LIQUID KARMA is just KELP?

[Mountain]

Instead of Liquid Karma go with Roots Organics Trinity or Ancient Amber but can't remember which is the LK knock off.

As for humics/fulvics...for fulvic go with BioAg's Ful Power Humic. The label says Humic but it's really a fulvic product. There's some weird labeling laws so they're playing 'the game' a bit. For humic BioAg also makes some good products but can't remember the name(s). They using a electrolysis extraction process and not the typical, denaturing alkali/acid extraction methods...which produces crap. For soilless/soil applications HumaCarb is probably the best humic product available. For hydro and humics you need an extract which HumaCarb is not.

The thing you have to keep in mind with humic products is are they using the CDFA or IHSS test method cause you get 2 very different results. The highest humic levels you'll see is through the CDFA method...of which HumaCarb is over 25% but I think it's also 'seeing' lignins, waxes, etc. and not just humics...and an inherent weakness in the test methodology. Still I talked to the lab which tested HumaCarb and they've never seen a higher result.

 

[Mountain]

that's right about nitrozyme. It is great stuff-but unfeasably expensive for what it is. Nowdays I use this

Seacrop16 is a seaweed extract and pretty sure you can buy direct from the manufacturer. Vague remembrance of pricing the stuff out and inexpensive especially when compared to high end lines like Advanced or something like Nitrozyme...check it out!

 

[baet]

looks like i'll be picking up a bottle of Humax and tub of dry Maxicrop next. both of which i use outdoors with great success.

 

[Mountain]

looks like i'll be picking up a bottle of Humax and tub of dry Maxicrop next. both of which i use outdoors with great success.

Humax outdoors? HumaCarb will blow it away outdoors...guaranteed...and for like only $12 a gallon...lol.

 

[cocktail frank]

safer makes a pretty good fulvic.
also comes with a nice amt of mag in it too.
kill 2 birds w/ 1 stone IMO
cheap as shit to boot

 

[baet]

mountain- i've used Roots Organic before with sort of dissapointment.. everything seemed very watered down.
they're catalyst, Trinity: Molasses, Yucca Extract, Quillaja Extract, Kelp Extract, Soy Protein Hydrolysate, and Aloe Extract.

Contains Non-Plant Food Ingredient:
0.75% Humic Acid derived from Leonardite

it sounds awesome, i was stoked, but at $65 a gallon i was weary.

kelp makes any solution black, molasses is thick and sweet smelling and humic acid is black. Trinity was light brown and completely watered down and smelled like dirt, i couldn't picture too much molasses, kelp, or leonardite being present in the nutrient.. but who knows.

Gallon of Liquid Kelp Hydrolysate $19.99 ~ 8 cents a tbsp.
Humax (12% humic) $15.99 ~ 6 cents a tbsp.
Gallon of Molasses $4 w/ own bottle to fill ~ 2 cents a tbsp.
total = 16 cents a tbsp.

Gallon of Trinity $65 ~ 25 cents a tbsp


Roots Organic Ancient Amber is just their Humic Acid supplement, $40 a gallon @ .1% Humic Acid.

Ancient Amber .1% ~ 16 cents a gallon
Humax 12% ~ 6 cents a gallon

^^ granted Mountains explanation that two different tests are standard for Humic Acid, making comparing concentrations of opposing companies not very reasonable. except, .1% and 12% seems like an incredible difference even with two different tests..

for Humic Acid i love JHBiotech's Humax. but i am not sure how the humic acid is processed for JHBiotech wether it's through acids like an emulsion, or another superior method such as cold enzyme process.

mountain, ill check out BioAg

 

[baet]

MOUNTAIN- ^ shit sorry, i missed you most recent post. im definately going to check out HumaCarb

 

[baet]

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[baet]

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[baet]

cocktail frank-sounds perfect!

mountain can you site a link for purchasing HumaCarb please


also, my LK bottle says it has Humic ACid in it. i forgot who mentioned they took it out

 

[Mountain]

Roots Organic Ancient Amber is just their Humic Acid supplement, $40 a gallon @ .1% Humic Acid.

Ancient Amber .1% ~ 16 cents a gallon
Humax 12% ~ 6 cents a gallon

If you look at GH's Diamond Nectar they label it as a humic product but its' really a fulvic product...not a good one though...lol. California, and other states, do not allow manufacturers to make label claims regarding fulvic content. True humic products are much less expensive to make than true fulvic products as fulvic is really only the low molecular weight fraction of humics.

