Cop shots and kills deaf wood carver

[ddrew]

Just watched it again... it's looks to me that the cop has already drawn his weapon as he passes in front of the patrol car. It's a little quick but he's got it in his right hand unless someone else can identify better what it is he's holding.

So I don't see how the 21' rule even applies. He doesn't need 1.5 sec. to draw his weapon, he's already done so.

That's what I was saying, he was already drawn down on the guy, so that 21 foot, 1.5 second stuff kinda goes right out the window.

I enjoy going to the range, the time it takes for me to pull the trigger when my finger's already on it, a fraction of a second at most.

The poor guy never had a chance.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I hear that. I was trained to triple tap when needed. 2 to center mass then aim for the head. If it's still there he's still standing and therefore still a threat.

It sounds like "training" needs scrapped and rebuilt from the ground up.

Is it possible that he closed that distance knowing he was getting into that "circle of death"?

 

[mean mr.mustard]

The moral of the story I got is: Roll up in a ball whenever anybody says anything to you... if you think they are within 21 feet, immediately begin surrendering VOCALIZATIONS without moving your mouth or any part of your body. No gestures!

In case it was a cop that was saying something, you may retain a chance of survivial.

Is that about right?

 

[mean mr.mustard]

If I really wanted to go home at night I wouldn't put myself in a position to get shot at.

But I guess I already have.

 

[Applesauce]

The report said it appeared he was in fact shot from behind. What is your justification now budlover13? I agree that people should be innocent until proven guilty.. but every one of your posts seems to find some new reasoning for what or what could have been when so far everything points to the contrary. A deaf man, carrying a legal pocket knife, walking down the road is approached by an officer from behind with his gun already drawn. First off, is this standard protocol? Police are allowed to draw on you for walking down the road with a 3 inch pocket knife, carving a wood sculpture? Next, he himself APPROACHES the victim FROM BEHIND with his gun drawn, gives an order and 5 seconds later he is shooting the victim from behind 5 times? Then he lets him bleed out on the sidewalk. The knife closed when he fell to the ground? What? Are you serious? This is murder.

 

[Pipe Dream]

The report said it appeared he was in fact shot from behind. What is your justification now budlover13? I agree that people should be innocent until proven guilty.. but every one of your posts seems to find some new reasoning for what or what could have been when so far everything points to the contrary. A deaf man, carrying a legal pocket knife, walking down the road is approached by an officer from behind with his gun already drawn. First off, is this standard protocol? Police are allowed to draw on you for walking down the road with a 3 inch pocket knife, carving a wood sculpture? Next, he himself APPROACHES the victim FROM BEHIND with his gun drawn, gives an order and 5 seconds later he is shooting the victim from behind 5 times? Then he lets him bleed out on the sidewalk. The knife closed when he fell to the ground? What? Are you serious? This is murder.

Obviously the cop was just trying to protect the man it's dangerous to walk with a knife.

seriously though...I don't know whether to puke or cry.

 

[mtbazz]

Geez...and people that know me wonder why I dislike and have a strong distrust of cops.

The cop lovers out there, and "sheeple" will try and find some kind of justification for this officers actions.

I have seen, and been pulled over by cops like this. These guys generally have low intelligence, and anger and control issues.

Why is it that in almost any professional field these days you are required to have a college education of some sort, while being a cop in almost all cases requires NO college education.

 

[ddrew]

Obviously the cop was just trying to protect the man it's dangerous to walk with a knife.

seriously though...I don't know whether to puke or cry.

Just imagine if he had been running with a pair of scissors, cop probably would have broke out the riot gun and started blasting.

He murdered that guy.
That guys family will get a HUGE settlement for this.
If it was a member of my family that got shot down like that, they could keep the money, I'd want that cops head on a stake in my front yard.

 

[draco]

I feel for Mr. Williams. I also feel for the officer because he will now replay the situation over and over. It is very possible that his actions were justified, at least in HIS mind. We will never see full video where we can observe the situation and how it all unfolded. I just wish it had all happened on camera so everyone could SEE instead of just hear.

None of us can say, based on the video, whether the officer was justified or not. We couldn't see the man's reactions or movements. The officer relied on his training in a volatile situation. That 21' circle of death is no joke. As for shooting him 5 times, he is trained that when you have made the decision to fire, you continue firing until the subject "ceases being a threat" which is commonly accepted to be the point at which he stops moving. The 5 shots came VERY rapidly. As for shooting him in the back, again we can't see how it went down. Did Mr Williams turn his body as the shots were fired in an attempt to shield himself? Did he turn his back after being hit by the first round?

