SUPERthrive additive

[Clackamas Coot]

spurr

I think that you misunderstood my post. I don't disagree with the effectiveness of any of the usual rooting agents - NAA, IAA, IBA, et al.

The banning of SurperThrive in a few states and several countries (last count I looked at was 25) is you can use any of the rooting agents you mentioned. No problem.

But you have to put it on the label. Period. And this isn't a 'Hippy Oregon' thing - even Oklahoma has banned SuperThrive. Not exactly a hot bed of liberal activists last time I checked.

As per NAA specifically, one of the grow store products uses NAA and I believe it's the Clonex brand. No problem selling it - it's right there on the label.

The issue isn't whether or not these agents aren't viable - it comes down to a public safety issue. Ingestion by a child or a pet and you tell the doctor "It's got secret stuff in it!" - pretty silly scenario.

Declare it and sell it. Pretty simple. Look for California to follow suit later this summer from prompting by CCOF and other groups.

CC

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I think it's listed on the Rootone label - Naphthaleneacetamide 0.20%

 

[Clackamas Coot]

I think it's listed on the Rootone label - Naphthaleneacetamide 0.20%

Yep

No problem buying and using it................

CC

 

[spurr]

spurr

I think that you misunderstood my post. I don't disagree with the effectiveness of any of the usual rooting agents - NAA, IAA, IBA, et al.

The banning of SurperThrive in a few states and several countries (last count I looked at was 25) is you can use any of the rooting agents you mentioned. No problem.

But you have to put it on the label. Period. And this isn't a 'Hippy Oregon' thing - even Oklahoma has banned SuperThrive. Not exactly a hot bed of liberal activists last time I checked.

As per NAA specifically, one of the grow store products uses NAA and I believe it's the Clonex brand. No problem selling it - it's right there on the label.

The issue isn't whether or not these agents aren't viable - it comes down to a public safety issue. Ingestion by a child or a pet and you tell the doctor "It's got secret stuff in it!" - pretty silly scenario.

Declare it and sell it. Pretty simple. Look for California to follow suit later this summer from prompting by CCOF and other groups.

CC

yes I did misunderstand your post(s), I thought in OR and/or WA there was some rule against selling NAA at all.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

yes I did misunderstand your post(s), I thought in OR and/or WA there was some rule against selling NAA at all.

No - that's why I don't play with the rooting products.



CC

 

[Baba Ku]

If your hydro store provides it's own brand of rooting hormone solution...guess what...
A dime to a dozen donuts they are using a concentration of ST for the mixture.
Don't think so?...take a wiff. (I was given the skinny on this tactic)

There are ingredients in ST that have been proven to aid in root development, so anyone claiming useless sure don't have much to go on.


You know, healthy plants usually don't show improvements with the addition of amendments and additives.
It's the distressed plants that must be assessed with such a product.
Oh wait...maybe folks are looking for a super duper plant and bud enlarger, and since that wasn't seen...the product must be shit?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Can you read? Not a single post in this thread purports enlarger.

One of the bigger complaints is product labeling, (or lack of it.)

 

[spurr]

If your hydro store provides it's own brand of rooting hormone solution...guess what...
A dime to a dozen donuts they are using a concentration of ST for the mixture.
Don't think so?...take a wiff. (I was given the skinny on this tactic)

There are ingredients in ST that have been proven to aid in root development, so anyone claiming useless sure don't have much to go on.


You know, healthy plants usually don't show improvements with the addition of amendments and additives.
It's the distressed plants that must be assessed with such a product.
Oh wait...maybe folks are looking for a super duper plant and bud enlarger, and since that wasn't seen...the product must be shit?

The only thing in ST that offers *real* benefit is NAA (for root growth), unless ST also contains TRIA. If all ST contains besides NAA is vitamins and enzymes then it's only the NAA that will offer benefit because in root zone vitamins and enzymes are quickly denatured by microbes and acids from roots. And besides, exogenous applied vitamins at root zone offers little-to-no proven benefits, even if not denatured. The smell of ST is from the B-1 and other possible vitamins...

 

[spurr]

One of the bigger complaints is product labeling, (or lack of it.)

^^^ yea that.

 

[Baba Ku]

Rooting hormone is used when there are no roots, yes?

 

[spurr]

Or when there are roots and you want more roots.

 

[headband 707]

The only thing in ST that offers *real* benefit is NAA (for root growth), unless ST also contains TRIA. If all ST contains besides NAA is vitamins and enzymes then it's only the NAA that will offer benefit because in root zone vitamins and enzymes are quickly denatured by microbes and acids from roots. And besides, exogenous applied vitamins at root zone offers little-to-no proven benefits, even if not denatured. The smell of ST is from the B-1 and other possible vitamins...

Agreed but I have always like this shit and yeah it smell just like vit "B" peace out Headband707

 

[foomar]

The website is well worth a look , they are not shy about claiming its worth , strange that on a google search the magority of hits are canna related given its seemingly vast application range of almost everything.

It may have had some merit in 1940 but i doubt it still compares against commercial products developed since for specific industries and plant types , given the vast increase in knowledge since then.

Its priced and UK retailed as a point of sale impulse purchase , people often treat healthy plants with no reason or hope a simple few drops of magic will fix underlying problems , more feelgood for the grower than the plant.

They are clutching at straws by this stage ........

