Kentucky moves towards decriminalization

[Madrus Rose]

http://control.mpp.org/site/MessageViewer?em_id=53964.0&dlv_id=44644

During the floor debate, legislators discussed passing a “Phase 2” bill next year, and we can all work hard together to encourage lawmakers to reduce the penalty for marijuana possession to a non-criminal fine, as is the case in Mississippi and Ohio. Thank you to everyone who took action!

The end is near for prohibition.

Go "Blue Grass" State of Kentucky !

And this is absolutely what is reasonably being talked about finally , ending the effects of Prohibition thru decriminalization, which all the lessons learned from Alcohol Prohibition seemed to have been ignored . The fact that since Prohibition was repealed there was only a marked decrease in every following decade of criminal violence until the rise of Drug Prohibition which has started up the trend all over again .

As posted on another thread some info searched out just today , was amazed to read that in Kentucky's neighbor state of Virginia the costs of underage Alcohol abuse alone , is estimated to be over $1.2Bil yearly, mainly due to car crashes & violence .
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=4277565#post4277565

To look at Prohibition & Criminalization vs Decriminalization &/or legal sales & taxation rationally one could use the model of California sales & taxing of tobacco, where cigarette sales in California hav been declining dramatically in the last decade , but still represents nearly $1bil dollars in revenue . The federal per-pack tax on cigarettes increased by 62 cents last year , bringing the total tax to $1.01 per pack. In California, a package of cigarettes now costs an average of $5.09.

"The board estimated that 972 million packs of cigarettes were sold in California last year, down from 2.8 billion packs sold in 1980 . California's tobacco tax revenue helps finance health education programs, early childhood development, breast cancer research and other state programs During the most recent fiscal year, the state received $839 million in cigarette tax revenue, down from the $913 million it collected in the previous fiscal year"

The most recent stats & studies of drug & Alcohol use among teenagers inidcate a decline in the traditional binge drinking & more inclined to use MJ..and for this alone the legislators & Feds should be excstatic, imo, for no Laws ever passed or maintained have ever diswayed any youth from experimenting from the use of either of the above.... well maybe with the exception of the era of "Reefer Madness" maybe that still is alive & well in some states unfortunately .

The assumption that decriminalized or legal regulated/taxed MJ sales is going to lead to an increase in useage seems defeated by the huge declining cigarette use stats from previous decades (972mil packs last year vs 2.8bil packs in 1980! ) above which could be largely due to Health Education to the dangers of tabacco largely funded by the tobaco tax itself .

Illicit Drug and Alcohol Use Declining in Teens, Misuse of Prescription Painkillers Increasing
http://www.straightfromthedoc.com/5...se_of_prescription_painkillers_increasing.php

SURVEY: Marijuana use rising, alcohol use declining among U.S. teens Published: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 (UofMichigan)
http://www.dailytribune.com/articles/2010/12/14/news/doc4d07bf5d1b255056892888.txt

 

[Madrus Rose]

In conclusion for decriminalization &/or legalization & taxation ....

Better to have moneys for State Funded Health Education that improves young adult's awareness as in the case of tobacco taxes used for , not Prohibition & incarceration & traumatization? 1000's times better to have kids experimenting with Pot than Alcohol which costs all the States of America, literally Billions of dollars each year . And Prohibition does not & has not worked ever in the history of the US ...why not regulate & tax then fund education ?

Not to mention the savings of maintaining large numbers of incarcerated people for non violent crime as this ... but on this am not sure that the states ,courts & law enforcement agencies are not making money thru Prison Industrial Complexes & Prohibition Politics ?

* This is a major question ,imo, for the largest current industry in many states is the building staffing & maintaining of prisons...and as we all know the stats the majority of people in jails are for non violent drug charges like MJ . They can't build prisons fast enough in Cali or the Northwest ....prison industry largest in Ore currently

 

[Fuzz420]

So there finally going to make it official. I know cops have been ticketing for simple possession for years now. It may be the officers discretion but i still dont know anyone to be arrested for just a simple possession in a very long time.Most cops Ive ran into in the bluegrass dont care about weed. With pills and crystal meth runinng wild here, WEED AINT SHIT. Im just surprised our backwards ass state is even considering it.

 

[Rednick]

Besides, in the grand scheme of things...agricultural mj would blow the revenues of medical or recreational mj away...probably by 100 fold.

