Senate Bill S 510 Food Safety Modernization Act vote imminent: Would outlaw gardening

[CaptainTrips]

Anybody remember the peeps that died from poisoned spinach? The process was unsanitary. This bill would force business to get it's shit together.

Do you sell your own fruit and veggies at the market? You won't be affected.

Business always pulls this shit, they face regulation and cry that you'll lose personal freedoms.

And? No bill will ever make the food chain 100% safe. Only way to be sure you have somewhat safe food is to produce your own.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Keep in mind that the big spinach oubreak last year originated at "Earthbound Farms", the largest ORGANIC producer of vegetables in the US. I believe it is owned by Dole. The cause was a few stray animals that had wondered across the land and shit somewhere. Try and regulate that?? 2000 pages of rules, with penalties to follow, written by unelected bumble brained bureaucrats, none of whom have ever been to a farm or know anything about farming. And to anyone who doesn't think it will come down to government thuggery, been to an airport lately??

Internet forums are great. Accept when posts contain assumptions while Google sits idly.

The truth is, everybody — organic and industrial — uses manure. If they didn't, we'd be drowning in it. One dairy cow produces more than 10 tons of shit a year. Except organic producers are the only ones who have regulations for its use. To get the USDA's "certified organic" label, farmers can’t use "raw manure less than 120 days prior to harvesting crops whose edible portion has direct contact with soil or soil surface, or less than 90 days prior to harvesting crops whose edible portion does not have direct contact with soil or the soil surface" (here are the regulations; search for "manure").

http://www.ethicurean.com/2006/09/16/earthbound-farm/

But just in case a couple of rogue animals traipsed the farm and pooped on the spinich, it wasn't too cool to put that stuff in a bag and sell it.

Ever seen the "Triple Washed" bags of fresh greens at the grocer?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

And? No bill will ever make the food chain 100% safe. Only way to be sure you have somewhat safe food is to produce your own.

And...

Ever heard of Upton Sinclair? He was not unlike Ralph Nader in the 1920s, exposing food processors as filthy greedsters.

No single bill will make anything 100% safe, good, fair, balanced, yada yada. That's why government is perpetual. It's the nature of the business.

Stop regulating the big food producers, you'll eventually end up with ground rats in the sausage like the 1920s. Check out The Jungle.You'll see what the meat packing industry did when we we looked the other way.

 

[Space Ghost]

fuk da police...

wait... what?

 

[trichrider]

those who control the food...and we have mostly lost any semblence of self sufficeincy...who wants control of the food to go to china? the ones who profit by it going there, ie: big agro...GM food and seed are only just the beginning.
sadly.

 

[goshbongit]

The most dangerous bill that has already been passed and signed into law is "The Patriot Act". GAME OVER!! Freedom loses.

 

[ibjamming]

The most dangerous bill that has already been passed and signed into law is "The Patriot Act". GAME OVER!! Freedom loses.

BINGO!

ANYONE who is "trouble" is a terrorist.

Obama renewed OTHER things besides the Bush tax cuts...he also renewed HIS right to have people locked up ONLY on his word! If Wikileaks were US based they'd ALL be locked up. For whistle-blowing...nothing more. Nobody was put in danger. Troops in Iraq and Afghanastan still gave out their weekly ration of stacks of $100s...there wasn't any shooting. This is the first "bribery war" I know of...where we PAY the enemy not to fight. Why do you think the problem is only with the "insurgents"? Because everyone else is on the US payroll.

Yup...they should have just called it the "Fuck you...I OWN your ass!" act...the "We make the rules now" act.

Frogs slowly boiling...

 

[ronbo51]

Took a break and watched some football, surfed around and saw a bit of "Modern Marvels". It was about potatoes. Not surprising the largest producer of potatoes is.....China. Also not surprising largest exporter of spuds to the US is....yeah, who else. Do you think those spuds were grown organically? with any regard for anyone who might touch them, eat them, or the growers in the field. These stupid regulations just insure that more of our food will be grown far from the regulators as more and more farmers throw their hands up and cry Uncle. The same reasons companies have moved so much manufacturing to China holds true to agriculture production. I was organic certified for almost 20 years both as a vegetable grower and mushroom grower and I am well aware of the rules for manure storage and application. Almost all raw manure is held in lagoons and then sprayed on hay fields. The lagoons leak and the hay fields run off into watersheds. Everyone follows the rules but the rules make NOTHING better. But the very large AG concerns just march onward as their highly paid lobbyists write bills that force small growers out of business. Just like the Banking bill will force small and midsize banks out (can you say thanks Goldman Sachs and BOA) and the Healthcare bill will force the collapse of 1/7'th of our economy that is directly health care related and put it in the hands of Kathleen Sebelius. Just what are her qualifications to run healthcare anyway? You don't have to be much of a radical to understand that these bills are designed to control us and limit our freedoms, but the language used to seduce us calls to our weaknesses as human beings.

