2kw perpetual garden..all organic for the first time

[Bennyweed1]

Whats up everyone? Welcome to my home. I have decided to upgraded my system and am shooting for the moon. I use to run a single 600w HPS in a 4x4 tent averaging 3-3.5Oz a week.

Now I upgraded to (2) 1000w HPS lights in a 5'w x10'L x 6.5'H tent. I tired my best to get everything I needed and not to cut corners with cheap stuff. I was able to purchase everything except my water cooled co2 gen. and monitor. That will come later.

What I do have is:
(1) 2'w x 4' L x 5'H grow tent which will house four mother plants and the clone area which will be lit by (1) 126 LED and a 50w 2 lamp T5.

(1) 4w x 4L x 6.5H grow tent which will be used as my veg tent. It will be lit by (3) 180w LEDs, so 540w total but I may only use 2 lights depending on the demand from the plants.

And then the Flower tent is as stated above, 5'w x10'L x 6.5'H which will by lit by 2000w of HPS sealed in aeroflow hoods attached to a 560CFM fan and carbon filter.

The plan is:

Add 5 plants to my veg tent every 7 days. Once I hit three rows, or three weeks, the third row will be placed into the flower tent and the cycle will be repeated every 7 days thus giving my a weekly harvest.


Soooo that is my new setup!!! I am so so happy to finally have it....I seriously have been planning this layout for 10 months and to finally have it done is just so awesome! I still need a couple more things to really make it complete like my co2 gen. and monitor but as of now im more then stoked!

Here is the big ass bloom tent...only one light is on.

***the attached pic isnt current...Its probably 2 weeks old I tihnk. Those are the first two weeks of plants in the flower tent. Slowly building up, week by week.

 

[Bennyweed1]

Hey everyone I put together my first video...bare with me please they will get better but please do watch it because I have some questions in it I would love some assistance with!

I refereed to a couple of things incorrectly like calling my soil acidic when I meant alkaline..ext..

Anyway here is the video...thanks for the help and support!


EDIT***

Here is the soil blend:
2.5 gallons top soil
2.5 gallons local organic potting soil
2.5 gallons peat
1 gallon cotton burr
1 gallon compost with mycorrhiza
1 gallon EWC
2.5 gallons perlite- large and little chunks


Blood meal – ¾ cup
Alfalfa – ¾ cup
Bat Guano N – ¾ cup

Kelp Meal – ¼ cup
Bone Meal – ½ cup
Bat Guano P – ¼ cup
Green Sand – 1/8 cup
Azomite – ½ cup
Dolomite lime 1 ½ cup
Rice Flour ¼ cup
Bene Bacteria ¼ cup
Diatomaceous earth – ¾ cup

I am thinking a potassium or magnesium def. all though I thought my soil would supply all of that, well at least the K but I am not sure about the Mg I thought dolo lime has the covered?

I was also thinking about variables I changed this grow from previous successful grows using soil(none organic) and the very main change that took place is my water source. Could my tap water be supplying to much of say calcium, iron or whatever else is in tap? My tap is about 155ppm out of the faucet, so today I am hooking up my RO/DI water filter to a float valve filling a 36g tote. What do you all think, you think it could be the water? The second main change is the new grow tent. Perhaps toxic chemical release from the tent itself? Doubtful but maybe?

---sorry about the shakeyness of the camera, I was kinda wippin around fast. Im a amature when it comes to filming, Ill improve though

 

[Bennyweed1]

I use dolo lime to buffer which seems to have my at 7.0 pH, I tested the run off yesterday. Which makes me think, now if everyone is using dolo lime to buffer then I would imagine everyones pH has to be similar to mine. I mean I would like to be at 6.8 but no matter if I add lime juice, vinegar , ext the soil will buffer back out to 7.0

Makes me think it is not a pH issue..

 

[Scrappy4]

Looking back at your soil mix, you are a little light on ewc. Like to make ewc a third of my mix. A top dress couldn't hurt.

Are you sure you have dolomite lime? I ask because it looks like it could be at least partially be mag def. But your lime should have mag covered. It took me two grows to figure out I had the wrong lime myself.