It would be interesting to see a study.
Estimates for MJ in the US are 12-36 billion/year.
There would be many uses for industrial hemp.
Check out Georgia Pacifics Annual '05 SEC filings.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/41077/000119312505039002/d10k.htm#INDEX

GP is a 20 billion dollar a year company in '05, last year I could find a 10-K filing.

 

[Baba Ku]

When we look at all the potential uses of hemp, it is easy to see how it will be a financial leader. It is also easy to see why the competing concerns have waged war on it.

 

[thingshappening]

See, your biased politicizing of the issue sort of lessens the importance of what you are bringing. "Only in liberal states where the populous actually gives a shit..."
I'm sorry, but after that I can't see much worth in what you provided. More divisive shit, basically. Shit that isn't really the way it is. If you think this is a political issue, you'd be dead wrong.
You may find yourself in Erlanger and at the mercy of some bubba cop, but that is hardly the way things are as a whole.
You do realize that there are bigger places in KY than Newport, yes?

Sorry if it offends your sensibilities, but it's a fact: liberal states and conservative states both support medical marijuana en masse, but only liberal states get shit done. That's not an opinion, Baba. When we get pissed, we march, barage the local news, and make a stink. Conservative states march to their O'Reilly message boards and cry to their wives. Again: this truth is reflected in the legislation, not mere political opinion.

And if you think that the revenues from fines and such override what it costs to house a non-violent drug offender...I would say that your thoughts are at least consistently misguided.

Of course disco found that funny, as he is another divider.

You're conflating monies that can't be conflated. We need to delineate something: the difference between money in the hands of powerful individuals vs the money that will benefit the tax payer. of course it costs the tax payer more to lock up a cannabis user. But the local judges and pigs couldn't give two shits about that. They care about how their numbers look relative to the rest of the state (and the country) so as to reallocate funds locally for their initiatives, retirement packages, and laundering opportunities.

I'm no hard-line partisan liberal, baba. I just recognize the way legalization has unfolded.

 

[Baba Ku]

Your recognition skills need work...that is the problem.
lol...you think the left are the ones that "raise hell" and "make a stink" over issues? I know that the willing accomplices of the left wing always try to portray them as you have...but the truth of things is most often not what is being shown.

I tell you what, you take all the demonstrators the left had this year...include all the labor loons hanging out at the state house in WIsc. (including the 13 cowardly legislators who showed us all just what they are about by running and hiding instead of doing the job they were elected to do) and all the other protest marches the left sponsored all around the nation...and add them all up.
Now, see if the numbers equal the numbers brought about by the TEA party protests.
It's not even remotely close. You are showing me that your recognition skills are blinded by your left wing dividing glasses.

lol...yeah, the left really gets shit done alright. Just like those in WI who are a lot of chicken shits...Indiana left wing legislators also took que from those in WI and decided it much better to run and hide out of state than to actually legislate and vote as they were elected by the people to do.
See, the left wing mantra is "Win at all costs...no matter what or how" and they find that to be a justifiable stance. They feel they are always right no matter what, and if they can't convince others, they simply pick up their toys and stomp off crying and mad.
Yeah, they really get shit done.

The left is the most divisive bunch we have in America.
And IMO the main reason is ignorance, pure and simple.

 

[thingshappening]

Your recognition skills need work...that is the problem.
lol...you think the left are the ones that "raise hell" and "make a stink" over issues? I know that the willing accomplices of the left wing always try to portray them as you have...but the truth of things is most often not what is being shown.

I tell you what, you take all the demonstrators the left had this year...include all the labor loons hanging out at the state house in WIsc. (including the 13 cowardly legislators who showed us all just what they are about by running and hiding instead of doing the job they were elected to do) and all the other protest marches the left sponsored all around the nation...and add them all up.
Now, see if the numbers equal the numbers brought about by the TEA party protests.
It's not even remotely close. You are showing me that your recognition skills are blinded by your left wing dividing glasses.

lol...yeah, the left really gets shit done alright. Just like those in WI who are a lot of chicken shits...Indiana left wing legislators also took que from those in WI and decided it much better to run and hide out of state than to actually legislate and vote as they were elected by the people to do.
See, the left wing mantra is "Win at all costs...no matter what or how" and they find that to be a justifiable stance. They feel they are always right no matter what, and if they can't convince others, they simply pick up their toys and stomp off crying and mad.
Yeah, they really get shit done.