 

[Greensub]

So far I'm only about 50 pages into the bill, nothing scary to far, there are exceptions to everything for the small farmer & business.

For example the records keeping clause excepts farms & restraunts

If the Secretary believes that there is a rea
11 sonable probability that the use of or exposure to an
12 article of food, and any other article of food that the
13 Secretary reasonably believes is likely to be affected
14 in a similar manner, will cause serious adverse
15 health consequences or death to humans or animals,
16 each person (excluding farms and restaurants) who
17 manufactures, processes, packs, distributes, receives,
18 holds, or imports such article shall, at the request of
19 an officer or employee duly designated by the Sec
20 retary, permit such officer or employee, upon presen
21 tation of appropriate credentials and a written notice
22 to such person, at reasonable times and within rea
23 sonable limits and in a reasonable manner, to have
24 access to and copy all records relating to such article
25 and to any other article of food that the Secretary

5
† S 510 ES

1 reasonably believes is likely to be affected in a simi
2 lar manner, that are needed to assist the Secretary
3 in determining whether there is a reasonable prob
4 ability that the use of or exposure to the food will
5 cause serious adverse health consequences or death
6 to humans or animals.

and for retail food establishments, if you're small & sell where you grow, your exempt.

20 (A) the sale of such food products or food
21 directly to consumers by such establishment at
22 a roadside stand or farmers’ market where such
23 stand or market is located other than where the
24 food was manufactured or processed;

I guess we can legitimatly argue over the next part... is a $500,000 average revenue big enough to be included?

‘‘(C) LIMITED ANNUAL MONETARY VALUE
2 OF SALES.—
3 ‘‘(i) IN GENERAL.—A facility is a
4 qualified facility under this subparagraph
5 if clause (ii) applies—
6 ‘‘(I) to the facility, including any
7 subsidiary or affiliate of the facility,
8 collectively; and
9 ‘‘(II) to the subsidiaries or affili
10 ates, collectively, of any entity of
11 which the facility is a subsidiary or af
12 filiate.
13 ‘‘(ii) AVERAGE ANNUAL MONETARY
14 VALUE.—This clause applies if—
15 ‘‘(I) during the 3-year period pre
16 ceding the applicable calendar year,
17 the average annual monetary value of
18 the food manufactured, processed,
19 packed, or held at such facility (or the
20 collective average annual monetary
21 value of such food at any subsidiary
22 or affiliate, as described in clause (i))
23 that is sold directly to qualified end
24 users during such period exceeded the
25 average annual monetary value of the

21
† S 510 ES

1 food manufactured, processed, packed,
2 or held at such facility (or the collec
3 tive average annual monetary value of
4 such food at any subsidiary or affil
5 iate, as so described) sold by such fa
6 cility (or collectively by any such sub
7 sidiary or affiliate) to all other pur
8 chasers during such period; and
9 ‘‘(II) the average annual mone
10 tary value of all food sold by such fa
11 cility (or the collective average annual
12 monetary value of such food sold by
13 any subsidiary or affiliate, as de
14 scribed in clause n(i)) during such pe
15 riod was less tha $500,000, adjusted
16 for inflation.
17 ‘‘(2) EXEMPTION.—A qualified facility—
18 ‘‘(A) shall not be subject to the require
19 ments under subsections (a) through (i) and
20 subsection in an applicable calendar year;
21 and
22 ‘‘(B) shall submit to the Secretary—
23 ‘‘(i)(I) documentation that dem
24 onstrates that the owner, operator, or
25 agent in charge of the facility has identi

22
† S 510 ES

1 fied potential hazards associated with the
2 food being produced, is implementing pre3
ventive controls to address the hazards,
4 and is monitoring the preventive controls
5 to ensure that such controls are effective;
6 or
7 ‘‘(II) documentation (which may in
8 clude licenses, inspection reports, certifi
9 cates, permits, credentials, certification by
10 an appropriate agency (such as a State de
11 partment of agriculture), or other evidence
12 of oversight), as specified by the Secretary,
13 that the facility is in compliance with
14 State, local, county, or other applicable
15 non-Federal food safety law; and
16 ‘‘(ii) documentation, as specified by
17 the Secretary in a guidance document
18 issued not later than 1 year after the date
19 of enactment of this section, that the facil
20 ity is a qualified facility under paragraph
21 (1)(B) or (1)(C).

