A question for breeding experts.

[Baba Ku]

Scared money don't win, and evil women drink gin...
ALWAYS split 8's...even if counting the shoe.
Winners change their bets, and never the basic strategy.
Letting 8's ride also violates the golden rule of hit til you get 17 or better...no matter what. (Unless of course house is set to bust) And then you should be splitting and hoping like hell to draw 3's on each one.

Look around the table...see those disgusted looks...wanna know why?

 

[HempKat]

I think the point Tom was trying to get across is that picking a male is more risky than picking a female. Therefore, you can minimize this risk by picking a male from a line that produces a higher percentage of high quality specimens, eg: an IBL. A hybrid line or a line that you are unfamiliar with should be the female.

Kinda like splitting 8's in BlackJack: Look around the table, if you see a bunch of high cards - split 'em, if not - let it ride!

Ah okay, that makes sense, thanks for that clarification.

 

[HempKat]

Another question I'd like to ask of breeders sort of along the same lines but more just for curiosity's sake. What inspires you all to make a cross? I mean beyond what the market demands.

 

[Tom Hill]

Performance expectations of X candivar within the purposed macro-environmental conditions. IE, consider the undesirable traits a particular cultivar may have in the purposed grow scenario, then find another that nicely counters those undesirables. -T

 

[HempKat]

Performance expectations of X candivar within the purposed macro-environmental conditions. IE, consider the undesirable traits a particular cultivar may have in the purposed grow scenario, then find another that nicely counters those undesirables. -T

Isn't that really market demand though since the purposed macro-environmental conditions, the particular cultivar and the purposed grow scenario are usually dictated by the grower/customer? I was wondering if there was any of the breeders own personal choice that goes into it? Like a breeder who puts out a whole bunch of crosses all made from the C-99 Pineapple pheno as one side of the cross. That's kind of him making a statement that he feels that C-99 pheno is good with everything. Maybe it goes deeper though, maybe what he's really doing is trying to create strains that take him back to a better time in life that the C-99 pineapple pheno reminds him of?

 

[Tom Hill]

I can't speak for other breeders but the only grower I allow to form my decisions as a breeder is me. Without intending to offend I find that the average customer is still fairly ignorant in regards to what they want. An example would be that many still look to "indicas" (broadleafs) when seeking high yield, and nothing could be further from the truth. Their opinions were formed by companies slapping indica labels on what are clearly broadleaf/tropical hybrids.

C99 is a good example of what I was speaking of -countering undesirables- but this was accomplished before the Bros G got to it. Now it's kindof a ringer of sorts for indoor hybrid development, fairly prepotent in desirable traits. This is why its use in hybrids is successful, as apposed to what ever else the imagination may come up with. -T

 

[Baba Ku]

Another that tends to breed pretty decent is Deep Chunk. Y'all heard of it?


c99xdc

 

[inquest]

BK, you've got a higher tolerance for risk than I! Or maybe better luck. Every time I split in an ascending count, looking for 3's I can double down on, I stay on a 17 - 20 with about a 16 to 1 betting spread. Then the dealer pulls a 4 or 5 card 20 -21 outta their ass! lol sux to be me!

Hempy, what traits are you lookin for specifically? Or are you just lookin to preserve the pack you just dropped a hundred bucks on?

One thing I've been looking for for awhile now is any info on known dominant/recessive/co-dominant/etc. traits in our beloved plant. I'm forming the opinion that this info falls under the "trade secret" heading? We've been crossing plants long enough I'd imagine someone would be paying attension. Maybe I'm typing the wrong words into google? That was the case with Ne....

 

[Baba Ku]

Even with 21 it's all in the numbers....

Let's all assume that there are desirable traits in cannabis that are not autosomal. If we can identify traits that actually are sex linked, take a good inhale of the following passage....

Autosomal traits are passed on from parents to offspring independent of gender, whereas, because sex-linked traits are carried on the X chromosome and NOT the Y chromosome, males (XY (hemizygous)) have a 50% chance of being either recessesive or dominant for the trait . With sex-linked traits, females however have more possible outcomes in terms of dominant/recessive traits because of their two X chromosomes (XX). This means that both Xs may be dominant (homozygous dominant), both Xs may be recessive (homozygous recessesive), or one X may be dominant while the other is recessive (heterozygous- the dominant trait would be physically represendted).

 

[Raco]

C99 x DC?? LOL!

Doesn´t even compare to this Guajira Red x DC F1 hybrid...no offence intended at all !

 

[resinryder]

Amazingly beautiful bud Raco.

