Does brand matter with organics?

[SmokinErb]

I'm starting to put together a shopping list on the products I need for my soil mix, and then I didn't have the faintest clue where to start.

I can go to Walmart and pick up EWC, Bone and Blood meal, but everything I ever learned from growing with chemicals says to stay away from pretty much anything you can buy at walmart in terms of fertilizers.

So there stems my question - does brand matter? Quality means a lot to me, but paying for a name doesn't. There's just so much out there I don't know where to begin looking, so I read the "Pimp your organic fertilizer" thread.

It didn't help much, but it gave me a few brands to look at. I found a couple that had a larger line than just a couple of products:

Gaia Green - http://www.gaiagreen.com/products/retail-products.asp
Espoma -http://www.espoma.com/p_consumer/org_trad_overview.html

I'm guessing I could get everything I'd need from those two companies. Would anyone have a better suggestion? Or preferably an online source where I can make my purchases online all in one place?

Also, can Liquid Karma and Bio-tone be used at the same time, or are they basically the same thing?

 

[redneck shogun]

You may be putting the cart before the horse here. I would worry more about what is in it than what the name on it is or where you got it. I would advise keeping it simple at the start and never stop learning.

 

[SmokinErb]

No cart before the horse here! What I meant was just like. . . is some MG blood meal the same as Espoma dried blood? Are all Kelp meals the same? I didn't know if there were reputable brands that could be trusted with their product, and others that couldn't.

I've been doing more research and I feel like I've got little to worry about as I'm not getting any blends so much. Bio-tone and Liquid Karma should be it for the "fancy" stuff. I'm still trying to figure out if they're basically the same thing. Everything else is basic, bone, blood, kelp, rock phosphate, greensand, etc. Single-ingredient additives make me feel a little safer.

 

[B. Friendly]

I use gaia green
here's my soil receipe that needs only watering...
MY MIX: Amounts for 50 – 2gallon pots
3 parts peat 2.2cu.ft
3 parts perlite 100 Litre
3 parts coco 1 Brick
2 part potting soil 50Litre, 2 bags
1 part Gaia FERTILIZING SOIL CONDITIONER 4-4-2 30Litre Bag
1 part vermiculite 25Litre Bag
1 part mushroom compost 20Litre Bag
2Litres wormcasts, from Gaia 5-2Litre Bags
15 Parts x 4L(ice cream bucket to ration parts)= 60Litres x 5 mixes = 50 2gallon pots

To each 60 Litres I add:
225g Gaia 4-4-4 All Purpose 4g/litre = 225g’s @ 5 mixes = 1125g’s
(Add some extra Gaia All Purpose at flower, maybe as soil drench??)
160g Gaia Kelp Meal 3g/L = 160g’s @ 5 mixes = 800g’s
(Add some extra Gaia Kelp Meal at flower, maybe as soil drench??)
225g dolomite lime 4g/litre = 225g’s @ 5 mixes = 1125g’s
????56g GROW,Gaia Seabird guano 1g/litre= 56g’s @ 5 mixes = 280g’s
**Best to give Gaia Seabird Guano as a TEA due to ammonia content.
**If you do want to add Gaia Seabird Guano as a soil additive then let your pots sit for at least 10 days before planting babies.
225g FLOWER, Gaia High P guano 4g/L = 225g’s @ 5 mixes = 1125g’s
sulphate of potash magnesia????????????? For organic cal/mg
56g ?rock potash 1g/L (NOT Needed included in Gaia All Purpose) 280g’s 56g ?rock phosphate 1g/L (NOT Needed included in Gaia All Purpose) 280g’s
molasses at 1 teaspoon/gallon WEEKLY with water feeding.
and some water crystals (As needed, mainly for outdoor grows)
*Note: Do not over water! Do not let your soil completely dry out! Maintain moist but not soggy soil for happy healthy plants.
(28 bucks for a 50lb bag of calcium nitrate and 6 bucks for a 5lb bag of epsom salts and you have a lifetime supply of dry calmag.
i used this with ro water and flora nova bloom in coco at the rate of 100 ppm calcium nitrate and 50 ppm magnesium sulfate.
totally solves all calmag deficiency problems.
if you do use this combo mix the primary nutrient first, epsom second and the calcinit last.)

the bat guano amounts change a little with strain. for instance the Blueberry has less N guano in the mix - but that standard mix has worked for pretty much everything i have grown and i just refine it a little as i get strains dialled in.
feeding is often not necessary but i use Dynagro and some other nut’s every 10-14days’ish sometimes if i think they need it and molasses at 1 teaspoon/gallon weekly,
(from B.Friendly, best, cheapest mix I have ever seen!!) See his results for yourself!! http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=194145

Important:
Mix it really well, When you think it’s good, mix it some more!

 

[mad librettist]

Espoma is a NJ based company that makes very high quality amendments at a fair price. I use their bio-tone as a complete organic fert, replacing both bone and blood. Check out the ingredients list.

 

[redneck shogun]

I guess what I was trying to say was that while you are fretting about buying a brand name that is reputable you would be better off learning what exactly is in the product and whether you actually need it. For example I don't use bovine slaughter house products or commercial poultry manure regardless of what brand name is slapped on it.

 

[mad librettist]

biotone:

Derived from: Hydrolyzed Feather Meal, Pasteurized Poultry Manure, Cocoa
Meal, Bone Meal, Alfalfa Meal, Greensand, Humates, Sulfate of Potash, and
Sulfate of Potash Magnesia.

 

[smoketrichs]

I've been getting eb stone and dr. earth stuff from my local nursery.

 

[daheadies]

botanicare organic line and Canna organic line = GREAT PRODUCTS.. I would say that product line still matters because they balance PH and PPM's in their individual nute schedules..
I used to make up my own nutrients and mix my own soil, but then you really gotta watch ph and ppm. go w/ a good pre-made organic nute-schedule from a good company w/ some good pre-made soil (that has everything and more that you would put in homemade, i reccommend Roots Organics Soil) and you wont have to worry about ph and ppm..

If you strictly wanna feed through soil and wanna skip the liquid products, then still get a good premade soil (Roots organics or another good organic brand) and add bone meal and bat guano throughout the grow every week or every other week..

No need to make soil mix any more when brands specialize in just that..

 

[mad librettist]

No need to make soil mix any more when brands specialize in just that..

I like to keep my lips off the canna-industrial milk teat, and I make better soil than you can buy.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

B. Friendly

We don't get a lot of the Gaia Green products around here. What we do get from them is their Earthworm Castings, a Bat Guano and especially their Canadian Glacial Rock Dust.

The local organic farm store sold over 150 tons last year. Pretty amazing amount. Priced at about $11.00 per 50 lbs. and since it comes out of British Columbia mines that's probably the reason for the low price, i.e. not much in the way of transportation costs.

CC

 

[habeeb]

brand does matter

as miracle gro's bone meal is high in N, but epsoma's I believe has the N rating at 1 ... I also believe from different sources, but still different ratios for both being bone

also if you even look at seaweeds, and there NPK ratios...

 

[That_One_Weed]

I like to keep my lips off the canna-industrial milk teat, and I make better soil than you can buy.

Can i buy some from you hahahaha

 

[supermanlives]

,kellogg works well too. i am using 3 this time. espoma,kellogg and piece of mind ff

 

[mad librettist]

Can i buy some from you hahahaha

no, but I think CTGuy knows of a company that does just that. You should contact him.

 

[BurnOne]

I've used Espoma a lot.
Burn1