Decarboxylation

[generalgrievous]

I use 315 for 5 min for tincture extracted in 95% everclear... it's strong. Making a batch today and thinking of using 250 for 27 min. Gonna take some oven temp experimentation... keepin that little bastard dialed in for 5 min is hard...

GW... do you think this can improve an already kick ass green dragon... ? Perhaps i've been toasting off some good components...

 

[generalgrievous]

Thought i would add... 200 for 1 hour did not work...

 

[Gray Wolf]

I use 315 for 5 min for tincture extracted in 95% everclear... it's strong. Making a batch today and thinking of using 250 for 27 min. Gonna take some oven temp experimentation... keepin that little bastard dialed in for 5 min is hard...

GW... do you think this can improve an already kick ass green dragon... ? Perhaps i've been toasting off some good components...

I am far from an expert, but it only takes one trial to tell if you can improve on your good thing.

It looks to me like the 252F and the 290F curves are the most efficient, and I prefer to use the lowest temperature possible, to avoid cooking off the boiling point turpenoids and minimize THC to CBN converrsion.

 

[generalgrievous]

Thought i was an expert after my last green dragon tincture. Here i go experimenting again... you're absolutely right about a trial... gonna opt for the higher temp of 290 for slightly less than 7 min, i'm sure some decarb happens during the 20 min/170° extraction.

This temp and time frame is closer to what i'm successful with and i can do 250 next time if my green dragon is stronger this time...

I'll chime in with my results in case anyones interested...

 

[kuk]

this threads great it should be pinned with grey wolfs graph of the cooking times and temperatures for optimum thc decarboxylization
im interested ggrivious

im sure that graph was done with some kind of science, so following the graph to see if you get more potency than your decarb process currently used

what was the difference?

 

[generalgrievous]

im interested grievous...what was the difference?

200 did not work well... super mellow body high in the background. i have quick reed thermometer in my oven and manually fire the elements to keep it dialed in... a 15 degree fluctuation is as tight as i can keep it...

the 300-315 for 5 min. range seems to work the best so far... this was with 3.5g A grade nugs, extracted in 3 oz. evercleer @ 95%... reduced to 2 oz. dosing for that batch was 1/4 tsp... mellow body high, 1/2 tsp... kick ass body high and a heady stone as well, 3/4 tsp... dick in the dirt to overwhelming, sipping consistently in water throughout the work shift... good high working high, peaceful.

I didn't get to my batch last night so im gonna go for it now using about 7g. nugs and 4oz. 95%....

 

[kuk]

doing a quick decarb with nugs may be better than a slower one grievous but maybe not optimal with hash,

how condensed was that tincture you made? (ie 1ml = 0.25g, or something?)

also what was in the tincture blend, just reduced everclear ? (2oz?) isnt that very very, very harsh for throat and mouth (95% alcohol tincture) im guessing you have something else in there

how many doses did 3.5g provide you with?

i under decarb'd my hash today a little bit, got to stop being so scared to cook it properly, its good for it!

 

[Xare]

Instead of just boiling in water, use a pressure cooker.

A pressure cooker raises the boiling temperature of water.

At 15 PSI the boiling point of water is 122 °C (252 °F) funny that corresponds to a line on the graph...

27 min in the pressure cooker

 

[kuk]

hi grey wolf et all..

Well, despite what the graph may tell you, a flattened out 3-4g lump of hash flattened out by finger and thumb to tiny cookie, in the oven at 135 for 20 min is a good temp (maybe best for approx 20 minutes)

cheers

 

[generalgrievous]

how condensed was that tincture you made? (ie 1ml = 0.25g, or something?)

also what was in the tincture blend, just reduced everclear ? (2oz?) isnt that very very, very harsh for throat and mouth (95% alcohol tincture) im guessing you have something else in there

how many doses did 3.5g provide you with?

i under decarb'd my hash today a little bit, got to stop being so scared to cook it properly, its good for it!

The math for how condensed it is eludes me at the moment... gonna think on that.

Ended up doing 2 batches last night... the first was 8g in 4 oz 95%... was under the impression i fuked this one up... kept the temp from 300° - 290° for he first 5 min than had spike to 325°… didn't tweak the oven properly... time was 6:30, had a larger poof of vapor than i feel comfortable with... and the toasty burnt smell that says 'too much'... extracted for 20 min, reduced down to 1.5 oz.