Just saying watch the products you are comparing to make sure apples-to-apples. Companies, even like Roots, try and hide things to get a leg up in the market. My only thing with Roots was really just the Liquid Karma comparison. I'd bet my left pinky that Ancient Amber is a fulvic and not humic product just like Diamond Nectar.

 

[baet]

mountain- i appreciate your help and suggestions. good information. i'd be interested to see a side by side with LK and Trinity though. they're close in price... not that it will probably ever happen, or happen effectively. anyways

 

[Mountain]

mountain can you site a link for purchasing HumaCarb please

It's made by Advancing Eco Agriculture in Ohio. They have no website. The developer and business owner is Amish. It has been tested on large scale agriculture...extensively. If you call just order it then do a side-by-side with Humax. AEA is used to selling 250 gallon totes and truckloads to farms and not dealing with canna growers wanting a gallon or two but pretty sure they have that size available. This product is NOT available in the regular retail market. Just one of the little gems I've stumbled across in my ongoing research . Best humic product for the money IMO. No hype, no label, no marketing group, no ads...just solid products at reasonable prices. This is NOT a humic product for DWC, rockwool but maybe hydroton. For sure good for coco, soilless and primo for soil indoors or out.

 

[baet]

thankyou! sounds solid, and who i like to deal with and give my money and support too.

 

[Mountain]

thankyou! sounds solid, and who i like to deal with and give my money and support too.

They're good people...and HumaCarb blew away any humic acid extract product they tested it against in the field...by a factor of X (like 3-4 times as effective) and not just a % under 100. Money well spent. Now that that's solved you can move on to your next issue...LOL!

You really don't need anything like Liquid Karma IMO...but it does work...just expensive when looking at the cost-to-benefit ratio.

Good luck in 2011!!!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

LK recommends 2 tsp. a gallon. so actually 30 cents a gallon OR 4x more expensive than alternative liquid kelp per gallon of nutrient solution.

Thanks for mentioning this. I noticed the gallon of kelp said one or two tablespoons. My comparison matches 1:1 or 2:2.

That's a great point, if it takes two teaspoons of LK and only one tablespoon of the gallon stuff, LK is 4x more expensive per app.

 

[EddieShoestring]

highvolt
nice one eddieshoestring
so do you use that seaweed (kelp) throughout the entire grow right up to flush ?

yeah-from cuttings stage up to 2-3weeks before the chop

cheers
eddieS

 

[kannubis]

here is a link to fulvic acid and a bunch of other stuff too

http://www.super-grow.biz/FulvicAcid.jsp

I have used the kelp/fulvic acid powder with no harm, but from the earlier water-placebo story, I don't know for certain that it did anything.

 

[whodair]

LIQUID KARMA is just KELP?

isnt kelp just seaweed ?? the nasty stuff that washes up on shore doesnt look too terribly expensive...

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Seaweed is a loose, colloquial term encompassing macroscopic, multicellular, benthic marine algae.[1] The term includes some members of the red, brown and green algae. Seaweeds can also be classified by use (as food, medicine, fertilizer, industrial, etc.).

A seaweed may belong to one of several groups of multicellular algae: the red algae, green algae, and brown algae. As these three groups are not thought to have a common multicellular ancestor, the seaweeds are a polyphyletic group. In addition, some tuft-forming bluegreen algae (Cyanobacteria) are sometimes considered as seaweeds — "seaweed" is a colloquial term and lacks a formal definition.





Kelps are large seaweeds (algae) belonging to the brown algae (Phaeophyceae) in the order Laminariales. There are about 30 different genera.[citation needed]

Kelps grow in underwater "forests" (kelp forests) in shallow oceans. The organisms require nutrient-rich water with temperatures below about 20 °C (68 °F). They are known for their high growth rate — the genera Macrocystis and Nereocystis can grow as fast as half a meter a day, ultimately reaching 30 to 80 m.[2]

In most kelp, the thallus (or body) consists of flat or leaf-like structures known as blades. Blades originate from elongated stem-like structures, the stipes. The holdfast, a root-like structure, anchors the kelp to the substrate of the ocean. Gas-filled bladders (pneumatocysts) form at the base of blades of American species, such as Nereocystis lueteana (Mert. & Post & Rupr.)[2] and keep the kelp blades close to the surface, holding up the blades by the gas they contain.