Organics in small containers?

[thesloppy]

I've heard people suggest that using solid organic nutrients and soil in a small container won't work properly, as there isn't enough space for the soil and bacteria to properly work together. Anybody got any info/experience to confirm or contradict? Conversely, anybody got any nute/medium tips for small containers, would liquid nutes work better in the smaller pots?

For the record, I grow SoG ghetto-style in 2-liter containers, under 250w and 400w HPS, with soil. I've had what I consider pretty decent results, considering my environment and experience, and I've fooled around with nutes and medium to some extent, trying to stick with soil and organics, but I think I'm ready to try and dial things in more effectively, and would appreciate and help. Thanks in advance! I'm gonna probe the coco forum as well, for curiosity's sake.

 

[VerdantGreen]

hard to do, the roots need to be in contact with soil and not each other. with sog you may do ok by flowering almost straight from rooted clone, or vegging a little in a much smaller container and then transplanting to your 2l pot when you flip them.

but generally with organics you get many many less problems with bigger pots, or plants that arent allowed to get rootbound.

similar discussion here
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=193505

VG

 

[thesloppy]

Thanks for the quick reply and the link!

 

[Yankee Grower]

I've heard people suggest that using solid organic nutrients and soil in a small container won't work properly, as there isn't enough space for the soil and bacteria to properly work together. Anybody got any info/experience to confirm or contradict?

Not true really. Here's a 4' tall plant grown in a 5" pot. Doesn't look rootbound to me...lol. Most everything was built into the mix including layers and spikes. 'Sticky sides' also work well. This dude did use a few tea leftovers for the plant below. The dude grows like this all the time. Concentrated nute areas work fine if used properly. In fact I think the proper use of dry/solid nutes in containers can help you grow bigger plants in smaller containers.

Also have heard some say using spikes outdoors has helped increase their yields.

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Coco based mediums work well in small pots. I go with LC's#1 in 2 litre pots.

I am having good success with the hanging basket type pot with a small res and media wick inbuilt. That way you can top feed or just top up the res from the bottom.

I also use 2 litre square pots in trays and mostly bottom feed. You will get less root bound issues with the coco.

The organic side of things does well just choose the best coco that comes pre-buffered for no cal/mag issues.

Good luck

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Lordy thats a nice plant^^^! Thats outdoors? Outdoors is much easier to get big plants i have found...

 

[VerdantGreen]

Nice plant YG, but males will make flowers and pollen in a cup of water. i think it would be much harder getting a female plant to grow like that in the same pot...

 

[Yankee Grower]

Lordy thats a nice plant^^^! Thats outdoors? Outdoors is much easier to get big plants i have found...

Indoors. This guy also built a 10 gallon pot in spring, put a small clone in it, and brought it full term to mid October with nothing else but a few bacterial/fungal teas. I laughed when he said he would do it but he just smiled...lol.

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Ahh its a male. I just got up and didnt look too hard.

I had some plants indoors last season that were struggling and took them outside to finish up. They were in same size pots and once outside for a week or so took off like rockets...

Some i transplanted into 24litre pots struggled to fill the space and yielded much less. Its all about finding the right balance.

 

[thesloppy]

Wow, wonderful pic YG, my ladies certainly don't look anything like that, in terms of size. Any further info on the recipes used?

 

[B. Friendly]

Purple Kush in 2gallon thin pots so it's like 1.5 gallons really

No problems, they vegged at nearly an 1.5inches of daily growth

Best start with this strain I have had in years

 

[Yankee Grower]

Ahh its a male.

Yeah so this method of growing is not valid I guess...lol. Yeah I hear that, and also what VG posted, but lets get real...for sure a fem won't perform like that but still an example of what is possible. So maybe a 4' tall fem in a 1 gallon pot? How about a 2 gallon pot?

but males will make flowers and pollen in a cup of water

Seriously dude...can you grow a male like that in a cup of water? I guess that's called hydro. Yeah I've finished flowering males in a cup of water but the notion that it's better to grow organics in a larger pot to help eliminate problems is kind of lame. I used to think that based on my experience but have been shown otherwise.

Going back to the OP...

I've heard people suggest that using solid organic nutrients and soil in a small container won't work properly

Not true.

 

[redneck shogun]

Yankee Grower: I may be a layman but I tend to not accept something without a little science to back it up. Your assertion would violate a common belief that a root-bound plant will perform poorly compared to one that is not. Can you please explain, thanks.