Do you have access to k mag or sul po mag? That would give you both k and mag. If not maybe a good mineral supplement or Epsom salt foliar would help along with a k source of whatever you have around......scrappy

 

[Bennyweed1]

Looking back at your soil mix, you are a little light on ewc. Like to make ewc a third of my mix. A top dress couldn't hurt.

Are you sure you have dolomite lime? I ask because it looks like it could be at least partially be mag def. But your lime should have mag covered. It took me two grows to figure out I had the wrong lime myself.

Do you have access to k mag or sul po mag? That would give you both k and mag. If not maybe a good mineral supplement or Epsom salt foliar would help along with a k source of whatever you have around......scrappy

Thanks for stopping in scrappy. I am using pulverized lime along with dried molasses which contains Mg, Ca,K, and a list of other elements normally associated with molasses, so Im very confused about my symptoms.

I think it may be my tap water so yesterday I went out and bought a float valve and hooked my RO/DI water filtration system up to a 36 gallon tote. Mixed in some hydrozyme to help break down the organic matter in my soil and even added .5 tbls to the 36 gallons.

Ill go from there.

 

[Bennyweed1]

I hooked my RO/DI system up to a 36g tote and installed a float valve, added two ceramic air stones and attached the air pump. I gotta say, its pretty nice not having to fill 5 gallon buckets up all the time just to evaporate the chlorine for another 72 hours.

I added the air stone because I figured, why not? More o2 the better right?

The best part of this all is.....my tap H2O goes into the filter at roughly 150-168ppm resting at about 8.0 pH. Its comes out of my filter at roughly 003-0010ppm resting at 6.5 pH or sometimes a little lower.

I think this is going to be the answer to my problem. Only time will tell.

I have reason to believe the tap was over supplying the plants with a certain element, which was messing up my sexy little ladies. That type of horse play dont sit well with me! Isnt that the point of organic soil, to supply the ladies everything they need?? So now that I am feeding the girls the str8t 2 hydrogen 1 oxygen they only require, perhaps things will turn around? Yeah!

And hear are some pics of the jacked up looking leafs, if anyone has some more good advise...please chime in, thanks !

 

[Scrappy4]

Thanks for stopping in scrappy. I am using pulverized lime along with dried molasses which contains Mg, Ca,K, and a list of other elements normally associated with molasses, so Im very confused about my symptoms.

I think it may be my tap water so yesterday I went out and bought a float valve and hooked my RO/DI water filtration system up to a 36 gallon tote. Mixed in some hydrozyme to help break down the organic matter in my soil and even added .5 tbls to the 36 gallons.

Ill go from there.

Hey , Benny my lime was pulverized too, but it was calcium carbonate at 34 % cal 4%. Mag, not dolomite and it screwed up my ph and the cal locked out mag. My plants looked a lot like yours. I got yellowing at 1week in. Hopefully your problem is/was water, and your on top of it. Good luck.....scrappy

 

[Bennyweed1]

You know...I hate having plant issues. It seems to never leave my mind!!!! Its like knowing someone is hurt and wanting to do everything you can for them and not stopping until you know absolutely that they are better. So.....

I was picking my brain a little more and decided to go over each ingredient I put into my soil and to my surprise I discovered my lime does not actually say what kind it is. It has no real pertinent information about what is in the bag other then the main label saying 'Agriculture limestone'.

From what I gathered from a sticky on the virtues of limestone, I think I have pulverized because its looks like flour and feels like flour but only heavier. But I have no idea the exact percentages of what it contains.

I am feeding with black strap molasses though and from my understanding, contains everything my plants indicate to be lacking in trace amounts. http://www.whfoods.com/foodchart.php?id=118 (calories...lol....I hope they dont get fat)


And despite the type of lime stone I do have, they all contain Mg,Ca, K, ext... so in conjunction with molasses, I should have enough. I just dont know if it is enough or not enough..........