 

[Raco]

Thx rr brother comin´from you I´m honoured

It´s all about natural purity,skunk-free LOL

TomHill´s Original Haze

 

[HempKat]

BK, you've got a higher tolerance for risk than I! Or maybe better luck. Every time I split in an ascending count, looking for 3's I can double down on, I stay on a 17 - 20 with about a 16 to 1 betting spread. Then the dealer pulls a 4 or 5 card 20 -21 outta their ass! lol sux to be me!

Hempy, what traits are you lookin for specifically? Or are you just lookin to preserve the pack you just dropped a hundred bucks on?

One thing I've been looking for for awhile now is any info on known dominant/recessive/co-dominant/etc. traits in our beloved plant. I'm forming the opinion that this info falls under the "trade secret" heading? We've been crossing plants long enough I'd imagine someone would be paying attension. Maybe I'm typing the wrong words into google? That was the case with Ne....

I'm not looking for anything specific other then trying to understand what influences breeders in the choices they make and seeing if that info can help me to make better seeds for myself.

 

[inquest]

Getting back to sex linked traits, I had an interesting observation with my last two runs of Astur Jaya's Tempo Norte. Popped 18 beans, found one that had a powerful odor right from seedling. Turned out to be male. Bred him to a few fems. Round two; popped twenty beans and found only one that smelled at seedling stage. Yup, turned out to be male. The only male, actually.

I know, I know, WAY to early to form any theories, but it was a neat coincidence that I'll keep my eye out for during future grows with them.

As a side note, I found the strain pretty to look at.... but meh in the smoke dept. for the first run. Most were blah during the second, but there was one nice girl I found.

 

[The iD]

I'm not looking for anything specific other then trying to understand what influences breeders in the choices they make and seeing if that info can help me to make better seeds for myself.

most "breeders" are influenced by their own ideological whims, opinions, and (false) beliefs which have no place in a productive breeding scheme, imo. this info would likely not help you produce better progeny.

"good" breeders use impartiality, experience, scientific knowledge, and math to increase the chances of receiving favorable traits w/i a line or breeding population. they use the tools that they deem most appropriate, be it reversal, open pollination, inbreeding, selective breeding, hybridizing, etc., to greater achieve this goal. they analyze phenotypic traits in progeny by statistical &/or biometrical techniques, hopefully gaining a further, more-correct understanding of genotypic dominance in parents, allowing one to make better selections of P1, to further achieve this goal. they take good notes. they have a clear and concise objective. this info could very well likely help you produce better progeny, if one has an understanding and ability (typically read will;desire;fortitude;grit...you HST fans should get that last one) of when and how to use it/them.

unfortunately, w/ an unspecific question comes unspecific answers and it has been my experience that it is best to have a great array of "tools" at one's disposal, and choose the most fit for the job at hand.

oh, and what makes a "great" breeder? the same as a good one, but w/ the addition of a lil luck. stay frosty,

-iD

 

[HempKat]

most "breeders" are influenced by their own ideological whims, opinions, and (false) beliefs which have no place in a productive breeding scheme, imo. this info would likely not help you produce better progeny.

"good" breeders use impartiality, experience, scientific knowledge, and math to increase the chances of receiving favorable traits w/i a line or breeding population. they use the tools that they deem most appropriate, be it reversal, open pollination, inbreeding, selective breeding, hybridizing, etc., to greater achieve this goal. they analyze phenotypic traits in progeny by statistical &/or biometrical techniques, hopefully gaining a further, more-correct understanding of genotypic dominance in parents, allowing one to make better selections of P1, to further achieve this goal. they take good notes. they have a clear and concise objective. this info could very well likely help you produce better progeny, if one has an understanding and ability (typically read will;desire;fortitude;grit...you HST fans should get that last one) of when and how to use it/them.

unfortunately, w/ an unspecific question comes unspecific answers and it has been my experience that it is best to have a great array of "tools" at one's disposal, and choose the most fit for the job at hand.

oh, and what makes a "great" breeder? the same as a good one, but w/ the addition of a lil luck. stay frosty,

-iD

Well actually the question wasn't unspecific, when I said I'm not looking for anything specific that was in response to someone asking me what traits I was looking for. The answer to that question is nothing specific because at the moment I don't have a particular cross in mind.

Oh well I guess I'll just keep sticking with my hit or miss approach since none of the things breeders do is practical for me to do with the space I have to work with and the fact I'm just doing this for myself.