8. Enables better, more efficiently satisfactory control of new gardening occupation, as taught to young men in correctional institutions, to encourage them successfully in seeking legal occupations, thereby improving the social environment and reducing crime pollution.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

spurr

You're a logical guy and I've read enough of your posts to know that you have more than a passing understanding and knowledge of the horticulture industry.

Just consider the 2 behemoth players in this industry - California & Oregon. Well over a billion dollars a year just for these 2 production regions. That isn't considering Florida, Washington and boutique operations in states that have specific weather patterns to produce speciality plants - you'd probably want to grow the jojoba plant in Arizona and not Vermont for example.

So with all of these plants being grown and the basic fact that the faster a grower can move that Arbor Vitae to commercial size to sit out in front of your local Home Depot, you'd think that in 70 years there would be huge repository of study for this product.

Even setting that aside, if it worked then in 70 years someone, anyone, whatever - there should be a plethora of products out there (commercial & consumer) with some reference about it being 'better and improved over Superthrive'

Here's my favorite cite from several web sites quoting a press release from Dr. Thompson:

"SUPERthrive was developed by Dr. John A. A. Thomson. He was the first chemist to receive the National Lawn & Garden Marketing & Distribution Association's Lifetime Achievement Award in 2006."

Faint praise indeed - a Marketing Award

Touching isn't it?

CC

 

[spurr]

spurr

You're a logical guy and I've read enough of your posts to know that you have more than a passing understanding and knowledge of the horticulture industry.

Just consider the 2 behemoth players in this industry - California & Oregon. Well over a billion dollars a year just for these 2 production regions. That isn't considering Florida, Washington and boutique operations in states that have specific weather patterns to produce speciality plants - you'd probably want to grow the jojoba plant in Arizona and not Vermont for example.

So with all of these plants being grown and the basic fact that the faster a grower can move that Arbor Vitae to commercial size to sit out in front of your local Home Depot, you'd think that in 70 years there would be huge repository of study for this product.

Even setting that aside, if it worked then in 70 years someone, anyone, whatever - there should be a plethora of products out there (commercial & consumer) with some reference about it being 'better and improved over Superthrive'

Here's my favorite cite from several web sites quoting a press release from Dr. Thompson:Faint praise indeed - a Marketing Award

Touching isn't it?

CC

Hey Coot,

I'm not sure I follow; I was not writing about ST per say, more so about NAA. I have used ST and found it does increase root growth of healthy root systems but that's all, and it's efficacy doing so was not great, but was noticeable. I found the same when using IBA/NAA mix too, but with much more noticeable root growth on whole roots systems.

I think judging whether a product works or does not work, by potential competitors not trying to compete with the product directly tells us little about the product's efficacy. Many companies sell NAA in rooting products for vegetative cuttings and for whole root systems too. And many companies sell vitamin B-1 supplements, even though they are a (near) total waste if applied to root zone.

All I am writing is that NAA does 'work' and ST has NAA, and I have seen ST 'work' to increase root mass. I think ST does not provide enough NAA when used at 1.25 ml per gallon, which is why I write it does not work well enough. That said, I do not use ST any longer, I have not used ST for a few years. I do not use NAA or IBA as a rule, for whole root systems, but I have tested them for cloning and whole root systems, and they do work from what I have seen.

I agree the marketing of ST is lame and boarders on childish, but in the end NAA does work to increase root mass.

I think you and I agree on all points, with the exception that you seem to claim ST does not work for anything, and I claim it does work for increasing root mass of whole root systems (albeit ST does not work well enough IMO).

 

[Clackamas Coot]

spurr

Yep - we're misunderstanding each other.

I'll stipulate the following:

1. NAA is an effective rooting hormone. Like you it's one that I choose not to use and rely on the hormones found in marine algae in conjunction with aloe vera extracts. No big deal.

2. SUPERThrive may be an effective rooting agent. The other claims are in question.

3. Their products will appear on the shelves when they simply list the ingredients like any other serious company.

If it had been my decision here in Oregon, I would have waited for the de-listing until Dr. Thompson. He's almost 100 years old - pretty harmless. It was never a situation where there was a huge market demand for his products - or at least here. None of the wholesale suppliers carried it and very few of the retail nurseries bothere with it with the exception of the indoor garden operations.

CC

 

[thinman]

have used with the hope of growing better buds. have never noticed any difference. there are better products available to prevent transplant shock and encourage rooting from cuttings. why bother with it?

 

[Dr.Dank]

well I talk to my buddy that I was helping trim yesterday, He also been using superthive with great results..... hes gonna post some pics that will make you guys listen... hehe

 

[SKAGITMAGIC]

I'll be watching for the pics Doc.

 

[designer]

Great thread. I have never done any serious research. I feel that there had to be some validity to the claims or it would be blatantly illegal to make them. Further, I thought places like this would reveal the truth and save me the hard research. It don't hurt the plants, but probably don't help. The claims are wild on the label and it reminded me of snake oil as well.

My father takes these supplements for his joints (not the smoking kind). It cost like $20 for a months supply. People like Larry King hawk this stuff. I asked him, "So dad, does that stuff work?" He said, "Well as bad as I feel, I don't know, but I hate to stop and find out." See it takes a couple weeks for this stuff to build up in your system. So he don't quit for the fear that he will feel even worse.

Nice to see this thread. I love having bottles of Super Thrive around for the comedy.