The Chemistry of WAXES (solidified THC chunks) for the purpose of making E-Cig THC

[kinesis]

ttp://blog.mjbud.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/OGKushWax.jpg

I am looking into the chemistry/chemical properties of these substances. Are they oils, lipids? What are they?

I am doing a chemistry project/experiment - I want to do a process to turn this into a highly effective E Juice that you can use with electronic cigarettes and get a very effective vapor high from.

Even if this has already been done, developed, etc it's not like it's a patentable invention, as cannabis is illegal anyways. I could sell cartridges of "THC E Juice" by bulk to shops but I don't grow or garden or have access to wholesale amounts of wax anyways, this is more of a personal endeavor to find the most discreet, private, and health conscious way to medicate.

Here is a chemical analysis of the constituents of Electronic Cigarette "E Juice" done by GC/MS and Flame GC/MS:

http://www.e-cig.org/pdfs/Instead-ELiquid-Report.pdf


Obviously I will need: Ethylene Glycol, Glycerine, Diethylene Glycol, Propylene Glycol, Waxes to experiment with, etc. I will need to be chemist and scientific as can be about mastering the way of developing this "THC E Juice" but the results will be a very attractive way to medicate for cancer patients to the stealth smoker.

Another forum discusses this, I'm not the only one to have thought up this idea before (smart people out there ):
http://fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?id=701
http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?id=889&p=1

 

[atarijedi]

Ethylene Glycol is poisonous, don't use it, that is why Antifreeze was switched to Propylene Glycol. Peoples pets were dying from laping up antifreeze that fell on the ground. Glycerine (Vegetable Glycerine) is sometimes used in ecig juice, although it is thicker, and the ecig must be made specifically to use it. Diethylene Glycol is also poisonous, so don't use it either. Also note that the PDF you linked to said that it did not find Ethylene glycol or Diethylene glycol in the juice.

Just stick to Propylene Glycol, it is already used in a multitude of food products, medicines, cosmetics, as well as the majority of ecig juices. It is also what is used in smoke machines to make smoke.

Also, you don't want to use waxes, when waxes cool, they solidify and could ruin the e-cigarette atomizer, waxes by themselves don't have any psychoactive effects, it is almost like candle wax, and has historical relevance as it was used in Oakum, but is pretty useless on its own, maybe you could make candles out of it or something, lol.

What you want to do is strip the waxes out of the hash oil, and use the resulting waxless oil to make your e-cig juice. I would start mixing the oil 1:4 with propylene glycol. 1 part oil for 4 parts propylene glycol.

Start with small amounts, and then just raise or lower the amount of oil and tune it to perfection.

You could also do some other things like strip out the terpenoids and flavinoids, this would give you a compound that doesn't smell or taste like weed. You could then add other flavours to it (mint, orange, apple, strawberry, whatever), or add the weed flavour back in.

I have a whole bunch of ideas, chemistry wise, that I want to test, hopefully within the next year or so I will be able to do so.

P.S. sorry this post sorta jumps all over, I am not very good at writing cohesive thoughts! lol.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Ethylene Glycol is poisonous, don't use it, that is why Antifreeze was switched to Propylene Glycol. /quote]

While technically ethylene glycol does not by itself poison us, what our bodies turn it into, most definitely does.

Propylene glycol, on the other hand, does offer significant opportunities.

 

[TheHashAssassin]

What you want to do is strip the waxes out of the hash oil, and use the resulting waxless oil to make your e-cig juice.

Please explain. I am assuming this method would achieve an oil with a similar runny consistancy of the old 70's honey oil.

 

[HydroCab]

also on the testing list should be PEG (polyethylene glycol)

used as a chemical binder to increase solubility of some pharma drugs.
this process is called PEGylation, look it up, prolly exactly what u need.

it comes in differing molecular weights suited to the applications.

some eye drops have a low molecular weight PEG in them (PEG 400) these are mostly used as lubricants (like a wax)

an example of a higher molecular weight PEG is in laxatives (PEG 3350) which help retain water in stool effectively softening stool.

good luck! if you can find a way to bond THC to the PEG, you can also effectively remove metabolites from hair follicles in a relatively harmless manner.

 

[Chronic Don]

What you want to do is strip the waxes out of the hash oil,

Please explain. I am assuming this method would achieve an oil with a similar runny consistancy of the old 70's honey oil.

what he said. so how do you get the waxes out?

 

[atarijedi]

It is incredibly easy to remove the waxes.

The first thing is that you need to know is to only use a hash oil made with a nonpolar compound like butane, hexane, heptane, chloroform, etc... ISO wash won't work, as it has too many impurities like chlorophylls, and water.


Ok, so place your hash oil into a mason jar and cover it with ethanol. Then place it into a pot of hot water, not boiling. This will let the oil dissolve into the ethanol quicker and easier.

Give it a stir, or put the lid on the jar and give it a shake, if you put the lid on, don't forget to burp it.

