Gas is gonna go through the roof.....

[Greensub]

Bad news for Californians who want electric vehicles

Bad news for Californians who want electric vehicles

Purdue just did a study on the chevy volt.

"The tiered system was put in because California wanted to be green and discourage electricity consumption," said Wally Tyner, an energy economist and lead researcher on the study. "The unintended consequence is that it also discourages electric vehicles."
A plug-in hybrid Volt would increase the average household's electrical usage 60%, the study said. Although the study didn't explicitly examine all-electric vehicles such as the Leaf, "the same principle would apply," Tyner said.
Both the hybrid Toyota Prius, which doesn't need an outlet to charge, and the gas-powered Chevrolet Cobalt are more cost-effective in California, the study found. Oil prices would have to rise from less than $100 a barrel now to between $171 and $254 to make the Volt as economical, even after factoring in thousands of dollars in government incentives.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-autos-electric-rates-20110114,0,5756943.story

 

[BrainSellz]

big key word in that lil article "COULD"....come on people, just say whether it is or isnt, all this does is put the fear in people through the word "could"...thats all it takes to deter people....
now they should find a lil solar panel and battery that would hold just enough energy to charge that car so these folks have nothing else to say.....its crazy what we end up paying for cars in the long run....car =20 thousand and then gas for the lifetime of the car and who knows what the price goes to....

 

[Tr33]

who cares?
I mean really,
fuck it, you have to pay the price for a

"Ticket to Ride."

cry and whine all you want.
dream about way to save your cash
when it all come down to reality

You whining here won't help one Iota.

You gotta pay to Live in this World

All your bitching is going to give you gray hair and an early grave

 

[BrainSellz]

i do..
really i do....
no bitching, just talking and not quite gettin what your gettin at is that you IB...jk
hope your day is a good one Tr33....

 

[Mybud]

Austin, Tx. average price $2.80 gallon

 

[mocs0]

Can someone please tell me why hemp is not a valid replacement for fossil fuels and why Jack Herer (RIP) would lie to me? I know there are a few exaggerated statements in Emperor Wears No Clothes, but is it really not a realistic alternative? We could start by turning all the "marijuana plants" confiscated by the DEA into fuel. Most of it is hemp anyway, according to Jack.

It's a beautiful thing to be the world's reserve currency

In your opinion how long will this last and what will be the effects in the US when that ceases to be the case?

Actually in some ways the higher the price the better. High prices will stimulate research and development into alternative energy, expand exploration and drilling for new supplies, and people will buy smaller more efficient vehicles. All good things.

I think it will just give oil companies even higher profits when they already are having record profits posted. Congress pretends like it doesn't know how to use the budget it already has to protect the people from the corporations, so taxing gas more wouldn't solve anything.

The only thing dictating gas prices are taxes, subsidies, and greed (mostly greed). Supply has no relevance. Supply is an illusion based on the level of production decided on by OPEC every few years.

As long as profit reins from mining and pumping from the ground, old money will never admit that renewables are sustainable.

Amen, amen

 

[Chronic Don]

Austin, Tx. average price $2.80 gallon

Edmonton AB average price 1.019/Lt or 3.85cdn/us gal or 4.62/imp gal

so when you start paying that stupid price in the same city where its refined you can start whining harder.

 

[Chronic Don]

Originally Posted by Linenoise
The only thing dictating gas prices are taxes, subsidies, and greed (mostly greed). Supply has no relevance. Supply is an illusion based on the level of production decided on by OPEC every few years.

When the economies fell and oil prices nosedived from a high of 140/barrel to 30+/barrel, did not OPEC and all others cut production to keep prices at a certain level targeted at 60-70/barrel? so why is it climbing higher? shouldn't they be bringing up production to meet the "demand" which is causing it to rise (90+/barrel now)?

If I may ponder isn't that something like price fixing? something that I've heard of companies (albeit in different industries) being fined or shut down over? yet oil co's do it and no one does a thing... could not a class action lawsuit be brought against them?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

who cares?
I mean really,
fuck it, you have to pay the price for a

"Ticket to Ride."

Yep and technology is perfecting new ways to ride.

cry and whine all you want.
dream about way to save your cash
when it all come down to reality

Yep, the reality of commuting cheaper is wise, the reality of saving our environment is paramount.

You whining here won't help one Iota.

Then we'll leave you alone. take the hint.

You gotta pay to Live in this World

duh hu

All your bitching is going to give you gray hair and an early grave

Conformity makes you boring and... whatever.