The left is the most divisive bunch we have in America.
And IMO the main reason is ignorance, pure and simple.

Baba, You took this discussion from a recognition of political ideologies relative to quazi-legalization success and morphed it into angry socioeconomic tirade about current events in education.

I'm assuming this is because you feel some kind of cultural solidarity towards your state and ideology, and you got emotional. I understand that. I do. But you cannot dispute this truth, baba: your conservative state brothers also support medical marijuana, yet you do nothing but sit on your collective hands and cry like children about how wrong it all is.

Where is the conservative initiative of medical marijuana in, say, Texas? Florida? What about Kansas? Oh, that's right: conservative states have the harshest laws in the country. Of the the 15 states with medical marijuana, almost all are Democratic. Within those states, the initiatives and local drives to put the legislation(s) into motion are (almost, literally) universally democratic. Face reality, baba: your tea-party friends are scared of that damned devils weed and them damn book learners talkin about evolution and not jesus, praise his name.

That's mockery, but not divisive rhetoric, as you call it; a recognition of the reality (and you can't say I'm reinventing reality, baba. Do a Google. You and I know both know that liberals are behind almost every medical marijuana initiative in the country).

I mock because I care. I have no political allegiance to the left, and I'm sad that lives are ruined due to medical marijuana apathy amongst conservatives who support it. I'm a registered independent, and am conservative about many things. If conservatives in your states were against medical marijuana, fine. But they aren't. You guys support it en masse. But you don't elect representatives who care about the issue. That is lazy, sloppy, apathetic, and cowardly.

I suggest moving your anger away from those who are succeeding in the fight and direct it towards your peers who talk a big game, then go re-elect prohibitions in droves, with ZERO worthwhile grassroots efforts to speak of.

 

[thingshappening]

Finally, I'll leave it at this. I'm a young person in my twenties. In college I had the degrading task of running shifts at Wendy's to pay my bills. I didn't sell weed or make any money off of it. I merely had friends who had their lives ruined by marijuana laws, and it impacted me profoundly. I gave up a FUCKLOAD of money (relative to my salary); consider, as a broke-ass college kid, giving up half what you pay in rent per month in advocacy. I took to the streets and protested with friends. I organized online. I convinced my mother to talk to her powerful union about the issue. I convinced my father to write a letter to a friend, who was and is a local politician.

I am an activist. and I'm proud as shit of the work I've done on medical marijuana, and am thrilled to see some success in the state I worked so hard in, and for all the right reasons.

And from this disposition, I have no problem mocking and degrading lazy stoners in states a few "below" mine geographically who sit around cry about how fucked up the system is, yet do nothing.

Sorry bro, I fight the good fight every day. I have no time for pussies who live in a democracy and are too lazy and cynical to get involved in changing it. And that is exactly what the situation is in the South, and almost all conservative states. A majority of you guys are in favor of medical marijuana, and you have virtually zero collective movement. Pathetic.

 

[Baba Ku]

Fuzz seems to see what I have seen.
But, apparently you see it differently, as apparent from your first post.

Activism? Have you looked at my signature area?
The number one advocate of decriminalization of MJ in the State of KY is NO liberal. Never has been and never will be.

BTW...I like how you equate TEA party to some sort of religious organization, or perhaps all the members are hard core southern baptists or something. That is a great example of the ignorance that abounds today...especially with our youth.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Ku, thingshappening proved his point. He's talking about (personal) activism and you point to a sig line.

The way I hear it, GR is off the marijuana bandwagon and instead advocates legal hemp. Something about the third rail of pot derailing his political aspirations. I think I read you acknowledging as much.

So suggesting you have the preeminent champion in your corner is only as good as the plank that seems to have been removed from the platform.

 

[Baba Ku]

The plank has not been removed.
There are many, many more issues that states are concerned with than any one single issue. No, there are no candidates that are basing their platforms on the issue of MJ reform, nor would anyone who would actually take on such a stance and run at the statehouse would soon fall short. In fact, they probably would be seen as the loon fringe and not even be acknowledged by the media.

Now...how far will that go? How far has it ever gone?
To think, or even suggest, that Gatewood has dropped marijuana from his platform would be ignorant of the facts. The only thing you can point to, Disco is the fact that someone pointed out that he has omitted a good bit of his mention of MJ in his website campaigning. And the fact is that industrial hemp is about all he touches on within the pages of that site.