 

[VerdantGreen]

hey bennyweed i think your issue may well be from the pH8 tapwater that you were using. also check that chloramine isnt being used.

my advice would be to get some citric acid to use as pH up (check the thread here about citric acid). RO water is not brilliant for soil, although you can improve it by mixing with your tapwater so as it has some ppm - around 50 would be good as this helps with buffering.

btw dolomite lime will not bring pH 8 back to 7 - it will only neutralize acid conditions - so it wont be helping with your tapwater. the dissolved cal and mag in the tapwater will help your plants as long as the pH isnt to high - hence the citric acid.

VG

 

[Scrappy4]

You know...I hate having plant issues. It seems to never leave my mind!!!! Its like knowing someone is hurt and wanting to do everything you can for them and not stopping until you know absolutely that they are better. So.....

I was picking my brain a little more and decided to go over each ingredient I put into my soil and to my surprise I discovered my lime does not actually say what kind it is. It has no real pertinent information about what is in the bag other then the main label saying 'Agriculture limestone'.

From what I gathered from a sticky on the virtues of limestone, I think I have pulverized because its looks like flour and feels like flour but only heavier. But I have no idea the exact percentages of what it contains.

In my case i bought my lime at the local feed and grain store. i asked for powdered dolomite lime, he asked why dolomite? what you using it for? I answered it was for herbs and veggies, and i wanted to add magnesium via the lime. He brought out a 50lb bag and said this is what you want. I did not know what the % were supposed to be, so i accepted it as dolomite even though it was 34% cal and 4% mag, my bad, now i know.........scrappy

 

[Bennyweed1]

hey bennyweed i think your issue may well be from the pH8 tapwater that you were using. also check that chloramine isnt being used.

my advice would be to get some citric acid to use as pH up (check the thread here about citric acid). RO water is not brilliant for soil, although you can improve it by mixing with your tapwater so as it has some ppm - around 50 would be good as this helps with buffering.

btw dolomite lime will not bring pH 8 back to 7 - it will only neutralize acid conditions - so it wont be helping with your tapwater. the dissolved cal and mag in the tapwater will help your plants as long as the pH isnt to high - hence the citric acid.

VG

Ahhh thank you VG! You told me something I did not know! I was under the assumption that dolo lime will correct pH despite whether it is acidic or alkaline. I didnt know it will only raise acidic pH to neutral not bring down alkaline to 7.0. Good Good to know. THANKS! I will cut my RO with tap water.

 

[Bennyweed1]

In my case i bought my lime at the local feed and grain store. i asked for powdered dolomite lime, he asked why dolomite? what you using it for? I answered it was for herbs and veggies, and i wanted to add magnesium via the lime. He brought out a 50lb bag and said this is what you want. I did not know what the % were supposed to be, so i accepted it as dolomite even though it was 34% cal and 4% mag, my bad, now i know.........scrappy

Good to know scraps! I am going to work on buying a different bag of lime. Something that list the percentages and what not. Plus the stuff really is dirt cheap. Thanks dude!!!

 

[3rdEye]

hey benny sorry to hear about the plant troubles. I have some agricultural limestone speedi grow brand
calcitic/dolomitic

the percentages/info:

CaCO3 = 75%
Ca = 30%
MgCO3 = 12%
Mg = 3%
CCE 95%

the other lime i use when i first mix up a batch of soil is Espoma pelletized

Ca = 21%
Mg = 10%
CaO = 29%
MgO = 17%
CaCO3 = 52%
MgCO3 = 35%
CCE = 93

I use them in about 3:1 (espoma : speedi grow) ratio when first adding to my base soil mix. As i am just now recycling my first batch (again!) i won't know how it performs, but i was not going to re-amend with much, if any, more lime. Reading up some more on amounts actually necessary.

I'm with them on adding a little bit of something, whether it be a sprinkle of lime or some EWC to the R/O water.

