Soil-less Organics with Professor Matt Rize

[Yankee Grower]

now can we get back to learning something...like the microbes need surface area to attach to...isn't that what the ewc provides...

Well...that statement probably needs some clarification but basically they need a home but would like CT Guy's or Microbe Man's input on how that all works in a water enviro like a tea. I kind of know how it works in an enviro like using rockwool, pure salts like GH and 'smooth' plastic trays and res's...far from sterile.

 

[VerdantGreen]

on the subject of subforums, i would say that there is a much bigger difference between indoor and outdoor organics, or pot culture organics and bed/open ground/HUGE pot organics, than there is between soil and soil-less. most of us are somewhere inbetween.

forum dynamics are a strange thing, sometimes by making something more specific you reduce the general exposure it gets to both expert contribution and learning. people are very habitual about what they click on.

VG

 

[Yankee Grower]

Agreed with the second part, not the first part. Seems that many would disagree with you in terms of what I am good at. My patients are the real judges. We can respectfully agree to disagree.

Your growing 'knowledge' kind of sucks and that's obvious. Most of the herb on the market is absolute garbage so pretty easy to do better. I don't smoke anything anymore unless I grow it or from a few 'select' friends. I used to grow GH 3 part and peeps raved about it but it was actually still garbage IMO. That just showed me how much crap is out there...yuck...and also showed me how great genetics shines through. Yeah using bottled organic nutes in virtually ANY medium will put you near the top regarding quality. I mean just read the label and no need to be an 'expert'...lol.

 

[vonforne]

Hey! How about I make this thread a stickie!!

 

[CT Guy]

thank heavens the arguing is over, now can we get back to learning something...like the microbes need surface area to attach to...isn't that what the ewc provides...
Professor, can you continue with the lecture, or is the hall monitor disturbing you? (JUST JOKING WIT YA!!!):

The main benefit of the EWC is the beneficial microbes and nutrients IMHO. Microbes do need surface area to attach to, but you can get this in any medium whether it's peat, coco, etc....Some even use beneficial bacterias in hydro, as they will attach/form glues on the roots.

ACT or EWC or any biological source is used to re-vitalize or inoculate your medium with the microbes that in turn process the organic fertilizers you add, making them plant-available.

 

[Matt Rize]

Great Post!

Great Post!

on the subject of subforums, i would say that there is a much bigger difference between indoor and outdoor organics, or pot culture organics and bed/open ground/HUGE pot organics, than there is between soil and soil-less. most of us are somewhere inbetween.

forum dynamics are a strange thing, sometimes by making something more specific you reduce the general exposure it gets to both expert contribution and learning. people are very habitual about what they click on.

VG

Thanks. While the smart people are here I want to "spurr" (hehe) a discussion about Cannabinoid level in flowers and bubble hash. Matt Rize test results for Blackberry Kush (notoriously weak variety):

blackberry kush flower %15.44 THC %0.23CBD %0.05CBN

blackberry kush full melt%52.64THC %01.27CBD %0.33CBN

I have to walk the dog (is it really afternoon already, eff) but I wanted to point out that I am on the only one posting actual data about how "bomb" their herb is.

I also want to point out (I'll post the math in a few). That my bubble has higher (relative to THC) levels of CBD and CBN, relative to the flowers. I believe this may be the case because my hash was 45 to 160 microns, and that the larger trichomes contain more CBD/CBN than the smaller trichomes... this stuff is surely investigated somewhere?

 

[Matt Rize]

Everyone Please Plus Rep for CT!

Everyone Please Plus Rep for CT!

The main benefit of the EWC is the beneficial microbes and nutrients IMHO. Microbes do need surface area to attach to, but you can get this in any medium whether it's peat, coco, etc....Some even use beneficial bacterias in hydro, as they will attach/form glues on the roots.

But surely not all surface areas are created equal. Isn't spurr doing a test on medias and the associated life RIGHT NOW?

ACT or EWC or any biological source is used to re-vitalize or inoculate your medium with the microbes that in turn process the organic fertilizers you add, making them plant-available.

I do lots of that. We won't go there right now

Hey CT: Are there possible negatives to applying biological inoculants to an established healthy rhizosphere? (other than being wasteful obviously)

 

[GrinStick]

more on that later .......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... **alarm sounds***.....................................let's get on with it.

 

[CT Guy]

But surely not all surface areas are created equal. Isn't spurr doing a test on medias and the associated life RIGHT NOW?



I do lots of that. We won't go there right now

Hey CT: Are there possible negatives to applying biological inoculants to an established healthy rhizosphere? (other than being wasteful obviously)

1. Why is this a sticky? Really, Vonforne???? Thought you were joking...

2. I think there could be some negatives associated with commercial biological inoculants to a healthy rhizosphere, but in general I think it would show little to no impact. One example that springs to mind is how trichoderma can inhibit mycorrhizal colonization. However, I'm sure MM and others have more knowledge on the subject. With ACT, there's no real detrimental effect, as any extra microbes would just die or go dormant or become food resources for other microbes. I think the biggest issue would be adding high levels of specific species which could possibly throw a healthy system out of whack. Though I'm just speculating...

 

[Matt Rize]

I spelled out the lesson plan

I spelled out the lesson plan

more on that later...

And the whole point of my first two posts (which have been overshadowed by arguing), was to lay out the ideas.

3) And how does soil-less media affect beneficial soil life and the soil-food-web (organics)?
then...
4) What is molasses?
5) What are root exudates?
6) What does molasses do in a soil-less media?
7) Possible downside to using molasses...?
8) Do you use molasses during the flush?

I put this all out there so the other, more learned, folks out here could contribute and show me up, as this is not new. Instead we argued and then came back together, I had some posts removed, others stayed. These other points are not rocket science.