I just know that the cop was pretty scared. If you notice, he waits for back-up before even approaching? And reluctantly assumes the role of "designated shooter" since his weapon has already been fired?

while there are always two sides to any story, i'm siding with the deaf guy. kind of like the BP spill... it's hard to sympathize wit the perp. yes the cop in this case IS the perp. will he have some problems sleeping? he should...

 

[mtbazz]

I feel for Mr. Williams. I also feel for the officer because he will now replay the situation over and over. It is very possible that his actions were justified, at least in HIS mind. We will never see full video where we can observe the situation and how it all unfolded. I just wish it had all happened on camera so everyone could SEE instead of just hear.

None of us can say, based on the video, whether the officer was justified or not. We couldn't see the man's reactions or movements. The officer relied on his training in a volatile situation. That 21' circle of death is no joke. As for shooting him 5 times, he is trained that when you have made the decision to fire, you continue firing until the subject "ceases being a threat" which is commonly accepted to be the point at which he stops moving. The 5 shots came VERY rapidly. As for shooting him in the back, again we can't see how it went down. Did Mr Williams turn his body as the shots were fired in an attempt to shield himself? Did he turn his back after being hit by the first round?

I just know that the cop was pretty scared. If you notice, he waits for back-up before even approaching? And reluctantly assumes the role of "designated shooter" since his weapon has already been fired?

After watching the video it is hard for me to have any sympathy for the officer at all, and I hope the guy goes to his grave reliving every single second of that encounter.

In the video he can clearly be heard saying "he had a knife and he wouldnt put it down", not that he was being attacked by the guy. Id understand it if the officer used mace or a taser to disarm the guy, but this is just another example of a gung-ho, power hungry, trigger happy person who had no business being a cop.

 

[ddrew]

I'm getting ready to make a sandwich for myself and I'm scared, I mean what if a cop drives by and looks in my window as I'm cutting it in half?
I could get shot to death.

 

[baan]

Simple. The guy was a drunk, and essentially a dot on the illusion of society. So they didn't like him and killed him, because they felt justified killing a guy who they wouldn't want going out with their daughter. Just like the gestapo. In my opinion this could be what happened. "You did the right thing", well, why would you feel the need to say this if your buddys life was in danger? "I'm glad you're alive and OK" seems to be more along the lines of what you would tell somebody who was attacked.

I can't get over the feeling that he was intentionally murdured, and that people planned for him to be. But then again I wasn't there.

 

[VIKINGtrich]

What a piece of fucking rotten pig shit, the poor soul who was murdered is in heaven and that murderer is going to hell. Sad sad sad day for us all when these things happen.

I Sincerely hope so, I really do, Shit! His mother and father should go to Hell for having him. What a big burlap bag of shit!

 

[Pipe Dream]

It is MY opinion as an ex-cop that an officer should be held to a higher standard of conduct than the average citizen unlike the way it is now. But there's a fine line that is very blurry because you can't make it impossible for them to do their jobs either. I don't expect them to willingly sacrifice their lives, I expect that of no one, I do expect them to behave in such a manner as to be a role-model for our children..

I agree that police officers should set an example but I don't think they should be held to a higher standard than anyone else because we are all human and we all make mistakes. This man should be tried for murder like any other person in a similar situation where they attacked an innocent person and suffer the consequences. Cops go through training and this cannot be standard protocol which makes the fact that he's a cop irrelevant. I do believe cops should willingly sacrifice their lives if it would save the life of a defenseless, innocent citizen. Even if the man had been threatening the cop with a knife shooting him dead is not the answer, all it would take is a single non lethal shot to stop the situation and obviously back up was not far away. Why are cops so damn afraid of knives and rakes (another deaf man was gunned down by a cop for weilding a rake) when they are trained and have every available resource at their disposal?

Just like many other scenarios, only the bad deeds get any attention which is unfortunate but also just the way it is. My parents taught me to respect cops and laws but as I grew up I learned that cops are not my friends and are above the same laws that I am supposed to follow. As an idividual I can respect a LEO and even consider them nice or a good guy but will never respect a cop for being a cop and will never trust them. I won't even call the cops unless it's to absolutely necessary. If cops want to be improve their standing with communities they need to stop treating the people they are sworn to protect as lessers and let their actions be their proof of character. As it stands they are trained to be suspicious of everyone and that we are somehow inferior and an obstacle in their way and that morals and ethics are nonexistent.