 

[Bennyweed1]

hey benny sorry to hear about the plant troubles. I have some agricultural limestone speedi grow brand
calcitic/dolomitic

the percentages/info:

CaCO3 = 75%
Ca = 30%
MgCO3 = 12%
Mg = 3%
CCE 95%

the other lime i use when i first mix up a batch of soil is Espoma pelletized

Ca = 21%
Mg = 10%
CaO = 29%
MgO = 17%
CaCO3 = 52%
MgCO3 = 35%
CCE = 93

I use them in about 3:1 (espoma : speedi grow) ratio when first adding to my base soil mix. As i am just now recycling my first batch (again!) i won't know how it performs, but i was not going to re-amend with much, if any, more lime. Reading up some more on amounts actually necessary.

I'm with them on adding a little bit of something, whether it be a sprinkle of lime or some EWC to the R/O water.

Thank you for your input. Come monday I plan on feeding everyone an EWC AACT. I think I am going to turn this around quickly but only time will tell and time is all I have...I suppose.

Have a great new years everyone and welcome 2011 with open arms. Lets all do our best to turn our planet into a greener world!

 

[Bennyweed1]

more pics??

Not yet, Im giving it time to see if changing my water source results in a positive change for the plants.

The plants seem to be drinking the RO/DI water a lot faster then before which I consider a very good sign.

I am mixing a brewed 5 gallon mixture of kelp/worm castings and molasses with 36 gallons of RO/DI H20 and about 2TSP of epsom salt.

Final pH 6.4 ---> not 8.2 or whatever....I was convinced pH didnt matter with orgnics but I wrong.

 

[ganja guy]

Benny heres a few things you might want to read. Not my info just what i found in the plant infirmary.



Phosphorus (P) Mobile Element and Macro Element

Benefit: Phosphorus does a lot of things for the plant. One of the most important parts of Phosphorus is: It aids in root growth and influences the vigor of the plant and is
one of the most important elements in flowering as well helps to germinate seedlings.
Phosphorus is an essential plant nutrient, and since it is needed in large amounts, it is classified as a macronutrient. Phosphorus is a MAJOR important nutrient in the plants reproductive stages. Without this element the plants will have a lot of problems blooming without proper levels of Phosphorus.


When your plants are deficient in phosphorus, this can overall reduce the size of your plants. Not enough causes slow growth and causes the plant to become weak, to little amount of Phosphorus causes slow growths in leaves that may or may not drop off. The edges all around the leaves or half of the leaves can be brownish and work its way inwards a bit causing the part of the leaves to curl up in the air a bit. Fan leaves will show dark greenish/purplish and yellowish tones along with a dullish blue color to them. Sometimes the stems can be red, along with red petioles that can happen when having a Phosphorus deficiency. This isn’t a sure sure sign of you having one though, but can be a sign. Some strains just show the red petioles and stems from its genes.
So pretty much the overall dark green color with a purple, red, or blue tint to the fan leaves is a good sign of a Phosphorus deficiency. Having Cold weather (below 50F/10C) can make phosphorous absorption very troublesome for plants.
Many people get a Phosphorus deficiency confused with a fungus problem because the ends of the leaves look like a fungus problem, But the damage occurs at the end of the leaves. side of the leaves and has a glass like feeling to it as if it had a ph problem. Parts affected by a phosphorus deficiency are: Older Leaves, Whole plant, Petioles.

Too much Phosphorus levels affect plant growth by suppressing the uptake of: Iron, potassium and Zinc, potentially causing deficiency symptoms of these nutrients to occur def in plants. A Zinc deficiency is most common under excessive phosphorus conditions,
As well as causing other nutrients to have absorption troubles like zinc and copper. Phosphorus fluctuates when concentrated and combined with calcium



Problems with Phosphorus being locked out by PH troubles
Cold wet soils, acid or very alkaline soils, compacted soil.


Soil

Phosphorus gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 4.0-5.5
Phosphorus is absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 6.0-7.5 (wouldn’t recommend having a ph of over 7.0 in soil) Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Phosphorus deficiency.






Problems with Phosphorus being locked out by PH troubles
Cold wet soils, acid or very alkaline soils, compacted soil.