To make out like that is all the evidence one needs to see that he has dropped MJ from his platform, is...well...it's very typical disco douchebaggery.

How many folks would be elected governor of ANY state if they were the MJ Candidate?

If the health and welfare of our state isn't taken care of, then the single issue of MJ is but a moot fart in the wind.

I don't know why I even waste time debating you...it turns into your 5 page replies of one liners trying to pick my post apart sentence by sentence...and frankly I get sick and tired of seeing your ignorance.
Thing is...if you weren't on some sort of a trolling tirade to find some sort of fault with me personally, you wouldn't have even skulked into this thread.
Get a life and a clue.

 

[FistedSister]

Kentucky moves towards decriminalization

go bluegrass and fried chicken !!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

The plank has not been removed.
There are many, many more issues that states are concerned with than any one single issue.

Sure there are. Like, can he govern?

No, there are no candidates that are basing their platforms on the issue of MJ reform, nor would anyone who would actually take on such a stance and run at the statehouse would soon fall short. In fact, they probably would be seen as the loon fringe and not even be acknowledged by the media.

But but... you just posted he's the number one activist. Could it be that the state branch of NORML and dedicated decrim lobbies have to deal with the same conflicts of interest? Who's behind the active decrim efforts in your state? Is GR any part of it? If not, I'd say GR has the conservative flavor.

Now...how far will that go? How far has it ever gone?
To think, or even suggest, that Gatewood has dropped marijuana from his platform would be ignorant of the facts.

If the past is your future barometer, best wishes. Maybe I could quote your previous comment that Gatewood ain't thumpin' the pot drum these days.

I visited GR's web site. If I'm ignorant of the facts, so are you and Gatewood.

Here's the web page...

http://gatewood.com/site/index.php

On that page, you'll see a tiny search box beneath the giant GR logo. Type in the following respectively...

cannabis
marijuana

No returns. You'll have to reference medical marijuana to get any hits. Here is the single marijuana proposal the number one activist supports:

(gatewood.com)At his news conference, he called for giving every high school graduate in Kentucky a $5,000 educational voucher and legalizing medical marijuana, which he said could save the state $500 million to $1 billion in medical costs each year.Galbraith, a marijuana advocate, said he doesn’t favor legalizing marijuana for recreational purposes. He said he would favor decriminalizing marijuana possession, as California has, meaning that violators could be cited and required to pay a fine but not subjected to arrest.

Since sixteen states have already accomplished what GR proposes, not to mention other active decrim efforts in the country, how's he the leading activist? Since he's not in office, he's not player. Unless of course his past reflects activism.

Charlie Sheen endorses dope but he ain't no activist.

I don't nitpick Gatewood, I'm countering your declaration that he's the number one... whatever. Based on the visitor comments, GR seems to appeal to the Libertarian. Based on what I've read at IC, some Libertarian leaners appear to focus on two planks. Pot and freedom. No real economics or governing flavor, other than tax cuts and freedom from... uh, taxes. There's also references of guns, gays and God so I recon they've got their bases covered.

IMO, GR is less an activist than Ron Paul. To be fair, GR hasn't a seat at the table, yet. While I was going to the trouble to bring you some information, I thought I'd see what his credentials are. You know, whether he's got the goods to govern. What appears to top his qualifications is the fact he's a perennial candidate for office.

In fact, RP has co-sponsored cannabis bills (plural). Bills that were sponsored by Barny Frank. In other words, Frank's the activist and RP actively followed. Otherwise he'd sponsor his own bills. But RP isn't just a celeb-status endorsement.

I have no clue whether Gatewood is as Libertarian flavored as Ron Paul. Based on the visitor comments, apparently a few believe they're first cousins, politically.

In close, it appears I've delivered enough info to prevent you from declaring I'm ignorant of the facts. Alas, dogmatic tendencies die hard.

You'd think the peep that sports a political campaign slogan would make more than baseless assertions and bring some facts about ol' Gatester. Who knows? Some of us pot smokers might contribute to his campaign. But after browsing his web site, GR appears to be riding the wave as opposed to generating it.

So since you've got the facts, try exposing them. Emanation from your physiological being alone reflects opinion.

BTW, GR's own site reveals he's an advocate, not an activist.

