What is "wrong" with dead roots?

[mostnonymouse]

I've seen a few people asking how to speed the breakdown of dead roots in soil or simply pulling all their dead roots and composting them. It would seem to me though, that because most of the bacteria and fungi in the soil food web live with/on/around these roots, that a freshly chopped bunch of dying roots would make an even better soil inoculation than a store bought counterpart, or even perhaps a compost tea. Wouldn't the bacteria and fungi covering these roots be the most dominant and best-adapted/suited to your growing environment, plants, and soil?

 

[mad librettist]

I've seen a few people asking how to speed the breakdown of dead roots in soil or simply pulling all their dead roots and composting them. It would seem to me though, that because most of the bacteria and fungi in the soil food web live with/on/around these roots, that a freshly chopped bunch of dying roots would make an even better soil inoculation than a store bought counterpart, or even perhaps a compost tea. Wouldn't the bacteria and fungi covering these roots be the most dominant and best-adapted/suited to your growing environment, plants, and soil?

not really. the microbes breaking down your dead roots are not necessarily the ones that traded with them.

I do feel, however, that digesting the old roots is a good first step for "reüsing" soil. I thnk of it as giving the soil some exercise

 

[mostnonymouse]

That I understand, but would it not be beneficial in the scenario I've laid out where the roots from a fresh cut plant are used in a new planting/transplant?

 

[Scrappy4]

The next plants do not eat roots, they will utilize the results after the microbes have broken them down, though. Like I said in another thread, add some EWC to your dirt with root fragments, and in only a couple of weeks the root fragments will be history. It works well.......scrappy

 

[mad librettist]

That I understand, but would it not be beneficial in the scenario I've laid out where the roots from a fresh cut plant are used in a new planting/transplant?

both scenarios will get good results. composting separately is a matter of saving time and space.

I do think though, that breaking down material in place is superior to composting it apart, at least as far as conditioning the soil goes. There are on the other hand drawbacks to not having access to pure compost.

in a way you are absolutely right. let's take rhizobium and clover as an example. rhizobium is an anaerobe, and clover makes little anaerobic pouches called nodules in which rhizobium does so well it is able to supply the clover with 100% of its N once established.

If you have never had leguminous plants in a given soil sample, clover planted in it cannot conjure rhizobium from thin air. The bacterium just isn't around. Once established though, clover planted in the same spot will thrive even if you first kill all the clover in the patch and remove all trace of roots. So yes, bacteria are "passed on" from generation to generation, but that does not mean you need to compost your roots in place to pull it off.

 

[geopolitical]

If your mix is really "active" you can have this happen during a grow but there's a major issue. Mixes that alive are going to be actively consuming nutrients to fuel microbial/fungal growth. Fungi & bacteria don't give you a free ride, they need things like nitrogen too. Breakdown products can also cause pH swings, all sorts of fun stuff. Normally though you need months to have issues like this crop up, I rarely see it with cannabis, even with recycling soil.

 

[mostnonymouse]

Thanks guys. Awesome response mad...I'm on my phone but you're getting reps when I get home. I'm only 1/4 of the way through teaming w/ microbes

 

[jaykush]

Wouldn't the bacteria and fungi covering these roots be the most dominant and best-adapted/suited to your growing environment, plants, and soil?

totally beneficial, once you inoculate a plant with mycorrhizae fungi, all you have to do to keep it going for sure is take a bit of colonized root, cut it off and when you put rooted clones in soil, add it then, or for seedlings add it under the seed when you plant.

 

[Barahng]

totally beneficial, once you inoculate a plant with mycorrhizae fungi, all you have to do to keep it going for sure is take a bit of colonized root, cut it off and when you put rooted clones in soil, add it then, or for seedlings add it under the seed when you plant.

How exactly would you keep this root cutting alive before you plant the clone? Or is the fungi able to live a significant amount of time on a dead root.

 

[Blueshark]

If your mix is really "active" you can have this happen during a grow but there's a major issue. Mixes that alive are going to be actively consuming nutrients to fuel microbial/fungal growth. Fungi & bacteria don't give you a free ride, they need things like nitrogen too. Breakdown products can also cause pH swings, all sorts of fun stuff. Normally though you need months to have issues like this crop up, I rarely see it with cannabis, even with recycling soil.

Geo, great post. I was thinking I read where it could happen with vegatation breaking down. I keep about 30 hens but cannot till the coop stuff into the soil because of the nitrogen loss I would have. Garden would suck!!

 

[jaykush]

How exactly would you keep this root cutting alive before you plant the clone? Or is the fungi able to live a significant amount of time on a dead root.

im assuming you mean that IF you dont start clones before you kill off your "mother roots". if so im not sure on keeping them alive, never tried it. its always been fresh roots to go with fresh roots so inoculation happens asap. the method mentioned above is if you can do it fresh otherwise its not worth it imo. if your re using soil though once the host dies, the fungi sets spores in waiting for fresh root hosts. so you only have to inoculate once.

 

[greenmatter]

could you make a tea or ACT with old root balls? would they be good food in a worm bin?

 

[mad librettist]

they are great in the worm bin.

better yet, just throw some worms in your soil bin.


mindbender!

 

[mostnonymouse]

they are great in the worm bin.

better yet, just throw some worms in your soil bin.


mindbender!

I tried this with a few red worms after reading 3LB's article on reusing soil and haven't seen em since...pretty sure they've become plant food at this point! How much organic matter do they really need to thrive in soil? I plan on tossing some in on my next run, which I'll be mulching heavily.

 

[mad librettist]

just throw in some meals and they will feast. or biotone.

also, if you chop a male you can dry it, then crumble it and spread that on your soil. worms dig dried stuff.

Also, don't assume those worms are gone. try a sheet of wet cardboard on the surface. keep misting it.

 

[Blueshark]

I tried this with a few red worms after reading 3LB's article on reusing soil and haven't seen em since...pretty sure they've become plant food at this point! How much organic matter do they really need to thrive in soil? I plan on tossing some in on my next run, which I'll be mulching heavily.

Most, We had a bait store and we fed our nightcrawlers 'Michigan Peat'. They loved it, but don't use too much as it will raise your ph.

 

[SOTF420]

When I kill males I cut them up really good roots and all and compost into soil mix that females go into works perfect they love it.

 

[quadracer]

I've noticed mushrooms forming in old root balls that are left above ground over the winter. This species of mushroom isn't found in any products in the store, but is present in the soil around here. In fact it should be fruiting within the next couple of months.

 

[mad librettist]

wow quad that's healthy looking soil!

 

[Barahng]

im assuming you mean that IF you dont start clones before you kill off your "mother roots". if so im not sure on keeping them alive, never tried it. its always been fresh roots to go with fresh roots so inoculation happens asap. the method mentioned above is if you can do it fresh otherwise its not worth it imo. if your re using soil though once the host dies, the fungi sets spores in waiting for fresh root hosts. so you only have to inoculate once.

Gotcha, so the spores can stay dormant for a while.