantGreen]

hi laylow - i dont grow trees i do scrog. i find that just rooted clones tend to act like juvenile seed plants for a week or so, even to the point of going back to having opposite nodes rather than alternate. i think rootspace and genetics are both a factor in this too. i find that if i repot as i put plants into flower they tend to grow/stretch veg-like for a bit longer before budding up than if the roots have already filled out the pot before they are flipped.
just like tomatoes will set their first flowers quicker if you delay repotting them until the first truss has set.

so many variables...

VG

 

[DHF]

Trust me when I say that every last bit of power useage was factored into my costs per location , but I grew in empty houses in the process of remodeling em on a yearly basis.......

Once the work was finished and I`d grown my ass off for that yearly period , the house had made enough to be paid for.....in a yr.......

2 flip rooms side by side a month apart in age , flippin on and off every 12 hrs , gave up 72 lbs thereabouts per location "per yr"
runnin Heath`s rack`s the last 3 yrs I grew before shutdown......

The previous ebb and flow bucket flip rooms the 5 yrs before that only pulled 60 lbs per yr from each location , and here`s what I want everyone ta try and wrap their heads around......

The vertical racks took 64 plants per room for 98 oz harvey`s , as to where the ebb and flow bucket rooms only took 35 , but never went over 5 lbs ever.....with any genetics.....it`s plant numbers guys......I`m just sayin....

Heath uses Aqua/Waterfarms for his "mum" setups to feed all his production rooms , and BlueHaze showed me how explosive veg growth could be done with DTW coco in 5 gal buckets......

I had 4 locations for a total of 512 plants runnin continuously , and I took 100`s of cuts every 2 weeks to pick the best of the best and cull the rest......

My point being that after cutting lets say 200 cuts off 1 plant , after 2 weeks time I`d go back and they looked like they`d never been touched......so...

Mom production/clone area`s rooting/and pre-veg areas with T-5`s ta stack nodes and get em ready for the bloom room`s had no bearing on the bloom rooms that ran 24/7/365 , and the cost of the separate areas ta keep the bloom rooms runnin was babyshit......

I ran 1800 watt rooms side by side at each location with ALL the bells and whistles for PERFECT environment , and my power bills were never more than $ 250 per month...ever......for over 12 yrs runnin flip rooms.....

I was 1 of the first folks ta join this site back in `04 when Krusty got banned from the other big sites that went away , so after deleting my account here more times than I can recall due to ignorant people that KNEW what they were talkin about , but really didn`t , I bowed out gracefully and went elsewhere......on numerous occasions...

Point being my post count here`s prolly in the 10`s of 1000`s if actually archived and counted , but I`m a well respected member of at least 20 other invite only sites , and I don`t haveta be here.......

I choose ta be here ta help folks less knowledgeable than myself since my med site members have had access to mine and Heath`s knowledge for many yrs , and as an older more experienced crowd , they don`t need ta know what`s fallen through the cracks with all the old sites that`re dead and gone.....

That pic you`re speaking of Headie`s is SoQuick`s and 1 of Krusty`s old arch enemies , but 1 helluva grower.....He tried ta pawn it off as a top cola off 1 of his plants and Krusty went wild , when in fact it was really just a 3' plant with single cola tendencies....LOL...

So in summary.....As my plant counts went up , so did my yields......and without vegtimes factored into the flower cycle with bloom rooms never shuttin down yr after yr , I was ableta maximize my "grams per watt" per month , per cycle , per yr.....

Hope that makes sense now , and Heath`s racks with rooted cuts directly into 12/12 and packed side by side , above and below the bare bulbs are what made many folks realize that in fact "plant numbers dictate yield".......after strains , environments being monocropped and dialed , with all other factors falling into line and taken account of......

Clowd......I assure you I can calculate your off the wall query , but why would I want to ?....Nothing positive in your bullshit response , only wanting to stir up shit that`s really got zero ta do with my original post.....

Peace.....DHF...........

 

[Bobby Stainless]

^Truth.

/thread.

 

[turbolaser4528]

^^^for real ! +Rep

I hope one-day I will be a legend like DHF, SoQuick or Heath. I'm still young, got plenty of time, just gotta get to a more friendly state


Yes, in the end, plant numbers dictate yield. You can only yield so much out of a single plant..

Safe growing, thanks for sharing DHF, you know we all soak in your posts ! hhaha

 

[mg75]

unless you are outdoors growing 4+ pound trees. plant numbers indoors always dictate yield. yes you can manipulate your garden with LST, SCROG, etc...

nothing beats ebb & flow tables with high plant numbers. i know people getting 48oz per 1000watt 4x4 ebb and flow tables using GH 3 part.

 

[VerdantGreen]

nice post DHF, it sounds like you were really nailing those grows, great system too as part of doing up a house. i should tell my property developer friend about that

.... "plant numbers dictate yield".......after strains , environments being monocropped and dialed , with all other factors falling into line and taken account of......

......Peace.....DHF...........

i think thats a more complete explanation of what dictates yield. i would still maintain that plant manipulation and training such as scrog can get very high yields out of lower plant densities - but i would also acknowledge that the level of training that i do in my current grows would not be practical if scaled up to large commercial operations.
cheers
VG

 

[Hydrosun]

i have a question about hydro - is it possible to veg plants somewhere else or do you have to do it in the same 'unit' as you flower?

It is very easy to move hydro plants from system to system and room to room if you design it right. I use double 5gal bucket in bucket and a 10" net pot. If I need to move the plant I just disconnect the air line (air stone in top 5gal bucket under net pot), pick up the inner 5gal bucket place it in another bucket (so water doesn't leak from the roots every where) then walk the plant to the new set up. Pull out inner 5gal bucket and drop into new system. Reconnect air line.

 

[allouez]

unless you are outdoors growing 4+ pound trees. plant numbers indoors always dictate yield.

Which leads me to ask... why not grow 4+ pound trees? It sounds like fun!