 

[dagnabit]

i got an email from my local teachers union.
they are paying protesters 15.00 per hour. they dont seem to care if you believe in their cause or not as long as you hold the sign they provide for you.

this is the true face of liberal states "getting shit done"
astroturf

i guess the end justifies the means.

i just have a problem with the dishonesty of liberal "activism"

sit at home and play with your (insert idiot stereotype here) and pay the homeless to get pissed,march, barage the local news, and make a stink.

lest we forget the most powerful liberal in the country is STRONGLY opposed to ANY form of legalization or decrim.

 

[thingshappening]

i got an email from my local teachers union.
they are paying protesters 15.00 per hour. they dont seem to care if you believe in their cause or not as long as you hold the sign they provide for you.

this is the true face of liberal states "getting shit done"
astroturf

i guess the end justifies the means.

i just have a problem with the dishonesty of liberal "activism"

sit at home and play with your (insert idiot stereotype here) and pay the homeless to get pissed,march, barage the local news, and make a stink.

Thankfully, we don't need to take refuge in mere opinions.

We have facts.

Fact: Liberal states have passed medical marijuana laws in droves. Literally almost every bill or positive momentum shift in the United States was brought about by a Democratic politician, which proved politically viable via a Democratic voting base.

Fact: Conservative states have the harshest marijuana laws in the United States en masse.

Fact: A majority of citizens in most conservative states support medical marijuana.

Fact: There is almost no serious momentum in said conservative states towards acting on this belief.

Educated opinion, rooted in aforementioned facts on medical marijuana: Conservatives talk shit. Liberals act.

Pretty straightforward. This is easily fact-checked via www.google.com. I can draw a fuggin' bar graph if certain people are still confused.

 

[ddrew]

Yup on the last msnbc show they were saying kentucky would be the last state to do it.

Yep, that big fat ass cop said that, I remember.

Luckily he was just a fat wind bag with no bearing on the decision

 

[dagnabit]

Thankfully, we don't need to take refuge in mere opinions.

We have facts.

Fact: Liberal states have passed medical marijuana laws in droves. Literally almost every bill or positive momentum shift in the United States was brought about by a Democratic politician, which proved politically viable via a Democratic voting base.

Fact: Conservative states have the harshest marijuana laws in the United States en masse.

Fact: A majority of citizens in most conservative states support medical marijuana.

Fact: There is almost no serious momentum in said conservative states towards acting on this belief.

Educated opinion, rooted in aforementioned facts on medical marijuana: Conservatives talk shit. Liberals act.

Pretty straightforward if you're capable of reading.

i never said they didn't act...
on the contrary i pointed out they do act!
they pay well for others to act in their stead.

Fact: typing fact followed by a colon only makes your opinion more colonic

 

[dagnabit]

Yep, that big fat ass cop said that, I remember.

Luckily he was just a fat wind bag with no bearing on the decision

i laughed at that fucking swine when he aired..
illiterate,limited,primitive,inconsiderate piece of shit.

 

[thingshappening]

i never said they didn't act...
on the contrary i pointed out they do act!
they pay well for others to act in their stead.

Fact: typing fact followed by a colon only makes your opinion more colonic

I corrected a factually incorrect statement regarding the momentum of cannabis legalization, and you felt it necessary to relay some bizarre story about an email from teachers unions? I guess in an effort to belittle the vast, life-changing, life-saving accomplishments of liberal-based marijuana advocacy?

The activists in these (almost) exclusively liberal states and counties did all the work on their own, and subsequently reap the rewards.

People don't even see or feel the grip partisanship has on them. We have members living in states where they could be sentenced to decades in prison at any given moment due to pure voter apathy and intellectual sloppiness. Yet many of these same people feel obligated to give a strange, back-handed defense of their politicians and lazy fellow voters, whilst belittling the resounding success of advocates with a different ideology.

Very, very sad.

A closing story of my day today: as I write this, I'm smoking a roach on my buddies front porch in a very liberal, strongly pro marijuana city. Traffic is busy right now for some reason, and he lives on a main street. People are everywhere. A cop is currently a few blocks away. He's been there for a while, doing paperwork I guess. About 20 minutes ago, he drove by the house and nodded at my friend and I. We waived; with a fat, obvious joint in rotation! Whoops! We dun goofed! Must've been some good shit! No big deal. He waved back.

...Maybe, just maybe, you guys could learn a thing or two from these phony liberal activists, brother.