Solution to fixing a Phosphorus deficiency
Some deficiency during flowering is normal, but too much shouldn't be tolerated. Any chemical or organic fertilizers that have Phosphorus in them will fix a Phosphorus deficiency. If you have a phosphorus deficiency you should use any N-P-K ratio that is over 5.Again Peters all purpose 20-20-20 is a good mix. Miracle grow Tomato plant food, Miracle grow All purpose plant food (Only mixing at ½ strength when using chemical nutrients, or it will cause nutrient burn!) Other forms of phosphorus supplements are: Bone meal, which is gradual absorption, I suggest making it into a tea for faster use, where bone/blood meal is slow acting, but when made into a tea it works quicker! Fruit eating bat guano, which is fast absorption, Worm castings, which is gradual absorption, Fish meal, which is medium absorption, Soft Rock Phosphate, which is medium absorption, Jamaican or Indonesian Guano, which is fast absorption. Crabshell, which is slow absorption. Tiger Bloom , which is fast absorption.

Here is a list of things to help fix a Phosphrus Deficiency.

Chemical

Advanced nutrients Bloom (0-5-4)
Vita Bloom (0-7-5)
BC Bloom (1.1-4.4-7)
GH Flora Bloom (0-5-4)
GH Maxi Bloom (5-15-14)
GH Floranova Bloom (4-8-7)
Dyna-Gro Bloom (3-12-6)
Fox Farm Tiger Bloom (2-8-4)
Awsome Blossums

Organic

Dr. Hornby's Iguana Juice Bloom (4-3-6)
Advanced Nutrients Mother Earth Bloom (.5-1.5-2)
Fox Farm Big Bloom (.01-.3-.7)
Earth Juice Bloom (0-3-1)
Pure Blend Bloom (2.5-2-5)
Pure Blend Pro Bloom (2.5-2-5)
Buddswell (0-7-0)
Sea Island Jamaican Bat Guano (1-10-0)
Indonesian Bat Guano (0-13-0)
Rainbow Mix Bloom (1-9-2)
Earth Juice Bloom (0-3-1)
BIO BLOOM (2-6-3.5)
AGE OLD BLOOM (5-10-5)
ALASKA MORBLOOM (0-10-10)
METANATURALS ORGANIC BLOOM (1-5-5)


Any of these will cure your phosphorus deficiency. Affected leaves will not show recovery but new growth will appear normal.


Now if you added to much chemical ferts and or organics,( which is hard to burn your plants when using organics) You need to Flush the soil with plain water. You need to use 2 times as much water as the size of the pot, for example: If you have a 5 gallon pot and need to flush it, you need to use 10 gallons of water to rinse out the soil good enough to get rid of excessive nutrients.


Note: Blood Meal, Dried Blood, Guanos, Kelp Meal, Cotton Seed Meal, Peat Moss,
Sulfur and fish meal are all acidic and can bring your ph down, so if you add these please monitor your ph when using those.

Note: Bone Meal, Rock Phosphate, Wood Ashes pretty much all ashes, Shellfish Compost and Crab Meal are all alkaline and can make your ph go up, so if you add any of these please monitor your ph.



Picture 1 is a Phosphorus deficiency during vegetative growth.
Picture 2 is what a phosphorus deficiency looks like in flowering.
Picture 3 shows phosphorus being locked out due to cold temps for the seedling

(Picture 1 is Mine)




Photo Credit:TikTok420

 

[ganja guy]

heres the whole thread i pulled this from so you can see the pics


http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688

 

[Bennyweed1]

^^^Thanks for the post dude! I think with all the good information I received I narrowed down the problem.

I feel pretty safe saying it was caused by the pH of my tap water. Being to alkaline, it was was causing K to lock out...or so I believe. Lime cant bring down an alkaline pH, it can only raise an Acid pH to 7.

Now that I have the RO/DI water on constant supply, I simply dip in a 5 gallon bucket, remove 5 gallons of clean H2O and brew a nice kelp, worm casting tea everyday 3rd watering or so. Plants really love it, I can tell! So that is a huge relief.....

Here is a new video i whipped up.

 

[3rdEye]

Excellent news benny Looks like you got things to turn around quick.

 

[ganja guy]

right on man glad to see everythings working out.