After it has all dissolved you take the mason jar out of the water, and place it under progressively cooler tap water, so the glass won't break, and then into an ice bath.

You should see the wax precipitate out of the ethanol, usually as little balls of wax (aka Oakum), filter the solution through a coffee filter, you can throw out the wax, then boil off the alcohol, you can use the hot water in the pot to do this, or whatever you want.

Voila, wax free oil, it is still sticky, and it will stretch, but it will be far less viscous than probably most of the oils you have seen.

 

[Gray Wolf]

It is incredibly easy to remove the waxes.

The first thing is that you need to know is to only use a hash oil made with a nonpolar compound like butane, hexane, heptane, chloroform, etc... ISO wash won't work, as it has too many impurities like chlorophylls, and water.


Ok, so place your hash oil into a mason jar and cover it with ethanol. Then place it into a pot of hot water, not boiling. This will let the oil dissolve into the ethanol quicker and easier.

Give it a stir, or put the lid on the jar and give it a shake, if you put the lid on, don't forget to burp it.

After it has all dissolved you take the mason jar out of the water, and place it under progressively cooler tap water, so the glass won't break, and then into an ice bath.

You should see the wax precipitate out of the ethanol, usually as little balls of wax (aka Oakum), filter the solution through a coffee filter, you can throw out the wax, then boil off the alcohol, you can use the hot water in the pot to do this, or whatever you want.

Voila, wax free oil, it is still sticky, and it will stretch, but it will be far less viscous than probably most of the oils you have seen.

A good way to turn a concrete, or an oleoresin extract into an absolute!

 

[Papulz]

<mind blown

 

[Anti]

Well, I have absolutely no intention of making use of any of the information contained within this thread.

That being said, I found it all quite fascinating, and I am subscribing in hopes of learning more about things that I know nothing about.

Thank you!

 

[GoldenSilence]

Well, I have absolutely no intention of making use of any of the information contained within this thread.

That being said, I found it all quite fascinating, and I am subscribing in hopes of learning more about things that I know nothing about.

Thank you!

Subscribed, and well put man

 

[jump117]

You should see the wax precipitate out of the ethanol, usually as little balls of wax (aka Oakum), filter the solution through a coffee filter, you can throw out the wax,

A good way to turn a concrete, or an oleoresin extract into an absolute!

All of it is true, that's how I get the Absolute Amber,
I am always happy to encourage discussion of this technology and welcome new follower.
Here is one of the photos of waxes filtered from the primary BHOleoresin / BHConcrete.

Notice the white slime filtered from ethanol solution of BHConcrete,

 

[jump117]

You could then add other flavours to it (mint, orange, apple, strawberry, whatever), or add the weed flavour back in.

Hope this will create the new profile, they say flavours are co-psychoactive.

 

[Nugz]

You could also do some other things like strip out the terpenoids and flavinoids, this would give you a compound that doesn't smell or taste like weed. You could then add other flavours to it (mint, orange, apple, strawberry, whatever), or add the weed flavour back in.

I have a whole bunch of ideas, chemistry wise, that I want to test, hopefully within the next year or so I will be able to do so.

P.S. sorry this post sorta jumps all over, I am not very good at writing cohesive thoughts! lol.

Can you explain about how to separate the terpenoids and flavinoids? It would be awesome to produce some oil adding back double or tripple the terpenoid content.

 

[atarijedi]

Can you explain about how to separate the terpenoids and flavinoids? It would be awesome to produce some oil adding back double or tripple the terpenoid content.

Sorry for taking so long to respond.

The only way I know to strip out the terpenoids and flavinoids would be fractional distillation of hash oil. Again it would need to be oil with as few impurities as possible, so alcohol (iso and ethanol) based washes are out of the question.

I do not know at what temperatures each compound will vapourize at, it would be a fun experiment, the only issue being compounds that have similar boiling points would come out at the same time, and, you might not know exactly what compound is in your beaker after each distillation.

But it is a place to start, I am positive there will be documentation (studies, patents, reports) online about removing and distilling compounds from cannabis.

I believe there is also a book called Cannabis Chemistry, it might also be another good starting point.

One thing I do know is that a lot of the terpenoids and flavinoids are at least partially water soluble (one of the reasons why water curing works), and are volatiles, and as such have low boiling points. Most likely below 100C (212F).

If I get any more information in these regards, I will let you know, and probably make a post about it.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Sorry for taking so long to respond.

The only way I know to strip out the terpenoids and flavinoids would be fractional distillation of hash oil. Again it would need to be oil with as few impurities as possible, so alcohol (iso and ethanol) based washes are out of the question.

I do not know at what temperatures each compound will vapourize at, it would be a fun experiment, the only issue being compounds that have similar boiling points would come out at the same time, and, you might not know exactly what compound is in your beaker after each distillation.