 

[igrowone]

Can someone please tell me why hemp is not a valid replacement for fossil fuels and why Jack Herer (RIP) would lie to me? I know there are a few exaggerated statements in Emperor Wears No Clothes, but is it really not a realistic alternative?
Amen, amen

as much as i like hemp(and it's products), it basically just another biomass play
i know it has good numbers if we can get celluosistic ethanol to be economical, but that's still a work in progress
not sure of the numbers, but hemp would have to beat the alternatives by a wide margin(such as switch grass) to get by the stigma in this country

 

[Greensub]

as much as i like hemp(and it's products), it basically just another biomass play
i know it has good numbers if we can get celluosistic ethanol to be economical, but that's still a work in progress
not sure of the numbers, but hemp would have to beat the alternatives by a wide margin(such as switch grass) to get by the stigma in this country

I was under the impression that it's the hemp seed oil that is a substitute for diesel. (actually what I read was that the diesel engine was originally designed to run on hemp oil).

 

[igrowone]

I was under the impression that it's the hemp seed oil that is a substitute for diesel. (actually what I read was that the diesel engine was originally designed to run on hemp oil).

i think it's the double header that might make hemp rank high
combination of the oil from seeds, ethanol from the cellulose from stalk/leaf
where it would rank with both products, not sure

 

[robbiedublu]

When the economies fell and oil prices nosedived from a high of 140/barrel to 30+/barrel, did not OPEC and all others cut production to keep prices at a certain level targeted at 60-70/barrel? so why is it climbing higher? shouldn't they be bringing up production to meet the "demand" which is causing it to rise (90+/barrel now)?

If I may ponder isn't that something like price fixing? something that I've heard of companies (albeit in different industries) being fined or shut down over? yet oil co's do it and no one does a thing... could not a class action lawsuit be brought against them?

Price fixing? Class action lawsuit? Seriously bro? Ever hear of OPEC? Why do you think OPEC exists? Technically they set production quotas, those in turn control price. People in China and India want to drive cars just like people in the US and Europe do. Prices will bounce around some but over time they have to go up, up, up.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

as much as i like hemp(and it's products), it basically just another biomass play
i know it has good numbers if we can get celluosistic ethanol to be economical, but that's still a work in progress
not sure of the numbers, but hemp would have to beat the alternatives by a wide margin(such as switch grass) to get by the stigma in this country

Here's some info about switchgrass and biofuel potential. Sorry, couldn't find a hemp to switchgrass comparison:

... The is study based on 10 years of research at Minnesota's Cedar Creek Natural History Area, one of 26 NSF long-term ecological research (LTER) sites. 10 years of research revealed that degraded agricultural land planted with diverse mixtures of prairie plants produces 238 % more biofuel on average than the same land planted with various single prairie plant species, including switchgrass. "This study highlights very clearly the additional benefits of taking a less-intensive management approach and maintaining higher biodiversity in the process," said Henry Gholz, lead researcher. "It establishes a new baseline for evaluating the use of land for biofuel production". ...

... Switchgrass was one of the 16 species in the study. "Switchgrass is very productive when it's grown like corn in fertile soil with lots of fertilizer, pesticide and energy inputs, but this approach doesn't yield as much energy gain as mixed species in poor soil nor does it have the same environmental benefits," said Jason Hill, also of the University of Minnesota.

At present, all biofuels - including nonfood energy crops such as switchgrass, elephant grass, hybrid poplar and hybrid willow - are produced as monocultures grown primarily in fertile soils.

Growing mixed prairie grasses on degraded land could produce a stable bioenergy production that could replace 13 % of global petroleum consumption and 19 % of global electricity consumption, not to mention environmental benefits, like renewed soil fertility, cleaner ground and surface waters, preservation of wildlife habitats, and ecotourism.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/The-Best-Source-of-Biofuel-41960.shtml

Maybe hemp itself isn't the answer, although it grows in non-fertile soil. If we have to pump the Gulf full of fertilizer, switchgrass itself isn't the answer either.

But the ten year study indicates we can work towards energy independence with bio fuels.

 

[igrowone]

^^^ interesting about the switch grass, thought the numbers were better than that(for no fertilizer)
i don't know where hemp ranks
the usual plants mentioned for north america, are soy beans, rape seed, mustard seed
but the 1st 2 are food crops, and if you're using food crops for fuel, you're probably screwed

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

The study included 16 different plants. The study concluded that bio diversity in poor soil produces more bio mass (fuel source) in relation to fertilizer used as opposed to monocultures like switchgrass that require fertilizer or fertile soil.

 

[igrowone]

The study included 16 different plants. The study concluded that bio diversity in poor soil produces more bio mass (fuel source) in relation to fertilizer used as opposed to monocultures like switchgrass that require fertilizer or fertile soil.

it makes complete sense, ecologies don't(normally) function as monocultures
there are a few, such as the northern conifer forests(to some extent)
for cellulose, mixed plants probably make the most sense
have to track down some hemp numbers, breed some plants with seeds the size of grapes

 

[mocs0]

as much as i like hemp(and it's products), it basically just another biomass play
i know it has good numbers if we can get celluosistic ethanol to be economical, but that's still a work in progress
not sure of the numbers, but hemp would have to beat the alternatives by a wide margin(such as switch grass) to get by the stigma in this country

Thanks for your reply. I don't know what the cellulosistic ethanol process is, but is it similar to the biomass cracking Herer speaks of? He claims it is the same pyrolysis used to process fossil fuel today.