The hardest part of this to swallow is that everyone is patting him on the back and that the cops actually justify this guys actions. Regardless of the things your taught about your job you should have a concious, principles, and think for yourself and they should be ashamed that they stand behind this guy it cheapens everything that they ave done and will ever do and I hope that this will bring upon at least some positive change although I feel that it's becoming more accetable among LEO.

 

[goshbongit]

In WW2 Germany it was the SS. In todays USA it is LEO.

 

[goshbongit]

If they confiscate our guns and ammo...only professional killers will have guns and ammo.

 

[goshbongit]

I personally don't like the idea of not having a weapon when the other guy does have a weapon (especially a firearm). But a deaf man with a 3 inch folding wood carving knife is no match for a legal gun happy professional killer. That poor man didn't have a chance and neither does any common citizen as long as we have people training other people to make the kind of decisions that cost John Williams his LIFE. There is absolutly no excuse for this HOMICIDE.

 

[Maria_Vanessa]

The victim John on the left, his brother Rick on the right.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-his-life-around-brother-says/article1844083/

Native carver shot by officer was turning his life around, brother says
IAN BAILEY AND BRENNAN CLARKE
SEATTLE AND VICTORIA— From Monday's Globe and Mail
Published Sunday, Dec. 19, 2010 10:35PM EST
Last updated Sunday, Dec. 19, 2010 11:18PM EST

After years of struggling with alcohol, John T. Williams had decided to change his life

His brother, Rick, last saw John – a member of Vancouver Island first nation and a long-time resident of Seattle – strolling away from the park where they were chatting. John was going to pick up his stuff from a home for alcoholics so he could move in with Rick at the motel where his brother lives.

It was Aug. 30. Fifty-year-old John, a carver of formidable talent, said he was going to give up the drinking that had dogged him and start fresh.

All of Seattle knows what happened next, and it continues to have resonance in British Columbia, given Mr. Williams’s native background. Mr. Williams was shot dead by a police officer who saw him carrying a knife that he used for the intricate carvings he sold.

“The day we saw John, he went up to his place to come and move in with us and quit drinking,” Rick Williams recalled Sunday, standing outside the Daybreak Star Indian Cultural Centre where he was displaying his carvings.

“He said, ‘I’ll be right back.’ I never saw him again.”

Born on the remote Ditidaht First Nation on Vancouver Island, Mr. Williams was one of seven children who learned the art of wood carving from their father, Ray Williams.

Just after 4 p.m., John Williams was shot four times on the street by Seattle police officer Ian Birk.

Officer Birk, who is 27 and joined the force in 2007, has said in a statement that Mr. Williams was brandishing the knife in a “very confrontational posture” and that he opened fire because he feared for his life.

Now key elements of the 10-second encounter are on display in a video shot by a camera on the dashboard of Officer Birk’s police cruiser.

The video was ordered released last week by judicial order. It stands to figure in an inquest next month into the case.

The core of the confrontation is not seen on the video. We see Mr. Williams cross an intersection in front of the cruiser. We then see Officer Birk jump out of his car and run after Mr. Williams.

The confrontation plays out off camera, but one can hear the officer yelling for Mr. Williams to drop his knife – and then the shots.

Rick Williams said Sunday his brother was hard of hearing, so much so you would have to lean in to speak to him, so it is doubtful he would have heard the police officer’s orders.

“Am I outraged? Yes, I am furious,” he said. “I have to constantly control myself.”

The Seattle Police Department’s firearms review board as well as the city’s police chief, John Diaz, concluded in October that the shooting was not justified, The Seattle Times has reported. However, a decision on the point is on hold pending the outcome of the inquest.

Andy James, owner of Ye Olde Curiosity Shop, to which John Williams and members of his family have sold carvings for decades, said he is usually supportive of the police, but that their conduct in this case sounds “a little excessive.”

The video of the fate of Mr. Williams, whom he knew for about 30 years, was hard to watch, he said.

And it also leaves questions unanswered.

“It seems clear he was given some kind of warnings. That’s as far as it goes,” he said.

The matter is the talk of Seattle, he said. “When the subject comes up in a group of friends – yeah, a lot of people know about it.”

Brennan Clarke is Special to The Globe and Mail

 

[ddrew]

"The Seattle Police Department’s firearms review board as well as the city’s police chief, John Diaz, concluded in October that the shooting was not justified, The Seattle Times has reported."

It's time to bring back public hangings, I'll fly out to watch if it happens.

 

[Applesauce]

The cop was supposed to be an officer of the people, and he wrongfully took the life of an innocent man. This bastards punishment should be the death penalty.