 

[CFP65]

@Inquest

try let those smelly males flower out and in the middle of flower stress the helle out of them, ex. cut of the main top, and se if they develop female pistils.
ie. backwards or reverse "hermie" or male with female autosomes

 

[jyme]

did you ever figure out what you was going to do hempkat. the truth is all you are really wanting to do is ensure you make quality seeds that will hold you over for some time in meds. i dont blame you when i get a new strain and decide i like it well enough to keep it i make me some seeds. this isnt a breeding project because i have males and females of the same strain. if your going to cross two strains and you like what you see in one plant and say it has charcteristics of say a smell or aroma and then there is charcteristics on the other strain that seems to have larger buds and more compact its hard to walk up to a new strain and asume that certan charctristics are domanate and others are recesive that would take a study of a strain or knowing some one who has worked with the strain fo a while. but yes you can cross any two strains and have seeds the f1s will be fairly uniformal expressing what seems to be traits from both parent plants. as you said you wasnt going to be planing on going into f2s and you really dont have any disarable traits in mind i would dothe simplest thing and just make a new generation of the strains you have. then if later after working with them you can make a choice in your actions with out asking people for there opinion as you see every one has there own way and ideals really breeding isnt about any one but you. i will say this the two strains must cross together in harmony say one strain replaces another strains ressesive with domanats and so forth over lapping and from this grows somthing simaler to what is diesired the rest of the work is trying to rid the plants of the undisirable traits that are incorperted into the new genetics a breeder trys to pick strains that will entertwine with one another and cause the lest amout of negitive results. i have found strains that are not as geneticly alike cross well but in this i will have decaids of work ahead of me trying to get the strain to fit my criteria. then again the crossing of two strains that are much like each other who both cary simaler or the same traits can combined and be what your looking for. hey theres many choices and yes you are guessing and crossing mor than the plants your fingers to. we as breeders wether small time or industrial type all come to the same problem we cant be sure the finale results till the seeds are grown out then we must corect the undisirable traits that appered unexpectedly .

all i can really say in the end is make your cross and if you decide you want to make more seeds with out the work just save clones of the parents and bx the f1

 

[Baba Ku]

Good post, jyme.
Also consider that when two lines are brought together, there can be a chemical synergy that happens when the two plants combine and a mixing of enzymes occurs, possibly creating an effect that neither of the single parent lines possessed. One parent can enhance the chemical makeup of the other and visa-verse.
Imagine two lines that are predictable with familiar traits being brought together for a stellar F1 that folks love and is like nothing else...
We really have no way of predicting this synergy between plants.

 

[HempKat]

did you ever figure out what you was going to do hempkat. the truth is all you are really wanting to do is ensure you make quality seeds that will hold you over for some time in meds. i dont blame you when i get a new strain and decide i like it well enough to keep it i make me some seeds. this isnt a breeding project because i have males and females of the same strain. if your going to cross two strains and you like what you see in one plant and say it has charcteristics of say a smell or aroma and then there is charcteristics on the other strain that seems to have larger buds and more compact its hard to walk up to a new strain and asume that certan charctristics are domanate and others are recesive that would take a study of a strain or knowing some one who has worked with the strain fo a while. but yes you can cross any two strains and have seeds the f1s will be fairly uniformal expressing what seems to be traits from both parent plants. as you said you wasnt going to be planing on going into f2s and you really dont have any disarable traits in mind i would dothe simplest thing and just make a new generation of the strains you have. then if later after working with them you can make a choice in your actions with out asking people for there opinion as you see every one has there own way and ideals really breeding isnt about any one but you. i will say this the two strains must cross together in harmony say one strain replaces another strains ressesive with domanats and so forth over lapping and from this grows somthing simaler to what is diesired the rest of the work is trying to rid the plants of the undisirable traits that are incorperted into the new genetics a breeder trys to pick strains that will entertwine with one another and cause the lest amout of negitive results. i have found strains that are not as geneticly alike cross well but in this i will have decaids of work ahead of me trying to get the strain to fit my criteria. then again the crossing of two strains that are much like each other who both cary simaler or the same traits can combined and be what your looking for. hey theres many choices and yes you are guessing and crossing mor than the plants your fingers to. we as breeders wether small time or industrial type all come to the same problem we cant be sure the finale results till the seeds are grown out then we must corect the undisirable traits that appered unexpectedly .

all i can really say in the end is make your cross and if you decide you want to make more seeds with out the work just save clones of the parents and bx the f1

Thanks, there was alot of good information in what you said. I want to correct some apparent misunderstandings though. When I say I don't have a specific traits in mind it's because right now I don't have any crossings I'm trying to work on. I was asking the question just for informational purposes, not because I'm trying to do something right at this moment. Another thing is I wasn't asking about how you go about picking traits. What I was asking really is say you have two strains you want to cross and you've already grown out a bunch for each strain in the cross. As well as picked one male and one female of each strain that best represented the traits you wanted to pass on from each strain. At that point what factors influence which strain you choose to be the male in your cross and which strain do you choose to be the female? Is there something that says one needs to be the female in order to accomplish what you want or does it not matter because in the end the genes the cross will be built from will be passed on by both strains regardless of which is the male and which is the female?