The second batch was 3.5g... nailed the temp at 290 for 7 min... looked and smelled, what i've been calling perfect and making strong dragon with... extracted for 20 min, reduced to 1.3oz. I think should've wrote it down. lol

The first batch i was determined to spill... cuz i did, twice. First i gave half to a friend with a serious back injury, and had 1 tsp in a beer... thought i took it too far, boy was wrong. My tolerance is as high as possible... i'm an extreme user. I was so uncomfortably high it reminded of high school... only double dosed cuz i thought i blew it...

I haven't tried the second batch... as far as dosing it's typically ¼tsp...mellow, ½tsp body and head...good dose, ⅓tsp heavy body high... dick in the dirt stoned... i like this dose.

I take it in a beer... sets in fast... water or juice... sets in slow. Damn good green dragon...

3.5g gives me between 1 and 2 oz's... 3-6 tsp at ¼ - ¾ per dose... depending...

After how insanely high i was last night i'm thinking maybe that poof of vapor and burnt/toasty smell are what's left after the carboxyl group leaves and perhaps, it's a sign of proper decarb... this would be right on point with master wu's proven technique...

Back to research and development it would seem.

Made 1 lb of budder out of 3 z's trim last night... time to look in the fridge...

 

[couchlockd]

hey all wonderfully informative thread here. it rocks.

one thing though, and it might make some mad for me asking this, but what the heck is de-carb. all about, is it just the heating of plant mater (I.E.-buds, trim) prior to extraction, or scfe extraction or solvent extraction, to make alot of the "Un-converted" thcv or thca to the converted highly psycoactive form, THC??

i just recently (10 days ago) started making butane honey oil (honey bee xtractor) oil. and i dont know should i have de-carb'd the buds and trim first.

after all my SCFE BHO oil was made i got super paraniod about the little bubbles in it thinking they were "butane bubbles" i got my 2 fl.oz far of frehy made bho, and took a blow dryer to it. i was lightly heating it (spray painting moion, I.E.=sweeping back and forth) on high, untill the oil started to lightly "boil"

i kept it at the "boil" by backing the blow dryer away and then closer to regulate the "boil" to a nice steady simmer.

heres the big question: did i un-knowingly de-carb my BHO oil, and if i did, that would make the oil orally active?

also, sublingual (oral) tinctures will not work unless de-card'd??

so in short the act of "baking" or de-carb'ing makes the starting material 2x to 3x more potent or psycoactive??

how did i miss this information or never even heard of it till right now, blows me away, as i tend to pride myself in being more "up to date" than most around me here were i llive

 

[miaumiau]

I for myself did, like you, never heared about decarboxylation in context with thc(a)...

decarboxylation , in general, is nothing more than a chemical reaction where co2 (carbon dioxide) will split off...


you can use your oil without decarbing, but if you do it, it will be more active and yes, the product will be more potent! (for oral use)

 

[jump117]

heres the big question: did i un-knowingly de-carb my BHO oil, ??

It is very possible, release of bubbles accompanies decarboxylation.
Also carbon dioxide emissions by decarboxylation is accompanied by active emissions of terpenes,
which is particularly noticeable when heating the plant material in the oven before extraction.

 

[Trichgnomes]

Instead of just boiling in water, use a pressure cooker.

A pressure cooker raises the boiling temperature of water.

At 15 PSI the boiling point of water is 122 °C (252 °F) funny that corresponds to a line on the graph...

27 min in the pressure cooker

Great idea, I will definitely use a pressure cooker next time I decarb. I tried my first oil based tincture yesterday, and the results were very impressive. However I did in my oven on a Pyrex, and had to sacrifice some to the side of the pie plate.

Everything I could salvage from the pie dish I transferred to a jam sized ball jar, and added some coconut oil. I closed the lid, put in some boiling water for a minute or two and mixed it around.

I then added to a dropper bottle. I was surprised that even in cold weather it stayed flowing most of the time, and if it ever gels up, one can just run it under some warm water, or put it in front of your car's heat vents.

Next time I will use the other ingredients of the holy announcing oil, but just the BHO and Coconut oil was quite strong



Do you think mason jars will withstand the temp in a pressure cooker?

 

[Gray Wolf]

Great idea, I will definitely use a pressure cooker next time I decarb. I tried my first oil based tincture yesterday, and the results were very impressive. However I did in my oven on a Pyrex, and had to sacrifice some to the side of the pie plate.

Everything I could salvage from the pie dish I transferred to a jam sized ball jar, and added some coconut oil. I closed the lid, put in some boiling water for a minute or two and mixed it around.