For those who haven't read Emperor Wears No Clothes, from the energy chapter:

In the 1920s, the early oil barons such as Rockefeller of Standard Oil, Rothschild of Shell, etc., became paranoically aware of the possibilities of Henry Ford’s vision of cheap methanol fuel, * and they kept oil prices incredibly low – between $1 and $4 per barrel (there are 42 gallons in an oil barrel) until 1970 – almost 50 years! Then, once they were finally sure of the lack of competition, the price of oil jumped to almost $60+ per barrel over the next 30 years.

* Henry Ford grew cannabis/hemp/marijuana on his estate after 1937, possibly to prove the cheapness of methanol production at Iron Mountain. He made plastic cars with wheat straw, hemp and sisal. (Popular Mechanics, Dec. 1941, “Pinch Hitters for Defense.”) In 1892, Rudolph Diesel invented the diesel engine, which he intended to fuel “by a variety of fuels, especially vegetable and seed oils.”

Biomass conversion through pyrolysis (applying high heat to organic material in the absence of air or in reduced air) produces clean burning charcoal to replace coal.

The biomass “cracking” process also produces non-sulfur fuel oils capable of replacing fossil fuel oils such as diesel oil. And the atmospheric CO2 doesn’t rise when biomass derived fuel oils are burned.

Pyrolysis uses the same “cracking technology employed by the petroleum industry in processing fossil fuels. The gasses that remain after the charcoal and fuel oils are extracted from hemp can be used for driving electric power co-generators, too!

This biomass conversion process can be adjusted to produce charcoal, methanol and fuel oils to process steam, as well as chemicals important to industry: acetone, ethyl acetate, tar, pitch and creosote.

The Ford Motor Company successfully operated a biomass “cracking” plant in the 1930s at Iron Mountain, Michigan, using trees for cellulose fuels. (Earth-friendly hemp is at least four times as efficient as trees for fuel, and is sustainable.)

Hempseed contains 30% (by volume) oil. This oil has been used to make high-grade diesel fuel oil and aircraft engine and precision machine oil. Throughout history, hempseed oil was used for lighting in oil lamps. Legend says the genie’s lamp burned hempseed oil, as did Abraham the prophet’s. In Abraham Lincoln’s time, only whale oil came near hempseed oil in popularity for fuel.

Hemp hurds are 77% cellulose – a primary chemical feed stock (industrial raw material) used in the production of chemicals, plastics and fibers.

I know it's a lot to read. Hopefully I'm still on topic. The source http://www.jackherer.com/thebook/chapter-nine/


The Rebuttal:

Jack Herer's book, The Emperor Wears No Clothes, edited by Chris Conrad, Lynn Osburn and Judy Osburn, provides fascinating reading. It was one of the major causes of the enormous increase in interest in fibre hemp in recent years. Although most of the information contained in the book is valid, some of its claims are clearly incorrect.

http://druglibrary.net/olsen/HEMP/IHA/iha01213.html

"Switchgrass is very productive when it's grown like corn in fertile soil with lots of fertilizer, pesticide and energy inputs, but this approach doesn't yield as much energy gain as mixed species in poor soil nor does it have the same environmental benefits," said Jason Hill, also of the University of Minnesota.

I think that hemp is an excellent candidate to fill the niche for an annual fibre crop in temperate climates. Hemp seems to be an attractive crop for a sustainable agricultural system, as it has moderate fertilizer requirements, needs little or no pesticides and suppresses weeds and some major soil-borne pathogens.

Hemp would be a greener option. I think if they applied Mycorrhizal fungi to the soil, it would grow even better.

 

[igrowone]

Thanks for your reply. I don't know what the cellulosistic ethanol process is, but is it similar to the biomass cracking Herer speaks of? He claims it is the same pyrolysis used to process fossil fuel today.

from what i've read, it's an enzyme process that breaks down cellulose to ferment-able sugars
these enzymes have been isolated, but are very expensive to produce
cracking sounds more like a high temperature process, that is what is done to oil products anyways, not sure what the numbers are on that process

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Herer[/b]]
* Henry Ford grew cannabis/hemp/marijuana on his estate after 1937, possibly to prove the cheapness of methanol production at Iron Mountain. He made plastic cars with wheat straw, hemp and sisal. (Popular Mechanics, Dec. 1941, “Pinch Hitters for Defense.”) In 1892, Rudolph Diesel invented the diesel engine, which he intended to fuel “by a variety of fuels, especially vegetable and seed oils.”

I bet Ford grew hemp for tire cord (before nylon came along in the 1930s.)

Ford even grew rubber trees in South America (Brazil?) to avoid the eastern rubber-pricing uncertainty.

LOL, Ford's rubber trees didn't produce when planted close together on his farm. The rubber farm and industrial plant have long sense been abandoned. He learned the hard way that rubber trees need the same spacing found in indigenous forests.