Before I believe anything about this bill I want to see the quote with the page included from the bill so I can read it (and before and after to understand all the exemptions and requirements) That shows all this negative stuff that happens.

Kudoes to Disco Biscuit for bringing up The Jungle by Upton Sinclair. Unlike "Atlas Shrugged" it isn't a book based on what could happen but rather it's based on what did happen.

 

[Greensub]

Took a break and watched some football, surfed around and saw a bit of "Modern Marvels". It was about potatoes. Not surprising the largest producer of potatoes is.....China. Also not surprising largest exporter of spuds to the US is....yeah, who else. Do you think those spuds were grown organically? with any regard for anyone who might touch them, eat them, or the growers in the field. These stupid regulations just insure that more of our food will be grown far from the regulators as more and more farmers throw their hands up and cry Uncle. The same reasons companies have moved so much manufacturing to China holds true to agriculture production. I was organic certified for almost 20 years both as a vegetable grower and mushroom grower and I am well aware of the rules for manure storage and application. Almost all raw manure is held in lagoons and then sprayed on hay fields. The lagoons leak and the hay fields run off into watersheds. Everyone follows the rules but the rules make NOTHING better. But the very large AG concerns just march onward as their highly paid lobbyists write bills that force small growers out of business. Just like the Banking bill will force small and midsize banks out (can you say thanks Goldman Sachs and BOA) and the Healthcare bill will force the collapse of 1/7'th of our economy that is directly health care related and put it in the hands of Kathleen Sebelius. Just what are her qualifications to run healthcare anyway? You don't have to be much of a radical to understand that these bills are designed to control us and limit our freedoms, but the language used to seduce us calls to our weaknesses as human beings.

There's a whole section on new rules for imported food, much more regulations on them than the small farmer here.

TITLE III—IMPROVING THE SAFETY OF IMPORTED FOOD
Sec. 301. Foreign supplier verification program.
Sec. 302. Voluntary qualified importer program.
Sec. 303. Authority to require import certifications for food.
Sec. 304. Prior notice of imported food shipments.
Sec. 305. Building capacity of foreign governments with respect to food safety.
Sec. 306. Inspection of foreign food facilities.
Sec. 307. Accreditation of third-party auditors.
Sec. 308. Foreign offices of the Food and Drug Administration.
Sec. 309. Smuggled food.

I haven't read that section yet... anyone feel free to tell us how it screws over the small farmer (or backyard gardener).

Oh ya... here's the link for the bill

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-111s510es/pdf/BILLS-111s510es.pdf

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Excellent info, Greensub.

 

[Greensub]

Thanks... I just prefer to argue about the actual Text of a bill... rather than the paranoid delusions of what someone Thinks it says.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Excellent idea. I think most are scared because legislation gets written by lawyers and politicians and we all know how much public trust there is of those two groups. I do try to "read between the lines" or look for possible loopholes when reading legislation because we all know that it ultimately will come down to a judge's "interpretation".

I think the scared ones are up in arms from radio/tv shock jocks. Not 20th century crudesters like Howard Stern but the politically and conspiratorially motivated.

The wilder the fantasy, the more ad space sold. Oh yeah, throw in a democratic president, speaker and majority leader.

 

[Greensub]

Ya, I listen to a lot of talk radio (rush, hannity, levin), it's just ridiculous the amount of misinformation that's coming over the airwaves.

I also listen to the left leaning hosts too (randy rhodes... I'm having trouble remembering their names off hand... I'll probably come back and edit this), they've been good at showing the logical flaws in the arguments, but they're just on a handful of stations nationwide comparatively.

IMO... If I'm moving $500,000 a year of product... that's a lot of people that my actions can impact if I do something wrong. I'd better have my shit together or I could hurt a lot of people. I don't see what's wrong with the government requiring professional standards of me... I should already be doing so already.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Haha, Jesse sold out and pipes conspiracy for cash. Hate to say it but he's a distant cousin of SP now. At least he's not a potential, national candidate. Hell, he couldn't run for national office now.

The News Hour on PBS is like watching paint dry but you won't get any crap. Cable has some pretty biased (news, not opinion) commentators that do well by the facts. Some of them even correct their own ducks and apologies aren't like pulling teeth. The rest of the time these guys are pretty good with the fact checking.

Who cares if there's no more non opinionated cable news hosts? I'm usually pretty good at discerning fact from the respective host's views. (a good host won't muss things up) I get my information and I can accept the host's POV or not.