I then added to a dropper bottle. I was surprised that even in cold weather it stayed flowing most of the time, and if it ever gels up, one can just run it under some warm water, or put it in front of your car's heat vents.

Next time I will use the other ingredients of the holy announcing oil, but just the BHO and Coconut oil was quite strong



Do you think mason jars will withstand the temp in a pressure cooker?

As long as you put them in cold, the jars don't care what the temperature gets up to. It is the rapid expansion from thermal shock that cracks them.

I've knocked the bottoms out of a few putting them in too hot. Ended up making an unintended topical out of the canola oil bath.

 

[Yankee Grower]

Here's a recipe I used to post many years ago when this question came up. It's from VICS...The Vancouver Island Compassion Society and pretty sure they had access to an HPLC back then. Don't think it was a GC Mass Spec but can't remember really...

VICS Cannamist/Tincture Recipe
and Instructions on How to Convert THCA Into THC:

A tincture is an alcohol-base solution of a non-volatile medicine (in this case cannabis). In this case alcohol is not only the solvent used to separate cannabinoids from the plant matter, it is what makes this type of application (particularly in fine-mist form) more bio-available and therefore effective.

In whole-plant cannabis, THC content is expressed as THCA (tetrahydrocannabolic acid) prior to decarboxilation into THC, which takes place when cannabis is heated during cooking, and smoked or vaporized ingestion. THCA is a mild analgesic and anti-inflammatory but does not have good affinity with our CB1 receptors, so in order to make a THC-rich tincture that has many of the same therapeutic effects as smoked ingestion (including rapid absorption, quick relief and ease of self-titration), we must convert the THCA in the plant matter into THC prior to extracting it through an alcohol soak.

Supplies:
Converted cannabis
Alcohol (50% is preferred, but 40% vodka works just fine)
Organic mint
Organic honey
Large mason jar, x 2
Cheesecloth or fine mesh sieve
Dry heat conversion of THCA into THC:
-Preheat oven to 325°F (160°C) exactly (use an oven thermometer to be sure).
-Spread cannabis leaf or bud in a thin, 1 inch (2.5 cm) layer on a clean cookie sheet.
-Put in the oven until the first of smoke or 5 minutes, whichever is first, remove, and transfer to glass or ceramic container to cool.

Tincture/Cannamist Recipe:
-Pack a mason jar loosely but completely with converted cannabis product.
-Add alcohol until the jar is full.
-Seal, shake and put in a dark, cool place.
-After week 1, strain mixture through cheesecloth or fine mesh sieve and add to another mason jar packed with converted cannabis and a few sprigs of fresh organic mint.
-After week 2, strain mixture through cheesecloth or fine mesh sieve into mason jar.
-Add organic honey to taste.
-Shake/mix and then decant into bottles fitted with fine mist spray tops.

Dosage:
Initial Dosage: Spray two times on the inside of the cheek, and wait 30 seconds before swallowing. Wait ten minutes and if desired effect has not been reached, repeat on the opposite cheek. Wait ten minutes, and repeat until desired effect is achieved. Dosage will vary between users, but should remain fairly constant once established.

Effect will last for between 1-2 hours. Repeat use as needed.
If you feel dizzy or disoriented, immediately discontinue use. Do not operate heavy machinery or drive during use of this product.

 

[generalgrievous]

325° exactly for 5 min... remove at first smoke or 5 min...

That's right on par with master wu's proven recipe as well as my 2 strongest batches... the smoke and toasty smell make it seem too far... like it's THC burning off, but at 325°, how could it be?

next batch i have to sample did not go that far... stayed around 300°... i have a very light cannabis using, non-smoking, pain med patient sampling both batches as well...

 

[Yankee Grower]

use an oven thermometer to be sure

One thing important I got from the whole Cannamist thing is to get a separate thermometer as the dial on the stove is not that accurate.

 

[kuk]

Im having fun and success decarboxylating hash in the oven, it appears to work best at around 130-135 celsius for 20 minutes, but 15 and25 seem to be virtually the same.

The high is nice, 1g gets you very stoned about 1.5 hours after sprinkling in hot chocolate or coffee

2.5g gets you pretty wrecked

1/2g is very nice

hash from tosh, good quality not anywhere near best

trying to find the cameras computer cable to post pics!

 

[generalgrievous]

One thing important I got from the whole Cannamist thing is to get a separate thermometer as the dial on the stove is not that accurate.

Absolutely... my oven set at 225° peaks st 350° in reality