 

[Matt Rize]

Speculations are Welcome!

Speculations are Welcome!

2. I think there could be some negatives associated with commercial biological inoculants to a healthy rhizosphere, but in general I think it would show little to no impact. One example that springs to mind is how trichoderma can inhibit mycorrhizal colonization. However, I'm sure MM and others have more knowledge on the subject. With ACT, there's no real detrimental effect, as any extra microbes would just die or go dormant or become food resources for other microbes. I think the biggest issue would be adding high levels of specific species which could possibly throw a healthy system out of whack. Though I'm just speculating...

Thanks for responding.

My grow store has just begun carrying a "new" inoculant, free samples anyone?
It is called VermaPlex: Microbial Soil Inoculant. It has soil directions, foliar directions, and hydro directions. Skeptical... of course. Turn down a free sample of some inoculant... never

I'd post the link, but yall can find it... not sure anymore if it is worth it for me to post links.

 

[vonforne]

I'd post the link, but yall can find it... not sure anymore if it is worth it for me to post links.

Google works wonders. You are correct, links are a No-NO

 

[Yankee Grower]

My grow store has just begun carrying a "new" inoculant, free samples anyone?

It is called VermaPlex: Microbial Soil Inoculant. It has soil directions, foliar directions, and hydro directions. Skeptical... of course. Turn down a free sample of some inoculant... never

I'd post the link, but yall can find it... not sure anymore if it is worth it for me to post links.

D'oh, D'oh! and more D'oh!

'My grow store'...the pic becomes clearer!

 

[Microbeman]

1. Why is this a sticky? Really, Vonforne???? Thought you were joking...

2. I think there could be some negatives associated with commercial biological inoculants to a healthy rhizosphere, but in general I think it would show little to no impact. One example that springs to mind is how trichoderma can inhibit mycorrhizal colonization. However, I'm sure MM and others have more knowledge on the subject. With ACT, there's no real detrimental effect, as any extra microbes would just die or go dormant or become food resources for other microbes. I think the biggest issue would be adding high levels of specific species which could possibly throw a healthy system out of whack. Though I'm just speculating...

CT Guy, you've pretty much nailed it. Of course one could over-water by using tea too often. As long as ACT is microbially balanced I know of no downside to using it often.

On another subject, regarding the amount of 'added' nutrients required by plants in comparison to microbial nutrients existent in healthy soil, I'd like to remind folks to consider a forest and the amount of bulk (mass) added to it each growing season compared to the miniscule amount of organic matter added each season by falling leaves and wood. This can only occurr through the efficient use of energy delivered by soil microorganisms, the sun and rain.

This mass put on by a forest dwarfs that put on by countless corn and wheat fields. Horticultural scientists should be researching this aspect as a means to feed the hungry of the world. Unforunately there is not as much money in it as genetic modification, roundup and packaged fertilizers.

 

[Matt Rize]

OMG you guys. MY GROW STORE = THE ONE I SHOP AT

OMG you guys. MY GROW STORE = THE ONE I SHOP AT

D'oh, D'oh! and more D'oh!

'My grow store'...the pic becomes clearer!

REALLY GETTING ANNOYED with these assumptions. I'm a bum, if I had a grow store do you think I'd be here all the time???? Really dude? I get paid to teach, and I quit my job at the dispensary long time now. That is it. Cracking me up tho... I needed that. When you make assumptions you only end up... you know the rest

 

[Matt Rize]

First part yes, Second part mostly

First part yes, Second part mostly

CT Guy, you've pretty much nailed it. Of course one could over-water by using tea too often. As long as ACT is microbially balanced I know of no downside to using it often.

Agreed, thanks for the info both of you. Don't over-water folks, that never improves things.

On another subject, regarding the amount of 'added' nutrients required by plants in comparison to microbial nutrients existent in healthy soil, I'd like to remind folks to consider a forest and the amount of bulk (mass) added to it each growing season compared to the miniscule amount of organic matter added each season by falling leaves and wood. This can only occurr through the efficient use of energy delivered by soil microorganisms, the sun and rain.

This mass put on by a forest dwarfs that put on by countless corn and wheat fields. Horticultural scientists should be researching this aspect as a means to feed the hungry of the world. Unforunately there is not as much money in it as genetic modification, roundup and packaged fertilizers.

We need to keep in mind that the forests of the world vary considerably. A dwarf alpine forest is VERY different than a tropical rain forest, in terms of soil composition, and pretty much everything else. And forests do not dominate all landscapes, there are marshes, bogs, deserts, grasslands, ect. The soils are different in all of these places. And many of us are not growing in anything close to a true soil, but a soil-less organic media, which is different than all of these natural soils. Not better, just different.

 

[MrFista]

Hilarious. Like a self flagellating pinata.

 

[Microbeman]

Agreed, thanks for the info both of you. Don't over-water folks, that never improves things.



We need to keep in mind that the forests of the world vary considerably. A dwarf alpine forest is VERY different than a tropical rain forest, in terms of soil composition, and pretty much everything else. And forests do not dominate all landscapes, there are marshes, bogs, deserts, grasslands, ect. The soils are different in all of these places. And many of us are not growing in anything close to a true soil, but a soil-less organic media, which is different than all of these natural soils. Not better, just different.

I do hope everyone does not miss the point totally as you have.

 

[Matt Rize]

got your point, wanted to add

got your point, wanted to add

I do hope everyone does not miss the point totally as you have.

got your point, wanted to add some info about forests and soils.
thx for not being disrespectful.

 

[Microbeman]

got your point, wanted to add some info about forests and soils.
thx for not being disrespectful.

good.