 

[Greensub]

Who cares if there's no more non opinionated cable news hosts? I'm usually pretty good at discerning fact from the respective host's views. (a good host won't muss things up) I get my information and I can accept the host's POV or not.

Ya... I like to watch them argue it out from both sides, you just have to do some fact checking on your own to see who's delusional.

Funny & Sad at the same time.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I used to like watching Ron Reagan Jr. Monica Crowley was the cohost and I never saw Ron fail to win a debate.

Monica Crowley is Alan Colmes sister-in-law, yikes!

 

[ibjamming]

I got responses from my two state senators both informing me that a provision had been added to the bill before it passed that makes it not applicable to any farmer earning less than $500,000/yr. Just figured I'd let it be known.

THAT can easily be changed once the law is in place. Wait until a big outbreak of sickness...they'll clamp down then. On everyone, and won't let up once it's over. Even if it's found to have come from an institutional farm. It's how it ALWAYS goes.

Excellent idea. I think most are scared because legislation gets written by lawyers and politicians and we all know how much public trust there is of those two groups. I do try to "read between the lines" or look for possible loopholes when reading legislation because we all know that it ultimately will come down to a judge's "interpretation".

NO...legislation get's written by the corporations who pay the lobbyists to pay the representative that they placed there to vote the way they want. Business and government are the SAME people moving back and forth...CEO...high level government position...back to business as a "consultant". "Government" is a big joke. "Elections" are a big joke. Just WHOM are you voting for? Two people who were PLACED there by business. You can't get elected without money and support...from business.

Wake up people!

I think the scared ones are up in arms from radio/tv shock jocks. Not 20th century crudesters like Howard Stern but the politically and conspiratorially motivated.

The wilder the fantasy, the more ad space sold. Oh yeah, throw in a democratic president, speaker and majority leader.

No...they're up in arms because "innocent" laws meant to "protect" us...lead to shit like being groped, having your 4 y/o kids molested, and nudies of your wife taken at the airport. THAT is fucked up! This is just the boot being pushed onto our necks a little harder.

I figure there are people selling to both sides. I have yet to find a truly unbiased, honest, non-sensationalist news source yet. (Except Jesse Ventura of course!)

Good luck with that! The MSM is a corporation just like the rest. It will tell you 1st what IT wants you to hear...and second...what it's paid or TOLD to tell you. That's it. Occasionally a real story gets thrown in to give the illusion of credibility...

Ya... I like to watch them argue it out from both sides, you just have to do some fact checking on your own to see who's delusional.

Funny & Sad at the same time.

Two sides to keep us divided...the more things they can do to keep us each divided and against each other...religion, lib/con, Rep/Dem, black/white, native/foreigner...etc...the easier we are to control. It keeps us from identifying too closely with anyone. Keeps us from uniting and banding together. Some won't come because there are Jews there...or blacks...or Mexicans. They KNOW this...they use this against us. We're manipulated daily...hourly...by the second...by professional "marketers" (manipulators).

The thing we should all agree on is...we have a too big and too powerful a government. Our freedoms ARE being taken from us year by year. Soon what will be left?

 

[SpasticGramps]

American news outlets are propaganda machines controlling the two sided narrative. All of it garbage IMO. Not a bit of journalism.

Your government is the corporation. They are the same entity. Lobbyist for the corporations write the laws. So goes fascism. To think that one party or the other is looking out for our interest is beyond me. The system is rotten to the core and has been for 100 years. There is only one party. Everything else is noise.

 

[HempKat]

DO NOTHING Congress? They've done more damage to the country than any Congress before...look at all they did...ruined health care, ruined the military, ruined the country...

Healthcare is just fine in my country, I don't know what country you're from but in my country I go to the doctor, get whatever problem I have treated and that's it. Healthcare is just fine. Of course that's likely because congress didn't do jack to healthcare. What they did was reform health insurance. If you were on health insurance before though as many American's were, then the reform had no impact on you. The military is also fine in my Country, they did recently allow gays to start serving openly but they asked all the troops if they would mind first and the troops said, "go ahead, no problem".

The country was in a shambles from the ass raping the previous administration gave the economy but it's on the rebound now. Still even though they did do health insurance reform, and they did away with "Don't ask, Don't tell" that's just two things. There's alot more wrong with the country then those two things and those two things aren't even the most serious issues we need to deal with. So yeah it's still a do nothing congress because they get little done and what they do get done isn't even the things that affect the average citizen the most. I mean hell, they can take care of whether or not gays can serve openly but they can't even pass an annual budget?