But it is a place to start, I am positive there will be documentation (studies, patents, reports) online about removing and distilling compounds from cannabis.

I believe there is also a book called Cannabis Chemistry, it might also be another good starting point.

One thing I do know is that a lot of the terpenoids and flavinoids are at least partially water soluble (one of the reasons why water curing works), and are volatiles, and as such have low boiling points. Most likely below 100C (212F).

If I get any more information in these regards, I will let you know, and probably make a post about it.

Previously posted by some hero or heroine on ICMag. Sorry I don't remember who, but thanks!

Even though they are aromatics shucking molecules at ambient temperatures, their boiling points are suprisingly high.

CANNABINOIDS, TURPENOIDS, AND FLAVOIDS PRORPERTIES​

?-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC)
Boiling point: 157*C / 314.6 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Euphoriant, Analgesic, Antiinflammatory, Antioxidant, Antiemetic

cannabidiol (CBD)
Boiling point: 160-180*C / 320-356 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Anxiolytic, Analgesic, Antipsychotic, Antiinflammatory, Antioxidant, Antispasmodic

Cannabinol (CBN)
Boiling point: 185*C / 365 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Oxidation, breakdown, product, Sedative, Antibiotic

cannabichromene (CBC)
Boiling point: 220*C / 428 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antiinflammatory, Antibiotic, Antifungal

cannabigerol (CBG)
Boiling point: MP52
Properties: Antiinflammatory, Antibiotic, Antifungal

?-8-tetrahydrocannabinol (?-8-THC)
Boiling point: 175-178*C / 347-352.4 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Resembles ?-9-THC, Less psychoactive, More stable Antiemetic

tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV)
Boiling point: < 220*C / <428 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Analgesic, Euphoriant



Terpenoid essential oils, their boiling points, and properties


ß-myrcene
Boiling point: 166-168*C / 330.8-334.4 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Analgesic. Antiinflammatory, Antibiotic, Antimutagenic

ß-caryophyllene
Boiling point: 119*C / 246.2 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antiinflammatory, Cytoprotective (gastric mucosa), Antimalarial

d-limonene
Boiling point: 177*C / 350.6 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Cannabinoid agonist?, Immune potentiator, Antidepressant, Antimutagenic

linalool
Boiling point: 198*C / 388.4 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Sedative, Antidepressant, Anxiolytic, Immune potentiator

pulegone
Boiling point: 224*C / 435.2 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Memory booster?, AChE inhibitor, Sedative, Antipyretic

1,8-cineole (eucalyptol)
Boiling point: 176*C / 348.8 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: AChE inhibitor, Increases cerebral, blood flow, Stimulant, Antibiotic, Antiviral, Antiinflammatory, Antinociceptive

a-pinene
Boiling point: 156*C / 312.8 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antiinflammatory, Bronchodilator, Stimulant, Antibiotic, Antineoplastic, AChE inhibitor

a-terpineol
Boiling point: 217-218*C / 422.6-424.4 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Sedative, Antibiotic, AChE inhibitor, Antioxidant, Antimalarial

terpineol-4-ol
Boiling point: 209*C / 408.2 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: AChE inhibitor. Antibiotic

p-cymene
Boiling point: 177*C / 350.6 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antibiotic, Anticandidal, AChE inhibitor



Flavonoid and phytosterol components, their boiling points, and properties


apigenin
Boiling point: 178*C / 352.4 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Anxiolytic, Antiinflammatory, Estrogenic

quercetin
Boiling point: 250*C / 482 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antioxidant, Antimutagenic, Antiviral, Antineoplastic

cannflavin A
Boiling point: 182*C / 359.6 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: COX inhibitor, LO inhibitor

ß-sitosterol
Boiling point: 134*C / 273.2 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antiinflammatory, 5-a-reductase, inhibitor

 

[eloquentsoution]

the process of making an acetate strips out all but the cannabinoids, i believe. i am using acetate to medicate my truffles as the flavor is neutered.

 

[Gray Wolf]

All right, we tried cannabis acetate in an E-cig and it worked well.

I again tested mine this morning before any other meds, so as to determine unadulterated effects. The head effect was almost immediate and strong, followed by body effect within five minutes.

The good news is that the vapor doesn't smell like cannabis either.

Hee, hee, hee, snicker, snark, snort, it will definitely allow us to medicate places that smoking is proscribed and oral ingestion is too slow.....................

 

[Anti]

E-THC

E-THC

All right, we tried cannabis acetate in an E-cig and it worked well.

I again tested mine this morning before any other meds, so as to determine unadulterated effects. The head effect was almost immediate and strong, followed by body effect within five minutes.

I would think that if one were to take the time to compile a step-by-step of the process from buds to acetate with pictures one would be quite popular around these parts.

 

[AmeriSkunk]

I would agree.... I would love tp zee a how to thread on this... because I want one of these for myself!!! Lol. For all the stealth reasons you mentioned plus for the ease