 

[Tilt]

I do organics in small containers 32oz of soil at the most. I have had a little success. I can tell you that water only mixes run out of nutes pretty quick If you make your soil hotter you run the risk of burning the young small plants. So my current strategy is to use an amended soil mix like lc's water only. I then feed them lightly. Water technique soil type, and pot type can help overcome root binding. I have used jobes organic spikes, teas, earth juice bloom, and cal mag. cal mag deficiency is what raises its ugly head the most withn me.

BTW this is my own experience in my first year of growing so take it with a grain of salt. There are much more experienced organic growers on here. Most of them use the biggest container they can get away with and either tried and rejected small containers or avoided them all together. I am committed to making them work for me though.....

 

[VerdantGreen]

Yeah so this method of growing is not valid I guess...lol. Yeah I hear that, and also what VG posted, but lets get real...for sure a fem won't perform like that but still an example of what is possible. So maybe a 4' tall fem in a 1 gallon pot? How about a 2 gallon pot?

hi YG, 1 gallon is more than twice the size of the pots used by the OP, and 2 gallons is 4 times the size. ive grown nice plants in 1 gallon pots - up to 5' tall - but found the pot size to be the limiting factor in the grow. i find plants senesce early, although you can still get up to and ounce, more outside, in a 1 gallon container, the plants never look as happy as the ones in the bigger contsainers.
i find any natural system that is maintained by an 'equilibrium' will be less stable the smaller it is. it works the same for fishtanks. things can change very rapidly...

Seriously dude...can you grow a male like that in a cup of water? I guess that's called hydro. Yeah I've finished flowering males in a cup of water

no i cant grow a male like that in a cup of water, which is why i didnt make any such claim, i merely observed that males will flower and make pollen in a cup of water.
cannabis is genetically programmed to more likely become male if the seedling taproot is interupted before 4" deep - because male plants can be much more successful with less nutrition.

but the notion that it's better to grow organics in a larger pot to help eliminate problems is kind of lame.

sorry if you think my advice is lame, but i stick by it. if you go back to the second post i explained how i thought small pot size might be mitigated with organic soil - but i would still advise anyone to use as bigger pots as they can manage in their space. for me limiting plant size by using small pots is less preferable to using bigger pots and limiting plant size by some kind of training.

i would also agree with SS that coco may be a better medium to use in small pots.

I used to think that based on my experience but have been shown otherwise.

not sure what to say about that

VG

 

[thesloppy]

Thanks for the tips again, I think I'll run at least a test batch of coco, since it won't require very much drastic/permanent change to my technique. I'm also considering an interesting alternative technique, which is using a single ~5 gallon air-pot, but dividing the insides into 8 or so 'pods' for SoG (with the bottom inch or less shared for even drainage). Similar footprint and plant count to my current approach described above, but I'm wondering if the shared root space might allow the organics/bacteria to thrive as if they were in a larger single container.

Think that would have any effect?

 

[SupraSPL]

I am another one committed to small containers (1.5L) for organic soil grows. Not only do I have a small space to work with but I am trying to explore as many genetics as possible in the shortest time possible. The best I have come up with yet is 10g/liter but I think there is room for improvement there.

The bottom line is true living organics definitely does work in small containers. The soil can smell more than the plants sometimes. White fungus blooms are not uncommon on the soil surface. Root and canopy growth very vigorous and healthy. As someone mentioned earlier potting up strategically can help.

 

[thesloppy]

Wow, I think 10g/liter is doing pretty good with little guys (though I'm judging without knowing you're lighting). I'm happy when I can pull 7g dried out of each similar pot I've got..but that's with a 250w hps for whatever it's worth, and as you noted it's very strain specific...I've had a couple strains that I was able to average around 14g per pot, but I eventually got rid of 'em for other reasons.

Seems finding the perfect match of strain/pot size is another important step for maximizing SoG yield, as some strains will get similar yields out of pots half/double the size, and you could be wasting space/yield accordingly.

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

I would advise against sharing a pot and root space. I tried this before and one plant thrived and choked the other one out... but it maybe different with small clones in a big pot.

My plants in the 2 litre round pot with the medium wick are very healthy plants and have almost finished.

Organics in smaller pots is always trickier. If you have a look around the coco forum you will see some ridiculously large plant in small containers... but thats mineral nutes.

 

[Chief Rbud]

putting multiple plants in a container will work fine but i wouldn't separate the root zones, let them grow all together. for examples of this look at my signatures, last grow i had 6 plants in an 18 gallon tote, and the time before that i had 2. this grow i have 8 plants in 1 15 gallon tote and 7 in the other. i have never had problems with one plant overgrowing the others. i simply train that plant into its footprint. but they were kind of small to begin with. i believe i will go with 4-5 plants/tote a bit bushier and much taller with about 8-10 main branches per plant next time rather than 8 small plants with 4 main branches.